W T Hollis, sworn in as the 37th witness for the defense.

W. T. HOLLIS, sworn for the Defendant at the Trial of Leo Frank in the Fulton County Superior Court of Atlanta Georgia in August 1913 (Testimony Portion From July 28 - August 21, 1913; Closing Arguments August 21-25, 1913)

I am a street car conductor. On the 26th of April I was on the English Avenue line. We ran on schedule that day. Mary Phagan got on at Lindsey Street at about 11:50. She is the same girl I identified at the undertakers. She had been on my car frequently and I knew her well. No one else got on with her at Lindsey Street. Epps did not get on with her. I took up her fare on English Avenue, several blocks from where she got on. And no one was sitting with her then. I do not recollect Epps getting on the car at all that morning. Don't know whether anybody else afterwards sat with Mary or not. We got to Broad and Marietta seven and a half minutes after twelve, schedule time. I was relieved at Forsyth and Marietta Streets, where I got off. Mary was still on the car when I got off. It takes two and a half minutes to run from Broad and Marietta to Broad and Hunter. I have timed the car again and again since then. I identified the little girl at the undertaker's Sunday afternoon. Didn't notice the color of her clothes.

CROSS EXAMINATION.

Mary rode with us two or three times a week. So did Epps. I don't know where he got off or where he got on. We are not supposed to come in ahead of time. We never come in two or three minutes ahead of time. We are a little late sometimes. I never noticed anybody sitting with Mary. She was sitting by herself when I got her fare. There wasn't but two or three passengers on the car and I know there wasn't anybody sitting with her. If Epps was on the car I don't recollect it. I don't recall the name of any other passengers except Mary Phagan. As to what attracted my attention to Mary getting on the front end of the car, as a general rule when she would catch our car Mr. Matthews would say to her "You are late today," and sometimes she would come in and remark that she was mad; that she was late today and when she came that morning Mr. Matthews said to her, "Are you mad to-day?" and she said, "Yes, I am late." And sort of laughed and came on in the car and sat down. She usually caught our car when she came in the morning, the one due in town at 7:07. I didn't know Mary's name, I just recognized Mary's face as the little girl who traveled with us.

RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION.

I heard of the murder the next day. Newspaper reporters asked us to go down and identify the girl. There was no doubt about her being the little girl who was on our car. Oliver Street is the next street to Lindsey. I did not see Epps get on at Oliver Street. It is against the rule of the company to get to the city ahead of time.

RE-CROSS EXAMINATION.

It is not against the rules to get in behind time. Sometimes we might get there a few minutes ahead of time, but hardly ever. We always look at our watches at the main destination, just at Broad and Marietta. We are supposed to do that.