Children's rights in the age of the Coronavirus : Interview with Marc HILGER

Presenter: Hello from Klagemauertv. Today we are welcoming Mr. Marc Hilger in our (television) studio. Hello, Mr. Hilger.Show more

MH: Hello

Presenter: Thank you very much for answering a few questions on how you, as a teacher, are living in the current day-to-day situation. Perhaps you would like to introduce yourself before we start the interview.

MH: My name is Marc Hilger, I am 52 years old, I have two children and I have worked as a teacher in a school for almost 30 years. Over the years, I have been concerned about the needs of children and I have always tried to find solutions so that children enjoy coming to school, that they learn well and, above all, that children with special needs find their place among other children at school. For many years, I have been working on children's rights and have collaborated with foreign experts to ensure that children's rights are respected in schools. I am also an ambassador for the Center for Civic Education for child rights, which is a ministerial service that promotes civic education for children. I am currently active in a movement called FAIR, which advocates for children and the covid measures that have been and are being taken. We defend the respect, the individuality, the common good and the freedom of children. I myself am privately involved in this movement which also works in connection with other movements and associations. We are a network here in Luxembourg and we also work with associations in foreign countries. We have about 2 000 members here in Luxembourg, mainly parents, grandparents, teachers and educators.

Presenter: Thank you very much. We are all affected by the current situation and there are also drastic changes in the daily life of children. You've been through a lot, then you've done quite a bit of research which you have passed on to your superiors. What motivated you to take steps in this direction, because I think it takes courage, conviction and determination to have a contrary voice heard on this subject?

MH: Well, I realized quite early the consequences that were generated by measures like masks and distancing, and that revolted me because I saw that it was not good for children, and that it disrupted communication between children and adults. And then I tried to find out what could be done because I received similar testimonies from other colleagues who said that it was not good for a lot of children. Children reported their anxiety to school and we talked a lot about it, and many colleagues, teachers and educators found that these guidelines were not good for the children. Short moments of anxiety are normal, there is nothing to worry about, but if the children go into persistent existential anxiety and the parents are also anxious, the situation will become very dangerous and will have an impact on children's development and their future, and that outraged me because I thought to myself that even if the situation is bad, it is not acceptable that we put our children in such a precarious situation. And then quite early on, I looked for legal options and for something to do about it. I then contacted a lawyer who told me what I could do as a public official, and I acted accordingly.

Presenter: What steps have you taken and what was the reaction of the politicians?

MH: I turned to the network of teachers and educators I was in contact with and said: "Shouldn't we all together ask the minister what we can do to prevent the children from finding themselves in this frightening situation where their natural needs are no longer met, such as contact with other children, contact with the teacher, playing together and playing in mixed groups, playing in lessons, recreation, gymnastics, ... ". Suddenly all of this was restricted. Then this group of a dozen teachers and educators gradually grew and led into a movement that was joined by more and more teachers, educators, parents, then grandparents, and at one point we said that it was time to make ourselves known and ask our questions. We also had contacts with parents who had already asked their questions to the Minister: "Why this current situation? Give us the evidence, tell us who will take responsibility for the damage caused by these Covid measures, because it is very clear that we are oppressing the needs of children, there is prejudice. "We then did some research and found that the masks themselves contained carcinogenic chemicals. We tried to learn as much as possible about the mask's physical and mental effects and concluded that it needed to be questioned. We felt that it was justified to ask embarrassing questions, and in the event that we received satisfactory answers, then we would be ok with the situation.

We did this in January 2020 through an open letter, because we felt that it was also important to inform the public so that they also knew what we thought, and that a public debate could come to terms with the question of the mask. At that point, the question asked was about the mask, the responsibility for all these decisions and who was making them because we felt that these measures were disproportionate. In the meantime, there have been studies that have shown that containment measures do not work, I quote John Ioannidis, one of the most respectable researchers of our time, who has done relatively advanced studies and found the ineffectiveness of containment measures, masks included. Some researchers said that the mask does not stop a virus, a virus is so small that it goes through the mesh of a mask, and I’m not the one saying it, a researcher said that the virus goes through the mesh of the mask like flies pass through chicken wire. It is very clear, and even children know that. This is one example, but there are others that show that these measures are unfounded. Let me give you another example: children are said to be super-spreaders, that is to say that they are super-propagators of the virus, in other words, that they spread it on a large scale.

This study was published by Drosden, the chief virologist in Germany, who later retracted it. Meanwhile, numerous studies carried out in many countries repeatedly confirm that children only play a minimal role in this whole situation, that children are not great propagators, that children do not endanger teachers, and that if they are sick, the incidence is minimal. For example, a study was published in Sweden at the beginning of January. A study was done on two million children and of those two million children, there were no deaths, 15 were sick, in intensive care and then recovered. If we calculate the percentage of 15 sick children out of 2,000,000 children, we have to ask ourselves if these measures are proportionate ? Do we have to accept this great damage that children will suffer and the effects on our society, do we have to accept them ? We don't think so, unless someone proves us otherwise. We have tried to find studies that corroborate the effectiveness of the mask, we have not found any. We have asked experts to analyze the two studies carried out by the government following a parliamentary question from the ADR party, and they are not consistent. So we asked our political leaders once more: on what basis is the obligation to wear a mask enshrined in the law, and who will take responsibility for the damage caused?

