Tom Homan Spends 13 Minutes Trying to Explain to ‘Morning Joe’ that Entering the Country Illegally Is a Crime

BRZEZINSKI: “Mr. Homan, how would you define a criminal? And I’m curious, is a person who is living in this country, paying taxes, has a license, has a job and has kids serving in the U.S. Military, but is still in the process of getting legal papers, is that person a criminal?”
HOMAN: “Well, every case is different, but what I’m talking — “
BRZEZINSKI: “I’m asking about that case.”
HOMAN: “No, I’m — “
BRZEZINSKI: “Because there’s been that case.”
HOMAN: “No, they’re — they’re not — from what you just told me, they’re not public safety threat. However, if they in a country — “
BRZEZINSKI: “So should that person be put in a car, like, surrounded by ICE agents wearing masks and dragged into a car and detained?”
HOMAN: “I don’t know the specifics of that case, but let me say this — “
BRZEZINSKI: “That seems to be the answer for any case that has happened that you don’t want to talk about, because there are cases across the country where people who are paying taxes, who have licenses, who are in the process of trying to get legal papers, are they criminals, especially those who have kids who have served in the U.S. Military, and no, they’re not a public safety hazard?”
HOMAN: “Are you going to let me answer the question?”
BRZEZINSKI: “Yes, sir.”
HOMAN: “I don’t know the facts of that case. I don’t know what you’re talking about. I have to look at the facts of the case. However, I will say this. If they’re in the country illegally, that is not okay. And people think illegal immigration is a victimless crime, and it’s not.”
BRZEZINSKI: “Are they criminals?”
HOMAN: “I don’t know the case. I don’t know the public safety threat. But I will say this. There are millions of people standing in line taking their tests, doing the background investigation, paying the fees to be part of the greatest nation on earth. And the people who are doing things the right way are sitting in the back seat while we had millions of people come across the border in the Biden Administration and cheated the system. People can call them asylum seekers all they want. But if you look at immigration court data, nearly nine out of 10 people who claimed asylum at the border under Biden ended up with an order of removal because they don’t qualify for asylum. They push themselves to the front of the line, and there are thousands of people in the world who actually are escaping fear and persecution from their homeland. They’re sitting in the back seat while people who violated the laws, disrespected this nation — if you want to be a part of the greatest nation on earth, there’s a right way and wrong way to do it. So if you’re in the country legally, you may not be a priority because we prioritize public safety and national security threats. But it’s not okay to be in this country illegally.”
BRZEZINSKI: “Okay. So is it fair to say that if someone is in the process of trying to get their paperwork straight, and they have kids who have served in the U.S. Military, and they’re paying taxes and they have a license, is it fair to say that that person is not a threat to society and not a criminal?”
HOMAN: “Do they have a criminal history? Have you seen the intelligence — do you have a — do you have the — “
BRZEZINSKI: “I’m just asking, do you consider someone who is trying to get their papers now, struggling, and has kids who serve in the military, has a license and pay taxes, is that in your mind a criminal? Is that someone you want your ICE agents to take off the street?”
HOMAN: “I just explained the real data that I see every day. That a mass, 70%, are criminals, public safety threats, and the rest are national security threats. People will find orders — I don’t know who this case — do they have a final order? Have you seen the background investigation or the investigation that was built upon by the ICE agents, what’s involved in that case, things that you may not know? So unless I know the specifics of that case, and I have the file in front of me, I can’t make that determination.”
BRZEZINSKI: “Well, I would like to see that data that you’re talking about, the 70%, the criminal history. I’d like to — I’d love some transparency as to why a lot of these people “have been disappeared. You say you have data. We would love to see it. The American people should see this data.
HOMAN: “Well, here’s the rhetoric again, right? You just said ‘disappeared.’ That is a ridiculous thing to say.”
BRZEZINSKI: “Why?”
