Robert Knudsen HSCA-2 the Prints, the Probes, the Secrecy Order

mUST READ ALONG THE TRANSCRIPT TO UNDERSTAND ANYTHING FROM THIS:
https://www.jfk-assassination.net/russ/testimony/knudsen.htm
https://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/arrb/master_med_set/md135/html/md135_0001a.htm
TRANSCRIPT of this portion:
Mr. PURDY - Did you have a chance at any time to examine the prints closely enough that you now have a recollection of what they showed?
Mr. KNUDSEN - Oh, yes.
Mr. PURDY - When did you examine them that closely?
Mr. KNUDSEN - At the time that I was examining for technical quality, a lot of things were apparent.
Mr. PURDY - What things stick in your mind about those prints? What do you recall seeing?
Mr. KNUDSEN - Well, it was a close-up of a cavity in the head.

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Probes through the body --
Mr. PURDY - Where did the probes go through the body?
Mr. KNUDSEN - From the point where the projectile entered to the point where the projectile left.
Mr. PURDY - Where were those two points?
Mr. KNUDSEN - I did not say they wer1e two points.
Mr. PURDY - You said the projectile.1
Mr. KNUDSEN - From the entry to the exit.
Mr. PURDY - Where were the entry and exit points?
Mr. KNUDSEN - Here, again, I have a mental problem here that we were sworn not to disclose this to anybody. Being under oath, I cannot tell you I do not know, because I do know; but, at the same time, I do feel I have been sworn not to disclose this information and I would prefer very much that you get one of the sets of prints and view them. I am not trying to be hard to get along with. I was told not to disclose the area of the body, and I am at a loss right now as to whether -- which is right.
Mr. PURDY - Was it a Naval order that you were operating under that you would not disclose?
Mr. KNUDSEN - This was Secret Service. To the best of my knowledge, Dr. Berkley also emphasized that this not be discussed.
Mr. PURDY - Do you remember seeing rulers in the photographs or anything other than the body itself?
Mr. KNUDSEN - Yes.

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Mr. PURDY - What other things besides the body did you see, other than the rulers?
Mr. KNUDSEN - What appeared to be stainless steel probes.
Mr. PURDY - About how long were they?
Mr. KNUDSEN - The probes?
Mr. PURDY - Yes.
Mr. KNUDSEN - I would estimate about two foot.
Mr. PURDY - Was there one probe that you saw through the body, or were there more than one?
Mr. KNUDSEN - More than one. Here again, we are getting into this grey area of what I was instructed not to discuss.
Mr. PURDY - I am sure you recognize that this is a duly- authorized Congressional investigation?
Mr. KNUDSEN - That is right, I do. That is why I say this is where I have a problem. I realize this is a duly-authorized investigation of the United States government. Personally, my preference would be that you get a set of the prints and view the prints, and then there would be no question. That would get me off the hook on the fact that I am sworn not to discuss the subject matter.
Mr. PURDY - Do you know Robert Goff, the General Counsel of the Secret Service?
Mr. KNUDSEN - I do not know him personally.
Mr. PURDY - If he authorized you to discuss this information,

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would you be willing to discuss it? I should point out that we have the full cooperation of the Secret Service and the other government agencies in obtaining all other information and there were other orders that came down pertaining to this material on the autopsy that have been formerly rescinded by government agencies so we could pursue the investiga- tion. I am sympathetic to your concerns. I am not sure that you recognize the evidentiary significance of what you are saying here today and the importance of what you are not saying relative to other people's testimony, relative to examinations of the prints that we have made.
Mr. KNUDSEN - I think this would clarify the whole situation. If the prints were examined, and then I would not be in the spot that I am, that I am sworn not to disclose it. It would give a very definite answer to you as to the number of probes.
Mr. PURDY - I should say that we have had access to the autopsy photographs and the questions that I am asking remain unanswered. So I would like to ask again, if either we could arrange, or you could arrange with the Secret Service to have this order lifted, if you then would be willing to cooperate with us?
Mr. KNUDSEN - I will cooperate as far as I can. As I say --
Mr. PURDY - If you are willing, we could take a short break

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and we could call the Secret Service, or I could give you the number and you can call them, or we can just ask a few other questions, have you gain a clearance and then reconvene on another day, if that is convenient with you.
Mr. KNUDSEN - Whichever you prefer.
Mr. PURDY - I think we will take a recess at this time. (A brief recess was taken.)
Mr. PURDY - We are resuming the deposition. During the berak, I spoke with John Mehan, an assistant to Robert Goff and he is going to contact Robert Goff, General Counsel for the Secret Service. For the record, the time now is 10:28 a.m. Mr. Knudsen, was this a totally unique situation, specifically the making of these prints and the number of sets that were made, or was this a kind of a standard procedure for sensitive photo- graphs?
Mr. KNUDSEN - I do not understand the question.
Mr. PURDY - Were there other very sensitive photographs that you had to deal with that maybe were handled in a similar way as these with the Secret Service being involved in the transport of them, with a certain set number of prints made up, a definite number of sets of prints made up? Was this customary procedure for such sensitive materials?
Mr. KNUDSEN - I do not recall any other time Secret Service has ever escorted me for something like that.

