The Mystery of Capt Groves #2 Russo Ties It In To Bethesda,Groves' Role in Autopsy-Rebentische Audio

Subtract 54:00 from the transcript times to find them saying it:
absolutely Rick I know we have you
54:02
on mute but I know you're probably chomping at the bit to ask uh David
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questions H actually what I wanted to say is uh how I found out about uh the
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captain Michael Grove story to begin with uh I think I was one day just surfing the
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internet and I came across an excerpt that was uh from a book called JFK the dead
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Witnesses by Craig Roberts and John Armstrong and uh they had a story that
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that basically uh stated uh Captain Michael D Groves who commanded the JFK
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honor guard for Kennedy's funeral died under mysterious
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circumstances seven days after the funeral while eating dinner he took a
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bite of food paused brief YY as a pained look came over his face then passed out
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fell face down into his plate and he died instantly on December 12th his
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possessions and momentos which had been sent home to
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Birmingham uh Michigan were destroying the fire of mysterious origin the honor
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guard for some mysterious reason had been practicing for presidential funeral
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3 days before the Pres Kennedy's assassination Captain Gro was 27 years
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old at the time of his death and the cause of death unknown and then
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parenthesis possibly poison now um that was
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basically uh what the so-called uh JFK research
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Community um was speculating about why this man had died
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because he and his honor guard were rehearsing for uh you know the death of
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a of a president that coincidentally was just three days before the assassination
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and I think that you know they assume that perhaps uh this is because he had
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some pre-knowledge that perhaps you know Kennedy's assassination was going to
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happen well I looked into I looked into that aspect of the story
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and what I found out was it was not uncommon for the honor guard at least
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twice a month to rehearse for for these kind of things to begin with but at that
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time people were concerned about president Herbert Hoover and he was Ill
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to the point where you know people started to think well maybe we should be prepared for this and it was Hoover's
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possible funeral that they had been rehearsing uh just a few few days before the Kennedy assassination so obviously
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there's no connection there at all with uh W with that story but uh nevertheless and I
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think you found this to be true as well David if you go on the internet to try to to find out anything
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about Michael Groves uh other than the article that uh David Smallwood wrote
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with you uh and a and a couple other the things uh it's almost like he doesn't
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exist EX in fact I don't know if you tried I
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actually went online to the JFK Library typed in his name you know just to see
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what they said about this man who had a very important job at the White House as you stated and nothing comes up at all
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under his name on at the JFK uh uh library and then I thought well maybe
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I'm just doing it wrong but you know but you know for the heck of it I typed in
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one of the other Honor Guard members name in that group James Felder and his name came up six times right in in you
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know so you almost get the sense that somebody is trying to erase the
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existence uh and the story of the life of Michael Groves for for whatever
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reason yeah that's certainly the impression that I got and uh not only
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not only do I feel that they uh are um attempting to erase him as I said when I
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lived in when I lived in Birmingham Michigan the local high school was called Groves High uh
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subsequently right after that or shortly after that it became Birmingham high so
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I think they're getting rid of the name Groves all together well um the something else I
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came across I thought was interesting is uh and this is from the UPI and the the caption reads Captain's
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death uh bear with me for a second yeah here we go Captain's death called another
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slaying tragedy and then it reads from Washington representative James Falton
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republican from Pennsylvania told the house Wednesday so this is this is just
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a few hours after they're saying that Groves died uh the very next day the
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house Wednesday that the death of the army Captain who directed military honors at President Kennedy's funeral
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was another tragedy stemming from the assassination 27-year-old Captain
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Michael D Groves commanding officer of the honor guard company of the first Battalion third infantry Old Guard