HOMAN: “Because ICE is doing the same thing we’ve done for decades. But because of the last four years, ICE wasn’t allowed to enforce the law. ICE was told to sit back and you can’t arrest an illegal alien for simply being here legally. You’ve got to wait till they commit a serious crime and get convicted of that crime. That’s what the Secretary Mayorkas’ instructions were, and that’s why you saw so much crime in this country coming from the illegal alien population. There’s no — there’s no law enforcement. But we’re doing the same thing right now that we did when I started back in 1984. ICE agents are enforcing the laws enacted by Congress, they’re appropriated funding to enforce these laws. If you don’t like what ICE is doing, then go protest Congress. However, to say we disappear people, no, we’re arresting people that are in the country illegally and are a public safety threat. We know exactly who we’re going to arrest when we go look for them. We have a case file in front of us. We have all those facts. This is not disappearing people. This is a — “
BRZEZINSKI: “I’d love to see the data.”
HOMAN: “ — targeted enforcement operation that we’re doing. And the comments that you just made is one of the reasons why these men and women are under threat every day, not just the men and women in ICE, but their spouses and their children. They’re not disappearing people. They’re enforcing the law. And the data proves that 70% are criminals.”
BRZEZINSKI: “Could we see the data? Could we see that data?”
HOMAN: “Absolutely. I have no problem sharing any data. I read it every morning.”
BRZEZINSKI: “Well, can you share it with the rest of America?”
LEMIRE: “Yeah, we certainly would like to see that data. And local officials do, as well. We also want to get your reaction to this: The Wall Street Journal editorial board reacted to the immigration raid at the Hyundai plant in Georgia that was carried out earlier this week. I’ll just read a little bit of it now. ‘The sweeping ICE operation in Georgia illustrates the America First contradiction of demanding foreign investment in the U.S. while shrinking the available workforce. Americans want the law enforced, but raiding legal workplaces isn’t going after criminal gangs or murderers. The Georgia raid shows the Trump Administration’s priority is deporting every illegal migrant, no matter how long they have worked here. This makes every employer a potential target of an ICE raid if the agency suspects foreigners are working there. This is already having a notable impact on the U.S. labor market, as recent monthly jobs reports suggest.’ It’s hard to know, sir — that’s the end of that piece there. So let’s get your reaction to that, I mean, the the chilling effect potentially on the American economy, as well as the deportation of people who have been here for years as hardworking employees.”
HOMAN: “Well, let’s break this down. First of all, entering the country illegally is a crime. First of all, if you’re in the country illegally, it’s not okay. Knowingly hiring an illegal alien is also crime. And I said from day one, we’re going to do worksite enforcement operations. Let me give you just one — one example why this is important. And this is a true example. I put a new roof on my house a few years ago. I had to call five different companies until I got a company that guaranteed me legal workforce. And when the people that showed up was a father and son who who at one time employed 20 U.S. citizens in their company, but they couldn’t win a bid to replace a roof because they couldn’t compare themselves to a company that hired illegal aliens and gave them $5 to get on the roof, where he’s paying U.S. citizens $20 to get on the roof. So he lays off 20 U.S. citizen employees because he couldn’t compete with illegal alien workforce. That happens every day across this country a thousand times. So, hiring illegal aliens, first of all, no one hires an illegal alien out of the goodness of their heart. They hire because they can work them harder, pay them less, and undercut the competition who has U.S. citizen employees, also drive down wages. Just an example I told you, drive down wages overall. So enforcing — one of the reasons people come to this country illegally is to get a job. And that’s a — that’s an enticement and that’s a magnet. And I’m telling you, thousands — under Joe Biden in four years, 4000 aliens died making that journey, historic record. People — illegal immigration is not a victimless crime. We have laws. You’ve got to follow those laws.”
BRZEZINSKI: “Mr. Homan, I appreciate what you’re saying. I think you did answer my question. I mean, you said that if someone is here illegally, they’re a criminal. So I just want to know, what is the data you have beyond that? For example, I was giving you an example of a parent of someone who served in this country. If that person is trying so hard to get their papers straight, especially now, because you’re in charge and Trump is in charge, and they’re going to clean up the border and make this country safe and make sure that people are legal who are here in the United States, I understand that. Donald Trump won the election, in part because of this part of his campaign. I’m not arguing it. I just want to know what ICE agents out in the field right now, what they consider to be a criminal. Is that someone who has committed a crime, like robbed a store, or what about Narcisco Barranco, the father of three marines, who was cutting bushes at an IHOP before they took him off the street? I want to know. I want to know the data that you say you have about 70% of these people. Show it to us.”
