Bill Kelly The AF1 Tapes: "The Black Box of the Kennedy Assassination" 9-27-14 w/ Hofeling Notes

courtesy ARRC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bxq-pHXhPY
Kelly's Blog:
https://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/
Uncut 2.5h audio on Popeye's channel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJ9GncGaNLY
Keven Hofeling notes:
Jun 29, 2025
Based on the transcript from "Bill Kelly - The Air Force One Tapes HD," here are the key points:

(00:20-00:59) Bill Kelly introduces his JFK research background, starting in the early 1980s when he discovered connections between Dallas police officer Tippit's friend Carl Mather and Collins Radio company

(02:29-03:03) Kelly uncovered that Collins Radio provided communication systems for Air Force One, the cabinet plane, and Strategic Air Command bombers, with operations coordinated through their "Liberty Station" in Cedar Rapids, Iowa

(06:51-08:09) In 1979, the LBJ Library released edited Air Force One radio tapes on cassettes, but Kelly later discovered a longer "Clifton tape" that contained additional 30 minutes of recordings with unique information

(12:10-13:15) Multiple versions of the tapes exist with significant editing - three reporters (Manchester, White, and Salinger) had access to unedited transcripts that quoted material not present in released versions

(15:52-16:57) Air Force One pilot was monitoring Secret Service transmissions during the Dallas motorcade, and calls were made including one to someone named "Goldberg" advising immediate swearing-in of LBJ

(18:17-19:47) Colonel Bromley Smith in the White House Situation Room was communicating with Air Force One about Oswald being the assassin - notably, Smith had previously served at the U.S. Embassy in Moscow where he encountered Oswald years earlier

(22:50-24:07) A critical incident occurred where the code book went missing from the pilot's safe, leading to identification of "Major Harold Patterson" as "stranger" - Patterson later confirmed details but became reluctant to discuss further

(26:09-27:50) General Curtis LeMay was unexpectedly at a small Canadian air base rather than his planned Toronto location during the assassination, and Colonel Dorman had an urgent message for him that remains unclear
_______________
Original Source:

'Bill Kelly - The Air Force One Tapes HD' | Assassination Archives and Research Center | Jan 17, 2016 | • Bill Kelly - The Air Force One Tapes HD

William E. Kelly: An extraordinary independent researcher; founder, Committee for an Open Archive; co-founder, Coalition on Political Assassinations. Bill’s current focus includes the November 22nd Air Force One cockpit tapes which have never been fully released, and which he believes “are the black box of the Kennedy assassination.” Bill is the co-founder of CAPA, Committee Against Political Assassinations. Bill's online essays, available by visiting his blogspots, are an invaluable resource on key issues and important areas associated with the study of President Kennedy's assassination. Highly recommended.

http://www.jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/
http://www.jfkcountercoup2.blogspot.com/
http://www.capa-hq.com/