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collapsed and died while eating dinner Tuesday night an army spokesman said the
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death was due to a heart attack Fulton said Groves quote overtaxed himself end
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quote in his duties his death is another tragic inent incident that flowed from
1:00:07
this attack on the government of the United States it could be said that he died in the service of his country and
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that his was a job well done uhuh groes commanded the Old Guard unit that keeps
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Perpetual uh watch at the Tomb of the Unknown at Arlington National Cemetery
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during president's funeral he directed honor guards at the White House the capitol rotunda and the Arlington
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Cemetery and and the kesan Detachment now what I and again this is
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just me a a and I could be totally off Bas on this it's almost like a
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misdirection is going on here you've got somebody on the house of the uh Congress
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talking about the death of Michael Groves he's given a funeral so similar
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to President Kennedy's that somebody who happened to be witnessing this going on
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thought that they were doing a recreation of Kennedy's you know uh
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funeral uh for a movie or something right and then I think you told me I I
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can't I can't remember so I thought I i' toss it to you how far did you tell me
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that Groves was buried at Arlington from President Kennedy's grave I don't I
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don't know that I I don't know that I mentioned that to you and I don't think I know that but I can tell you that in
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my in my conversation with da and glattus Groves um that they uh uh that when they
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were going down Pennsylvania Avenue you know with the lone horse you know with
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the queson with the whole the whole routine that looked very much it looked
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very much like what happened uh um with with uh JFK and they were under the impression
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by people that were just standing around that it was a more or less a reenactment for some kind of a
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documentary right right okay that's what they that's that's the way they felt
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what was going on there and they were more or less being isolated from anybody from any
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reporters or any anybody like that in other words if that's what people were
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led to believe they wanted them to continue to be led to believe to believe that yeah you you know I I was just
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gonna say that uh I I just wonder what gave his parents and his sister such a
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definitive sense of the fact that they think that he was poisoned and that he
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was murdered as you know even though the heart attack story makes no sense for
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for for a young man his age and in his shape but nevertheless uh what made them
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feel so definitively that you know that this was not the the the one the well there's one
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person that's missing out of all of this and supposedly that's supposed to be the eyewitness to his death and that's
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allegedly his wife yeah right to be found yeah I was just going
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to say that I mean she you know interestingly enough I think if she were just around his age she'd be in her late
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80s right now if she were still alive and she really I think if we if someone
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could track her down would be quite revealing uh if she was there and and
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perhaps if he was uh relaying very intimate details of what he thought or
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what might have been seen in those couple of days right uh right before the
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uh his death I think that's a really critical thing I think if there's one opportunity it's that person and of
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course to to what extent if she's not alive that she passed some of that down to kellyanne and her perhaps her second
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child that was she was pregnant with at right and OB and obviously and obviously
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Michael Groves his uh sister you know had much the same feelings as the
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parents did and and I believe it might very well come you know from um from
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gr's Widow you know from Captain gr's Widow you know she had firsthand
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knowledge of this that's the story that that's the story that was being fed to everybody that you know he went home he
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was having dinner he had a heart attack his fa he he fell face first you know
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into his food you know this is the kind of routine you know that that the the
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the the uh the um um powers that be basically wrote down and this was the
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and this was what everybody said when you spoke to them whether it be Felder you know whether you whether we spoke to
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anybody else that was out there that was the story one one has to one has to
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wonder about the extent of the funeral though there are some very specific criteria for an individual being
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eligible for a state funeral I think you have to be at a certain rank within the
