Where does Morality Come From? Ben Shapiro & Bill Maher debate this question…

On the September 12, 2025, episode of Real Time with Bill Maher (aired Friday), Ben Shapiro appeared as a panel guest alongside Tim Alberta to discuss topics including Shapiro’s new book Lions and Scavengers, the recent assassination of conservative activist Charlie Kirk, and broader issues like political violence and free speech. Their exchange on morality arose during a segment focused on the Bible’s role in shaping Western values, extending into the show’s “Overtime” online portion.
Maher, an outspoken atheist, criticized the Bible as “full of nonsense and wickedness and things that are everything but virtuous,” citing elements like its historical endorsement of slavery and other practices he viewed as immoral. He argued that if the Bible were divinely authored, it should be flawless, but its imperfections prove it was human-made.
Shapiro, an Orthodox Jew, pushed back by defending the Bible’s foundational influence on modern ethics. He pointed out that despite their differences—Shapiro’s faith versus Maher’s atheism—they agree on about 87.5% of moral issues, such as opposition to slavery or emphasis on virtue. Shapiro attributed this overlap to growing up in a Western society steeped in thousands of years of Judeo-Christian tradition, famously quipping: “You can think you hit that triple and formed your own morality, but the reality is you were born morally on third base.” He likened severing society from biblical roots to “cut flowers,” which inevitably wither without their source, arguing that virtue leads to better outcomes and that Nietzsche’s critiques of Judeo-Christianity (promoting weakness over strength) were misguided.
Maher countered that Western morality derives more from the Enlightenment’s anti-religious rationalism than from scripture. The liberal audience surprisingly applauded Shapiro’s points, highlighting the exchange’s unexpected resonance. The discussion underscored tensions between secular humanism and religious foundations of ethics, without resolving into full agreement.