HOMAN: “You send me the specifics of that case, and I’ll run down what the specifics of that case are. You may not know all the facts on that case.”
BRZEZINSKI: “I may not. I certainly don’t. That’s why I’m asking you.”
HOMAN: “Well, let me tell you — look, right now, I see — I see on the show this morning, you had Governor Healey talking about ICE doing enforcement operations at a church. False. Didn’t happen.”
BRZEZINSKI: “No. They were parked there. They did not do an operation there. She said they were parked in a public space, legally.”
HOMAN: “But to say that and to push that out there puts fear in the immigrant community. So let me tell you what’s happening — “
BRZEZINSKI: “No, to do that puts fear in the community. To park the ICE agents’ vehicle near — “
HOMAN: “They’re on a public street. “
BRZEZINSKI: “They are on a public street. She said that, sir.”
HOMAN: “They’re on a public street waiting to respond to a criminal alien release, pull aside the road. Let me tell you, in the last couple of days, what’s happened in Boston. They’ve arrested Victor Gomez Paris, the 33-year-old criminal alien from Guatemala, with charges of aggravated rape, assault and battery with a dangerous weapon, indecent assault and battery on a victim 14 years or younger. They arrested Kaley Espinosa, 33-year-old criminal alien from Colombia, with charges of aggravated assault on a pregnant victim. They arrested Joshua Gonzalez, a 24-year-old criminal alien from Dominican Republic, with charges for trafficking heroin, morphine, opium, resisting police, disorderly conduct and drug distribution. They also arrested Samuel Armando Barrera, a 20-year-old criminal illegal alien from Guatemala, with pending charges for assault and battery on a child. So Mayor Wu and Governor Healey, they ought to be calling ICE and thanking them for making their streets safer, for protecting their communities and taking these people off the street. They have turned a blind eye to this, they’re a sanctuary city. Sanctuary cities and sanctuary states are sanctuaries for criminals. Give ICE access to the jail to arrest a bad guy in the jail, rather than having to go into the community to find them, because when you go into the community to find them, it puts ICE officers at greater risk, it puts the community at greater risk, it puts the alien at greater risk because anything can happen on a street arrest. This is what we’re trying to do. We’re trying to prioritize public safety threats. But when you’ve got governors and mayors who are releasing these public safety threats every day into the community, that causes the crime rate, and we’ve seen some terrible incidents in the last few days where innocent victims are murdered. This past year, I’ve seen innocent Americans raped and murdered by people who are not supposed to be here. So rather than going back and forth, saying, ‘Well, ICE has got a car parked near a church,’ that is ridiculous. You’re out there looking for people like this. Exactly what they’re doing.”
BRZEZINSKI: “Okay. I would argue that actually, that the ICE vehicle parked outside a Spanish mass is a frightening sight, given what has happened in this country. I also, with respect, sir, thank you for the information that you have shared on this show, but we would appreciate all of the information, all of it, all of the data that you say you have.”
HOMAN: “I’ve done this show several times. Every time on your show, I speak with integrity, I speak with honesty, and I speak with facts. The bottom line is, because of this false narrative and you using the term ‘disappearing people,’ it’s disgusting.
BRZEZINSKI: “Well, that’s what happened. That happened to the group that was sent to El Salvador. I mean, U.S. citizens.”
HOMAN: “U.S. citizens get arrested every day. U.S. citizens get arrested by police every day. Are they being disappeared? No. Laws are being enforced.”
BRZEZINSKI: “No, they’re being read their rights.”
HOMAN: “They’re being arrested. They’re being put in detention because they committed a criminal offense.”
BRZEZINSKI: “Not like what you’re doing.”
HOMAN: “No, we’re enforcing the law and arresting people here in violation of law that are public safety threats. That’s not disappearing people. That’s enforcing the laws of this country and making this country safer.”
BRZEZINSKI: “Well, I thank you very much for explaining what ICE considers to be a danger and a criminal threat. Everybody understands the reality. And we appreciate your sharing that reality with us. And we would love the data. Border czar for the Trump Administration, Tom Homan, thank you very much for coming on the show this morning.”
HOMAN: “You got it.”