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military and I'm certain it's above captain and there is a notable exception understand it is above captain and I
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think there's a notable exception for the commander-in chief so if you're the president you're you're AFF fored the
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state funeral so why it it does beg the question when he was not eligible as uh
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probably as heartfelt as it might have been for the military to want especially in that moment of morning generally to
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want to do something quite special particularly for somebody uh in the Old Guard that was close to him and had
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prepared his own funeral certainly uh some poetic element to that uh but at
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the end of the day why would they bring more attention if something were were more nefarious I think the one question
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uh and it does sound quite nefarious if you uh you know if you ask the basic question around this but why would they
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bring so much attention by giving him a state funeral was it a way to assuage his parents maybe perhaps I don't know
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yeah I think so and it's another question I don't know you know they're they're basically talking about how they
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started out from the White House okay um so that means that his
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body had to be moved um you know because if he was brought to the hospital um he
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was B he was probably brought to Walter Reed because he was in he was an army
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guy uh you know as as opposed to Bethesda you know which is a Navy uh
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thing uh uh so then he and if he went to a mg then he had to then be moved so
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allegedly this whole thing started out at the White House I don't know where that casket was and how it where it was
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brought you know for all we know he died in the White
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House well I that miss this that's why we're calling that's why we are calling
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this you know mystery the enduring secret uh may may I read you one more
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version of the official story uh this comes from William
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Manchester's book death of a president uh and it reads during the
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winter of 1963-64 several people had played
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peripheral roles in the events of the previous November died unexpectedly or
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fell victims to strange violence so had the 27-year-old Captain
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who had been Lieutenant Sam Bird's Superior officer throughout the capital
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ceremonial farewells to the president the previous September he had passed his
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regular army physical his cardiogram had been normal 10 days after the burial in
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Arlington he took a day off and toppled over at his dinner table the victim of a
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heart attack right now again uh that's about one of the
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only other things you could find about this whole story it's interesting that Manchester happened to mention it as
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well in his book although he doesn't mention Groves by name right uh so uh
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well you know oh I was just gonna say Rick I I think the other aspect of this you you hear when you have so many
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dubious deaths and you hear why or actually the source of why they might have died heart attack comes up quite
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often uh and obviously as a military officer and part of the army as you
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indicate he would have gone to Walter Reed and they would have controlled the autopsy there so at the end of the day
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again if you're suggesting potentially you know any sort of Nefarious Behavior they
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would have controlled the outcome of that autopsy because it would not have been done I don't think in a civilian
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environment it would have been it would have been done at Walter Reed
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presumably well we seem to be faced with three questions
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here how did he die when did he die and why did he die and the
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contradiction obviously is we're told that he died from a heart attack yet his
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parents and sister firmly believe he was poisoned when did he die we're told to
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December 3rd but according to Bobby Lee Hayden it was uh the evening of November
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25th and then of course we get into the situation that if he was poisoned why was he
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murdered and uh perhaps that would bring us to uh to our story about bethesa
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naval hospital um when I started to look into the Grove
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story and and going on the internet and that's how I found David Smallwood and his article and then by extension David
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turned me on to David uh Blanco and then he filled me in on his experience with
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gr's family uh this jogged my memory as to a conversation that I had
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in April of 1997 with a man by the name of Donald rebentish
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and uh Donald was a a member of a group of men at Bethesda who actually received
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President Kennedy's casket and body uh late that afternoon and uh perhaps would would
