Dr Carol Swain: Plagiarism and the Death of Academic Integrity

For more on this see https://wherearethenumbers.substack.com/p/dr-carol-swain-standing-for-truth

On 15 October 2025 Norman Fenton interviewed Dr Carol Swain in advance of her Cambridge University Union debate about Black Lives Matter. Carol is one of America’s most respected conservative scholars. After early tenure at Princeton, she joined Vanderbilt University, where she taught political science and law until retiring in 2017. Among her many publications, her widely acclaimed 1993 book "Black Faces, Black Interests: The Representation of African Americans in Congress" is especially important as it challenged the prevailing progressive narrative that black voters were better represented by black congressmen. The book won national awards and has been cited in U.S. Supreme Court cases. In 2023 the book came to prominence again when it was revealed that Harvard President Claudine Gay had plagiarized portions from it in her PhD. Carol wrote a book in 2025 "The Gay Affair" which chronicles this plagiarism case and the more general issue of academic corruption.

In this interview Carol describes her upbringing in abject povery and her rise to prominence against all odds. We discuss:
Why Carol rejects affirmative action
The impact of the book Black Faces, Black Interests
The Gay Affair
Carol's Christian faith
Replacement theology and antisemitism
BLM