Presenter: And how did the politicians react, was there a reaction?

MH: Well, the first letter was an open letter that triggered a storm but there was no concrete discussion. Only certain points of our argument were addressed, individual studies cited were selected and they presented them as indefensible, but in fact no discussion took place. We had no reaction from our minister nor from our parliamentarians, and part of the press was negative about us: how was it possible that teachers or educators dared send such an open letter? We just asked questions and didn't attack anyone, we were very correct and polite, we didn't attack anyone. It's true, we were still anonymous at that time because we didn't know either ... we were not yet a movement, nor an association, but we wanted to quickly use the press because we felt that all of these measures would continue to grow and that they had to be stopped. And that is why we said, since we are not a movement and no one wanted to run the risk of exposing themselves to hostilities, we just wanted to have a concrete discussion with our ministry, with our minister. Unfortunately, it didn’t happen. We sent the first letter at the end of January, as I said, in April it was the fourth letter, and finally the minister reacted to this fourth letter, and replied: We take note of your letter and we ask the Ministry of Health to undertake an analysis. Two days later, the requirement to wear a mask was passed into law, which we actually found very disrespectful, because if you question or have a problem with something, you cannot pass a law about it two days later. Well, no answer has reached us to date. In the meantime, we have sent a 5th letter to the Minister asking when we will get a response to our questions, but we have received no response. We then decided to contact the Ombudsman for the Rights of the Child because he also has a legal obligation, and now I would like to open a parenthesis.

In fact, the Ombudsman for the Rights of the Child should give his opinion on every law which is passed and which affects the rights of the child but that didn't happen either. So we went to see him and left him files full of testimonies because today, our movement has grown to such an extent that we have received many testimonies, mainly from parents, and grandparents of suffering children. The side effects of the masks that we predicted in the Spring turned out to be accurate and not only did cause physical damage, as some children have skin problems, others have inflammation in their mouths, some do not sleep well, have nightmares, other children no longer want to go to school, isolated children have passed out because they had difficulty breathing, etc, etc. I can give you a whole list of testimonials that we have received, also from other groups that we work with and that have received testimonies as well, so there are lots of them. As I said, we have given these testimonies to the Ombudsperson for the Rights of the Child asking him to pass them on to the political leaders and to see what will be done about it. Who takes responsibility for all this today and what steps are being taken to improve the situation of children?

Trauma suffered by children have also to be taken into account, I’m not the one saying this, but Franz Ruppert, a renowned German trauma researcher, who said in a publication: "The people who triggered wars are people who were traumatized in their childhood, and we currently have a generation of children who are traumatized. What will happen in 20, 30 years with these children, with this society? "What is the vision of the minister of education, of our government for the future, where do we want to go? Is this the brave new world we are seeing now that will remain in the future? In our opinion, these are very important questions which must be part of a public debate and not be decided by a group of politicians, and this is the reason why normal citizens stand up, and if the politicians do not take care about it, the citizens will. I therefore make a sincere appeal to our government to take the grievances of these people seriously, to sit down with them around a table to find a modus vivendi ... how to live together and how to improve the situation of our children.

Presenter: Yes, the Minister of Education held a press conference in which he announced that children as a whole are not well, that there is a 15% increase in children having thoughts of suicide, and that the psychic distress has increased tremendously, that's what he said himself. What do you think of the solutions that have been suggested?

MH: First of all, we are very happy that the minister admitted in February that many children are not doing well. I think that when we know that the number of children who have suicidal thoughts has increased by 15%, when we know that we have to sort out psychiatry for adolescents and children, whereas we were talking about a possible sorting in the clinics a year ago ... now the sorting is done in psychiatry, but we do not hear any of this in the media, is this less important? I find this very serious as far as our children are concerned, because a lot of them are not doing well, and it seems that it goes unnoticed ... At least, the minister has realized it, and we are grateful to him for that, he has proposed measures and has put them into practice.

In particular, he distributed board games in schools and in relay houses so that we can play with the children. But in our opinion, it does not go to the heart of the problem because the heart of the problem is quite simply the mask, it does not hold because there is quite simply a lack of proof, the proof of effectiveness, and if there is no evidence, we must put the mask aside. There are enough studies that show that the mask doesn’t bring anything, that it is ineffective, it means for us that the obligation to wear a mask should be removed from the law. Another action taken by the minister is that he told teachers that due to the annual measures in force, they must have conversations with parents regarding the well-being of their children. We have a mixed opinion about this as we believe that teachers shouldn’t have a psychological role dealing with the damage for which they are not really responsible. The question of responsibility is also very important here, because the person who takes the responsibility must also be a guarantor for the compensation, he must also ensure that the traumatized children and parents are taken care of and possibly put back on their feet.

Presenter: You are very active here in Luxembourg, but the Luxembourg media do not talk much about what is happening in other countries. Do you have any information, any court rulings on what is happening in other countries, because otherwise the Luxembourger could think: “Well, these are the words of Mr. Hilger and his group.” It would be interesting to hear what is happening in other countries, what is being done there.