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would this be the time to to go into our uh audio clip uh Jeff sure yeah sure we
1:11:12
can do that give me a moment and I I will pull that up and this is this is a
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rather unfortunately this is listening to a recording through a microphone so
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it arguably will be uh will be strained to hear it but let's let's give it a
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go and anyway I happened to have duty that day in fact in the
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morning we found out what was going on in Dallas they told us to report to the Master at Arms office and I did and uh
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things were really things were different you know I've been Navy quite a while and I'm
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pretty used to procedure I a senior py officer second class py officer and we
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went to our duty station and anyway the officer of the day you know I've been around naval officers all my life as the
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officer of the day all a sudden we had a army Captain young fell and we were told
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that he was going to be in charge of all us they sealed the uh the hospital in
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fact as they armed some of their Sailors that were there that were going to staff guard up the gate you know to the in and out of the
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hospital and told them they didn't care if was a festar adal nobody's going in nobody's going out but at 4:00 in the
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afternoon they told us that they were going to break the body up and the back they told us that absolutely they
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explain what it was they were said they were going to uh have the gos chase the
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up Wisconsin Avenue and they actually bringing his body in and going the back
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and I was one of the Five County officers that was
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was what was sorry interrupt you but when you say the did you say the golds that's how explained to us chase
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the what what are they are desable people apparently that
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were looking for the sensation of the thing oh theh oh I see oh okay I'm sorry
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to interrupt and anyway I at 4:00 the afternoon it made absolute sense to me
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what they were you know of course you know you're not a you're not a church much youngil back in
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those days but that plan of action AB the only that didn't make sense we were
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taking from army officer ranking offer you know just two stripes an army
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Captain which isn't which isn't much the officer never happened prior to
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that that was unprecedented I'll tell you a little bit more about that but
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anyway but he didn't he didn't tell you exactly what time he he didn't tell me any that I really wasn't interested I
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just tell him what I know right but there was no in my mind what they were
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going to do we were ahead of time exactly what they were going to do and and they did it I mean this was no
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surpris me everything well the thing is is having someone with another affiliation uh you know other than the
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na coming up to you and tell you didn't you have to second guess that and say hey wa minut let me check with my
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Superior if the army officer was there in the chief Master arms office and you
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know here's the old chief that we're working for he's saying hey guys this is the way it is I right I believe there
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was aior officer there too what was the chief what was the chief's name at that I can't remember because those people
1:14:46
are all stff and we were students and like I told this a huge pleas probably two three, military
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right you know there's probably 10 different Duty stations and and we only
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duty about once every two every three weeks I know people
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and told let me tell you more about this you get rumor here one of the things
1:15:10
that all guys could get over the fact was army officer in charge that was one
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thing that I I just could never sh and then you know and again it's probably
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all just the story that we got back the to be down there was that this young guy was
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under so much stress he ended up having a heart attack and he died first we just dropped if it was true not it it was
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just so abely took over our duty station the
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was charge us and it was absolutely army officer and he was captain of the
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army it's incredible he was probably 33
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30 33
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well I really I I'll I'll reiterate what basically happened in my conversation
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with uh when I interviewed uh Donald rentes in April of 1997 you know uh I was just doing it to
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get his overall story because uh I was of the understanding that he and at that
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time the belief was well along with Dennis David had received uh President Kennedy's casket
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which was a shipping casket uh you know 20 to 30 minutes before Jackie Kennedy
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arrived in front of Bethesda in a gray ambulance carrying the bronze casket uh
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from Dallas and and so one of the things that jumped out during that uh interview
1:16:45
with with Robin Tesh was the fact that he would into the debt you know many
1:16:50