Transcript

0:20
i'm Bill Kelly Uh I run the uh blog JFK Counter I'm an original founding member
0:26
of COPA and the Committee for an Open Archives And um what I'm going to do is
0:31
give you a synopsis of uh the events that led up to where we are today with the JFK tapes They're a work in progress
0:38
and um we're not complete we're not finished with it yet but u it's pretty fascinating uh information and I'm
0:44
really uh proud to present this and I think it's a there's a lot of new information coming out about it uh as we
0:50
go along Um I first got involved uh uh
0:55
back in uh I guess it was the early 80s I went to Dallas and I met Wes Weise the mayor a former mayor of Dallas and a
1:02
reporter at the time of the assassination And he gave me a tour of Dallas and um took me to the Tippet
1:08
murder scene and uh and told me about uh Tippet's best friend Carl Mathther who
1:14
was with Tippet the morning of the assassination And after the assassination he um um
1:21
uh he went to visit Tippet's widow And uh later it was reported that uh uh a
1:28
person resembling Lee Harvey Oswald was driving around Oakliff in in Carl Matther's automobile Plymouth
1:36
And then uh Wise tells me that uh Carl Mather worked at Collins radio And that
1:42
was the first I heard at Collins Radio But then I got the
1:47
volumes of the House Select Committee reports and in that is George Demorshield's uh uh memoirs uh Amapaci
1:55
and in there he tells how he took Oswald to the home of Admiral Chester Brutin
2:00
and tried to get him a job uh with uh at Collins radio where Brutin was an executive
2:06
And then I read u in the New York Times uh back issues of November 1st 1963
2:13
um a CIA raership was identified uh uh in the front page of the New York Times
2:19
as being the Rex was being uh was owned by uh uh Collins radio Uh so I all of a
2:27
sudden uh I I'm developing a file on this company that I had never heard of before And so I wrote them a letter uh
2:34
asking for uh Collins had been purchased and merged with uh Rockwell International
2:40
So I wrote to Rockwell and I asked them for copies of their annual reports for 1962 3 and 4 And when I received them um
2:47
I was surprised to to read they were proud of the fact that the Collins radios were used in the Air Force One
2:54
the uh cabinet plane and all the strategic air command bombers
2:59
And their radio communications were coordinated out of a uh uh radio station
3:06
a relay station in uh Cedar Rapids Iowa where Collins radio uh headquarters was
3:12
located They had a a building there uh they called the fishbowl because it was
3:18
a a glass house and that's where what they called the Liberty Station was and and the Liberty Station was the relay
3:25
station for all the the the Air Force One the cabinet plane and the the sack
3:30
bombers So I uh developed an interest in the company and I I obtained uh Collins bio
3:37
and the company was founded by Arthur Collins who in Cedar Rapids as a ch
3:43
young man uh built his own radio receiver and in the 30s his radio was
3:49
the only radio that could pick up the uh radio communications from Admiral Bird who was on his Arctic expeditions So
3:56
here's this young teenager in Cedar Rapids receiving these uh uh radio communications from Admiral Bird in the
4:03
Arctic and relaying the messages to the the military in Washington And he
4:09
started a little company from his garage And because of his relationship with the Navy he his company received a lot of
4:17
military contracts during World War II And then after the war um he became
4:23
friends with General Lame And Lame was a ham radio buff and had his own ham radio
4:30
signals uh uh code sign sign off code and um and him and Collins became good
4:36
friends and and I'm sure Lame helped arrange for Collins radios to be used by
4:41
the Air Force One and the bombers fleet So um um in reading um the history of
4:49
Collins uh he talks about how the military decided at some point that they
4:54
wanted to relocate their defense industries into the Dallas Fort Worth area and Collins opened up a factory in
5:02
Richardson uh uh Bell Helicopter relocated there as did um uh other uh
5:11
General Dynamics all these companies all relocated to Dallas Fort Worth at the same time for
5:17
security reasons and they discovered according to Collins that there was no u
5:23
uh graduate study program in that area that would develop the engineers they
5:28
needed to to build these companies they had to uh uh recruit engineers from out
5:33
out of state So they founded a uh graduate research center in in tech in
5:39
Dallas and Art Collins became the first uh director of this uh advanced research
5:45
uh graduate research study center and u in 1963 when John F Kennedy was invited
5:52
to Dallas He had first was invited to u uh to receive a u a degree from Texas
5:59
Christian University but at the last minute u the uh trustees of this
6:05
university decided they didn't want to give Kennedy the uh degree So uh they had to come up with another place and
6:12
excuse for him to be there So they had him uh they had him uh u give a a speech
6:19
before the uh civic association which was honoring the uh advanced research
6:25
center And if you read John F Kennedy's uh undelivered speech that he gave was
6:31
supposed to give uh a half hour after he was uh murdered In the very first
6:36
paragraph he mentions this research center that uh uh Art Collins was the director of in Dallas at the time
6:44
Well um in 1979 u the LBJ library released a edited
6:52
version of the Air Force One radio tapes on a cassette three cassettes And I
6:57
obtained the copy of this and uh I was dissatisfied with the original transcript that they um accompanied the
7:05
tapes Uh not only was it inaccurate when you listen to it but they misidentified
7:11
a lot of the u u places mentioned on the tapes Uh for instance when they
7:18
mentioned the Liberty Station according to the official transcript it was the White House and I knew that it was the
7:24
Cedar Rapids relay station So I took took me many months but I developed my
7:29
own transcript of the u of the edited tape that they released from the LBJ library and I posted it on the internet