MH:So in other countries ... it took a while after the Spring of last year, but towards the end of last year, the first court decisions were issued. I quote Austria, where the Austrian Constitutional Court declared that mandatory masks were illegal, same in Bosnia, mandatory masks are unconstitutional, containment measures were ruled illegal in Portugal, in Belgium as well, then the Austrian court rulings on the PCR test which is not intended to detect infections, this test does not give evidence of infection. Then, quite recently, very important decisions, for example those of Weimar where a single court took a decision for 2 schools, why 2 schools, because parents of these 2 schools brought a lawsuit. The requirement to wear a mask, the requirement to take tests and distancing were deemed illegal and these schools were ordered to cancel them immediately. This sparked an animated controversy and politics in these countries overruled the court decisions. I think we face this and understand what it means: The court says it is unconstitutional and the government nevertheless continues! So you shouldn't be surprised when people stand up and say this can't go on any longer. Here in Luxembourg we have now proceeded this way: we have two pillars in our movement. One of the pillars is to inform the public hoping that a dialogue will take place, and the other pillar is the legal means. We have filed a case in court, a complaint in close collaboration with our lawyer against the Grand-Ducal regulation of February 20 which stipulates that a child can only return to school after quarantine if he has taken a test. Unfortunately, this complaint was not considered urgent, we wanted to bring it to justice as quickly as possible, but unfortunately it will not be dealt with until the end of this year, beginning of next year ....

Alas! A second complaint will follow, namely a complaint against the obligation to wear a mask integrated in the law, hoping that the judges will then be courageous enough to take into account what other courts have already decided and to consult the deal of evidence. Our arguments are clearly based on the rights of the child and we consider this to be a violation of the rights of the child. We also consider that this is disproportionate and that, in our opinion, the principle of proportionality has not been respected, simply because children play a secondary role in all of this and the damage caused by the measures is much greater then, for example, the damage caused by a possible virus that could infect a child. Meanwhile, there are 22 states in America which have completely ended the measures, which means that they are now back to normal life. 9 of the 22 states have not had containment measures since August 2020 and studies show that there is no difference in terms of infection between these states, for example Florida and California, states without and with the measures. Currently, 9 US states have banned the vaccine passport and I think that this too should not be ignored. In our media, in our mainstream media unfortunately, you do not hear about this although these are very important facts that should be broadcast. Therefore, people are not listened to and there is no dialogue with them for a modus vivendi to be found in order to live well together.

Presenter: What do you say about the current quick tests that are being done in schools?

MH: With regards to the self-tests which were recently introduced in schools but which remain on a voluntary basis, and we hope that it will stay that way as long as possible, the fast tests raise some questions. In fact, we read in the leaflet that these tests must be carried out under lab conditions and that protective clothing, gloves and glasses must be worn because the substance in which children soak the stick is poisonous. Our question is: Is it the same for the tests that our children use, are parents aware of this? Because we believe that if kids use something like this, parents should know about it. The leaflet also claims that the tests are not appropriate, that they are not intended for children, and we again ask why children should use tests that are not intended for them. Either way, we all know that these tests are unreliable and the likelihood of false positives is very high. And then when a child is positive, a whole procedure is set up which generates a lot of disturbances at school. The children themselves are nervous before taking the tests, and we believe that if these are made available, well-informed parents should do it at home. When we have to do it at school as teachers, it gives us too many accountability issues.

Presenter: What do you think would be a fair procedure for everyone?

MH:In my opinion, we simply need transparency, the population, especially children and parents must not be driven into fear by alarmist news that are not questioned, leading parents and children in a deleterious situation. This is the reason why I think there should be a reasonable dialogue in a society where one listens to each other and where science must also be heard. Science does not only have one aspect, there is also a conversation because scientists don’t all have the same opinion. I consider that the role of the politician is to ensure that social cohesion is created in a country. It is not by ignoring unhappy people getting more and more unhappy, that we will get there. A politician should make sure that the people who complain are not denigrated by the media, he should calm things down and find a modus vivendi so that everyone can live well together.

Presenter: Thank you very much for taking the time to do this interview and for your courage. We wish you good luck.

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Sources/Links:
Die Evidenzlage zu Mund-Nasen-Bedeckungen
https://www.aerztefueraufklaerung.de/masken/index.php

Anstieg psychischer Erkrankungen - Neue Studie von John Ioannidis
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_Vn8paEhwA

Urteil Verfassungsgerichtshof Österreich, 23.12.2020
https://www.vfgh.gv.at/medien/Covid_Schulen.php

Weimar :
https://enfance-libertes.fr/verdict-sensationnel-a-weimar-pas-de-masques-pas-de-distance-plus-de-tests-pour-les-etudiants/

https://2020news.de/beschluss-aus-karlsruhe-stuetzt-sensationsurteil-aus-weimar-rechtsbeugungsvorwurf-gegen-richter-ohne-grundlage/?fbclid=IwAR3uQY-OWtNFfVQSLrHV91eYTxLtNaNk6TcJnhzaxyWH3VECzoFFAkNsNWE