years later still stuck with him he could not get over the fact that when he went to his duty station that afternoon
1:16:57
uh to be told what you know what he would be doing not knowing anything that was about to happen he was told by his
1:17:04
Superior that he would be taking his orders from this young Army Captain
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which was unprecedented an army captain in a naval setting giving orders uh
1:17:17
never happened before during or since so in any in any event um rentes ands up
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taking his orders from this captain and they received Kennedy's casket uh around
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6:30 in the evening but the interesting part is uh David is that they were told
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by this Army Captain around four o'clock in the afternoon that they would be
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receiving the president's body and that there would be another uh casket in a gray ambulance that would be arriving uh
1:17:48
in the front of the hospital and that was a diversion uh so he knew uh he knew ahead
1:17:55
of time uh you know that this was going to happen and it made perfect sense to rentes that they would be doing this
1:18:02
kind of thing for security reasons you know this diversion if you may uh but but the person who's over seeing this
1:18:09
whole operation who knows ahead of time that that they will be receiving the casket
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at this particular time around 6:30 at Bethesda and bringing it into the morg I
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is is a young Army captain who then rebent Tesh finds out uh sometime after
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that that he died uh within a week later now in my
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opinion he's describing Captain Michael D Groves now it would make sense to me
1:18:39
uh if they needed somebody that they could trust to oversee such a situation
1:18:45
of in a clandestine man are bringing in the body of the president unbeknownst to
1:18:51
everybody you know for the reason reasons whatever reasons they were doing it uh they could probably trust you know
1:18:59
the captain of the White House honor guard with the w with this job and and and so I believe that with the knowledge
1:19:06
of what he participated in and perhaps other things that he was aware of that took place after the fact EP bethesa
1:19:14
that night was almost dangerous knowledge and who knows over that
1:19:21
weekend who he told or what he said that perhaps you know created and again this
1:19:28
is speculation but you know created a situation that that ultimately caused
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his uh his death and uh and the other thing is is that if we didn't have
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rentes and it all and also um rentes was
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interviewed seven years before I did uh by author Harry
1:19:51
Livingstone and and Livingstone just had a a brief sentence in h a book he wrote called
1:19:58
killing the truth where he states that uh rentes told him that uh rentes REM
1:20:04
remembers the Color Guard Captain and said that he died a week later from the
1:20:11
strain so that's something that uh Rees didn't even tell me as far as mentioning Color
1:20:17
Guard Captain um but NE nevertheless uh if
1:20:22
weren't for rentes we wouldn't even know that there was an Army captain on on
1:20:28
site at Bethesda and and part of a a group of people receiving the president's body uh so these are
1:20:37
circumstances that you know perhaps point to uh to to some answers about the
1:20:42
uh the death of groves no doubt I mean these are uh
1:20:51
clearly things that that are questionable I think that's the the way
1:20:57
you have to put it I think the the you have to you have to presume that the
1:21:05
activities that weekend were something so
1:21:10
secretive that for whatever reason whether they were right or they were wrong or whether there was something more to them that we don't really quite
1:21:17
understand yet the actions that were taken if they were in fact taken to shut
1:21:24
him up were pretty severe I mean obviously they had lots of people involved in this
1:21:30
exercise and there were many people most of them all of them were compelled to
1:21:36
sign secrecy agreements so why wouldn't they just have done the same thing with
1:21:42
him why would his involvement have been so of such a nature that there was a
1:21:47
need to perhaps do something or go go further with it I mean if in fact it was
1:21:53
nefarious I you know I always ask those kind of questions in this this kind of circumstance it certainly it begs the
1:22:01
question well one of the things that his family believed was that because um because he was more or less
1:22:08
in command of the White House by virtue of a position that
1:22:16
he you know that he was appointed to by by by the president um I you know and
1:22:22
I'm not again not can't say with any definitiveness that that was his job
1:22:29
that in other words if the if the president uh dies that the H that the captain of the Guard assumes assumes
1:22:37
control over the White House over the so-called Fort you know or the or the
1:22:43
post and he's privy to all of the communications into and out of the White
1:22:49
House for that four or five hours it is very likely that he heard
1:22:56
something yeah I I think I mean of all the all that we've discussed today I
1:23:01
think that's the one clearly delineating factor I don't think it's necessarily what may have happened or what he might
1:23:07
have seen at the autopsy given uh the fact that so many others were involved
1:23:13
and they just essentially signed secrecy agreements and that was it I think he was prohibited much more and your
1:23:21
comments regarding what made happened at the White House are also I think pretty extensive I mean obviously it's a
1:23:26
cumulative effect right he had the opportunity to see and hear much more
1:23:32
than anyone at Bethesda would have heard and if the combination of all of those
1:23:38
elements uh together combined led him to believe that
1:23:44
something much more nefarious and serious was happening then that might have been just it well there's a lot
1:23:51
obviously there's a lot of people you know as uh Rick was talking about earlier you know that you could Google
1:23:58
you know when it comes to the JFK assassination and their names keep popping up right regardless of what
1:24:06
position they had at the time you know but um when it comes to Captain Groves
1:24:12
he's more or less been disappeared here's a guy who had a
1:24:17
prominent position you know in the White House and a prominent
1:24:22
position um uh for those for those five hours in the White House and after that
1:24:29
basically coordinating everybody else in terms of movement of the body and this and that and so forth and yet you it's