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Mr. PURDY - Was the number seven a customary number for sets of prints?
Mr. KNUDSEN - No. I cannot tell you why it sticks. It sticks in my mind very strongly.
Mr. PURDY - Could it have been seven prints? Are you very sure it is seven sets of prints?
Mr. KNUDSEN - I know it could not have been seven prints, because that would not have covered a print for each negative.
Mr. PURDY - How many negatives were you? How many prints were made?
Mr. KNUDSEN - I do not recall.
Mr. PURDY - Could you give me a rough idea? For example, were there a similar number of color and black and white prints, or was there a greater number of one than the other?
Mr. KNUDSEN - No black and white prints made, to my knowledge.
Mr. PURDY - Were there similar numbers of black and white negatives as compared to color negatives?
Mr. KNUDSEN - It seems to me approximately ten negatives, color negatives. I do not recall. This is an approximate.
Mr. PURDY - You think there were approximately ten color prints made?
Mr. KNUDSEN - No, approximately ten color negatives; seven prints of each of these.
Mr. PURDY - You made seven prints of each negative?
Mr. KNUDSEN - Yes.

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Mr. PURDY - So that each set consisted of ten color prints?
Mr. KNUDSEN - Approximately. I do not recall the exact number. There, again, what I am taking this from -- it seems to me there were five holders that they took into the dark room. If there were five holders, ten negatives. If there were one exposed sheet, there would have been nine negatives.
Mr. PURDY - Were there approximately ten black and white negatives, or a greater or lesser number?
Mr. KNUDSEN - There was one total film back. There would have been twelve negatives, black and white.
Mr. PURDY - Did you make an index of the prints, describing each one?
Mr. KNUDSEN - No.
Mr. PURDY - Was one made to your knowledge?
Mr. KNUDSEN - Not to my knowledge.
Mr. PURDY - You worked in the White House until 1974 approximately? Is that correct?
Mr. KNUDSEN - Correct.
Mr. PURDY - What did you do then?
Mr. KNUDSEN - Photographer.
Mr. PURDY - Private?
Mr. KNUDSEN - I was employed by the United States government. On June 20, 1965, I had my twenty years in the Navy and I requested retirement. I was advised that I could retire, provided I

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would stay on in a Civil Service capacity. They wanted my services to continue. So I retired. I can tell you the exact date. Just a minute. (Pause) I retired on the 11th of June, 1965, which was a Friday. I worked Saturday and Sunday and went on Civil Service payroll on Monday. On the 14th of June, I went on the Civil Service payroll.
Mr. PURDY - Could you describe to us what you are raading that information from?
Mr. KNUDSEN - Navy retirement. My Navy retirement card. They put the date of retirement on there, so I know that was the date I retired. I know it was a Friday. They had the fine arts celebration, show, or whatever you call it, at the White House. I worked that week-end photographing that, and I was advised that I did not go on payroll until Monday morning.
Mr. PURDY - Have you been working on Civil Service payroll ever since?
Mr. KNUDSEN - Until I retired in November of `74.
Mr. PURDY - What have you been doing since then?
Mr. KNUDSEN - Since then, free-lance photography.
Mr. PURDY - You still have been working even though you have been retired from the government?
Mr. KNUDSEN - Right.

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Mr. PURDY - Are you working full-time?
Mr. KNUDSEN - No. Just part-time, free-lance.
Mr. PURDY - Have you had any contact, or did you have any contact, with any other autopsy-related materials while you were working at the White House during those years?
Mr. KNUDSEN - Not to my knowledge.
Mr. PURDY - Did you ever have knowledge of, or were you ever told about, autopsy x-rays, for example?
Mr. KNUDSEN - No. I do not know that any were ever taken.
Mr. PURDY - Did you know, from your personal knowledge, or were you told about, the existence of any tissue-related materials from the autopsy itself, such as slides or tissue sections or paraffin blocks?
Mr. KNUDSEN - I was told -- I do not know who it was -- that there was tissue taken from the back of the head. As I say, I was told. I do not know.
Mr. PURDY - Did you also learn where that material was being kept when you learned of its existence?
Mr. KNUDSEN - I was told that it was taken at the time of the autopsy at the Naval Hospital in Bethesda. I would just assume that it was studied out there, because I understand they have a fine set-up there as anyplace. It would be an assumption; I do not know.
Mr. PURDY - Did you ever come into the possession of any information about where those tissue materials were kept or

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what happened to them?
Mr. KNUDSEN - No.
Mr. PURDY - We will take another short break and see if we can hear from the Secret Service. It is now 10:35 a.m. (A brief recess was taken)
Mr. PURDY - We will go back on the record now. The time now is 11:12 a.m. We still have been unable to get the call back from Robert Goff of the Secret Service, so, Mr. Knudsen, I did, as I said, talk with John Mehan who works for Robert Goff. He is trying to get in touch with him but we -- you were in the Navy at the time, I believe. Is that correct?
Mr. KNUDSEN - That is correct.
Mr. PURDY - I will show you, at this time, a letter that we sent to the Secretary of Defense, asking that the order of silence which was given to Navy personnel be lifted and the response, and I give you my assurance that the Secret Service is cooperating with us, and it is only a question of the communica- tion getting through. Specifically, this letter requests that the order of silence be lifted and that it pertain to people present at the autopsy of the President. I show you this letter. It is dated February 27, 1978, to Harold Brown, Secretary of Defense, and just take your time and read that. (Pause) If you still have a problem going into the details of your

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recollection, we can convene at another time to question you.
Mr. KNUDSEN - I probably would recall as good now as I could later. Like I say, it has been a long time.