1:24:37
hard to find anything about Captain Groves you know do do you recall uh I
1:24:45
assume you do you indicated that you got somewhat of a canned response when you
1:24:51
reach uh or a caned response when you reached out to uh some of his various
1:24:57
colleagues on the guard do you recall the names of the individuals that you spoke to uh well one of them was one
1:25:05
that was just mentioned by Rick um I could probably look it up but uh uh he
1:25:10
was he was one of the individuals that went out to meet the body uh at the at the plane and then was
1:25:18
more or less uh told to to move away that the secret service was going to take it um he but again the the the when
1:25:27
you when you question him you know about about the death of Captain Groves it
1:25:33
comes up oh he died you know at dinner with his wife having a heart attack and
1:25:38
falling into his plate of food in front of his wife and his daughter and it's always the same thing it's it's almost
1:25:46
it's almost verbatim What Rick was reading earlier you know that uh um uh
1:25:52
that event and it and it appears that that event is what is ingrained in all
1:25:57
of their minds including their wives well you know you know what I
1:26:03
remember from I think you told me this uh is when you interviewed Bobby Hayden
1:26:09
uh or maybe it was David uh Smallwood that asked him the question do you think Captain Groves was
1:26:16
poisoned and Hayden's response I thought was kind of interesting he could have said
1:26:22
well the official you know thing that we were told is that he died of a heart
1:26:28
attack or he could have said well you know we knew the man he was in terrific
1:26:33
shape it made no sense uh so it could have very you know well been a
1:26:39
suspicious death but Hayden's answer was no comment no comment yeah which
1:26:46
leads me to believe that perhaps these men knew more than they would ever tell us but were you know because of the
1:26:53
military secrecy you know thing that they just lived with and even took to their graves most of these men they
1:27:00
would never even with their own wives or family you know discuss these kind of matters you know but uh you know getting
1:27:06
back to Michael Groves if he was uh like you at least his father thought that he
1:27:13
was actually at the White House during that e afternoon and evening you know in
1:27:19
a position to hear information or whatever one would think that officially there would be a record if him being
1:27:26
there you know uh but again where do you find these records if they even exist
1:27:33
right so uh but but but uh you know I put a lot of stock in the fact that reent Tesh
1:27:40
uh you know knew that he was taking orders from a a young Army captain and
1:27:46
and who died I uh within a week later I mean how many how many army captains fit
1:27:52
that bill you know what I mean so uh I find that a little hard to to to
1:27:59
ignore that's why it's a mystery yep that's why it's a
1:28:05
mystery uh we we've I've really enjoyed this we're coming along here at about an hour and 20 minutes and it's been a an
1:28:13
action-packed hour and 20 minutes David what a story you've told uh I can't wait
1:28:20
to get it out and uh and get it circulated and of course the conversation's always more Rich when uh
1:28:27
Rick is is in it as as is as you can hear by some of the questions that he
1:28:34
asked we we'd love to uh keep you uh on the Rolodex so to speak uh David I hope
1:28:41
that you'll uh come back and visit us again I hope actually what you do is you go out and find Mary and uh and then
1:28:49
you're back on the show to be to be kept on your role at de and I appreciate the fact that you're giving you know this
1:28:56
story a platform you know I want to thank both Rick rouso and you for doing
1:29:01
that um uh I hope uh this I hope this develops some legs and I hope that some
1:29:06
people are out there that have an opportunity to maybe fill in some of the missing pieces that would be very nice
1:29:13
yes that's wonderful getting the story out there perhaps will end up being a
1:29:18
catalyst uh for you know ju just to give one last example um because David Lytton
1:29:25
wrote a book best evidence and and rentes in January of
1:29:30
1981 happened to be at work reading his weekly copy of Time magazine that had a
1:29:35
review of the book talking about the mystery of the two caskets and and lifting um you know feeling it was
1:29:42
suspicious and something nefarious was going on uh after reading that rentes
1:29:48
took uh offense to it because as far as he was concerned this was an operation that they knew ahead of time was going
1:29:55
to happen there was nothing nefarious about it it was in his mind standard operating procedure you know to have
1:30:02
diversion as part of a security measure and so forth and so on but but that's what brought rentes into the public
1:30:09
domain talking to a newspaper uh uh reporter in his hometown and then from
1:30:14
there you know uh his story came out but we we never would have even heard or knew about rebent Tesh if it for for
1:30:22
that so who knows what might come out of the woodwork now that Jeff has done this episode and and uh and and perhaps there
1:30:30
is some Serendipity to all of this no doubt just like just like there
1:30:36
was happen stance David with uh you ending up right next door to the Groves
1:30:41
correct and then in the and then in the postal line right next to David Smallwood sometimes that's justs just to
1:30:48
to just to I want to make sure that everybody here has no no suicidal
1:30:53
[Music] ideations it's almost like when I
1:30:58
watched an interview with Tucker and that guy Andrew Tate he kept inter he kept uh he kept putting in I I'm not
1:31:06
considering suicide I just want everybody to know I'm not considering suicide because there's so many people
1:31:13
in this end of the business that end up dying by Suicide I yeah we don't want to
1:31:20
we don't want to be the know I know Jeff and I plan to see a cardiologist sometime next week you know
1:31:27
I I gotta tell you I eat a lot of I eat a lot of fatty foods who knows
1:31:32
right well it this has been a absolute pleasure David you're uh spectacular
1:31:38
Storyteller yourself and obviously you had a a meticulous approach to this and
1:31:44
your comments were measured and I know the audience is going to love this and it's really actually a part of the story
1:31:51
that uh you know I think Rick and I talk about it a lot I have something like 250
1:31:56
or 300 books there's thousands of videos out there and you just can't you can't find this particular story and it's so
1:32:03
close to the epicenter of what happened so we're just really glad that you're that you pursued it to begin with and
1:32:10
and that you're uh telling your story today on on JFK the enduring secret YouTube thank thank you very much you're
1:32:17
welcome thanks for listening to this episode of Mysteries of the enduring
1:32:23
secret and please don't forget to subscribe to our YouTube channel JFK the
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