7:37
u when the internet came along and then about uh three or four years ago um
7:42
General Clifton uh his estate decided to sell his personal effects and among his
7:48
effects uh was a uh realtore white house communication agency tape of the Air
7:55
Force One Radio Communications and they actually had two exact copies of the same tape U and they donated one to the
8:04
National Archives and they sold the other one for uh half a million dollars was the asking price I don't know what
8:09
happened to it but the copy that they gave to the archives I I got a copy of and I made a transcript of that and
8:15
compared it to the tape that they released from the LBJ library and discovered that it was a half hour
8:21
longer but it kicks in The Clifton tape kicks in about 10 minutes into the LBJ
8:26
library tape So they're they both contain unique information So I also the Clifton tape has a half a
8:34
dozen uh what they call patches that aren't on the LBJ tape that were edited
8:39
out of the LBJ library tape So we have an indication of what they edited out So
8:45
I made a transcript of the Clifton tape and I combined the two I put them in a chronological order and combined them
8:52
And um uh one day uh I listened to the uh National Public Radio do an artic a
8:58
story on the uh Trevor Martin murder case in Florida And they interviewed a u
9:04
forensic acoustical uh uh a forensic acoustical specialist Ed Premu who u who
9:13
testified at that trial about the uh uh cell phone conversations So I called Amy
9:20
uh Premier and I asked him if he was interested in the White House uh I mean in the Air Force One radio tapes and he
9:26
said he was and I told him of the problem of having the two tapes and he said he would try to combine them which
9:32
he spent the entire summer uh uh after that three or four months working on these tapes and he effectively combined
9:39
them using my transcript as a guide Uh so we now have a uh one seamless uh uh
9:47
uh copy of of the Air Force One tape and one of his employees uh take took the
9:54
tape that he combined and added my transcript to it So uh you can hear it
9:59
and read my transcript as you're listening to it And last October at the Wet Conference I presented that tape and
10:06
we released it to the public and we we put it online And um uh since then um
10:14
I worked with Ed and a guy named Jeff Carter and we tried to uh cut down the 2
10:20
and 1 half hour tape to less than two hours We took the dead air out and we took some of the noise out and we made a
10:27
a very high quality audio only version of the tape that's less than two hours
10:33
and we broke that into u eight 15minute sections that we're going to uh release
10:40
hopefully as a radio program and I'm going to introduce each of the eight sections with a description of what
10:46
you're hearing and who's on them and ordinary people that can understand what's going on And because the tape's
10:53
so long I I can't play the whole tape today but u I have a a a 10-minute uh
11:00
summary of what what's on the tape and it gives you a sample of what what is on it and what it sounds like And I'll play
11:07
that and then I'll open up to questions if you have any
11:23
I'm Bill Kelly I'm a JFK assassination researcher I run the blog called JFK
11:28
Counterc The Air Force One radio tapes are the black box of the assassination accident
11:35
And they tell us a lot What's not on the tapes is even maybe more important What
11:41
the uh military excised from the tapes The one Christian did not have access to
11:46
the Air Force One radio tapes and nor did they ask for them The first hint of them came out in William Manchester's
11:53
book when he went to the White House and LBJ allowed him to read the transcript of the unedited tapes that he glossed
11:58
from The LBJ library released their copy of the tape in the late '7s and that was
12:04
a cassette tape It was about an hour and a half long Now the Clifton tapes were found among the effects of Air Force aid
12:11
to the President General Chester Clifton And this tape is about a half hour longer than the old LBJ library tape
12:18
that we've had for years But both tapes contain unique information
12:23
sir Colonel Norman General's agent right general is in a C140 Last three numbers
12:30
are 497 Sam C140 497 Last three numbers Right He's
12:36
inbound His code name is Grandson And I want to
12:41
talk to him grandson Okay So we'll see what we can do We're real busy with Air Force One right now
12:49
Okay Uh you don't have a capability to work more than one huh uh well we're running Air Force One on two different
12:55
frequencies We're giving them two different patches at one time right now and that's all we can do The Flip tape
13:00
is a realtore tape so it's an older generation tape a better quality tape It's labeled White House Communication
13:07
Agency and we think that from the information on this tape we might be able to track down where the other tapes
13:13
are We know a lot of what's not on the tapes because three reporters William Manchester TH White and Pierre Salinger
13:21
were given access to a transcript of the unedited tapes So we know the unedited tapes existed At one time these three
13:28
reporters quoted items off the tapes that aren't on there today They edited out a lot of the military references I
13:35
have a liberty on priority patch
13:44
stand Okay sir One of the unique aspects of my research
13:51
is the identity of the Liberty Station Collins Radio They were the Liberty
13:56
Station When you listen to the tapes you hear them talk Liberty Liberty give me this frequency uh set me with this relay
14:04
They asked Liberty Station 100 times on the tapes to do something And the Liberty Station is the Collins radio
14:10
headquarters in Cedar Rapids Iowa where they had the contract for the radio
14:16
relays of all the communications aboard Air Force One and the cabinet planes and
14:21
the strategic air command General Rome's bomber fleet I was already familiar with Collins
14:28
radio because on November 1st 1963 the New York Times reported that the CIA
14:33
raider ship that had dropped off Commandos in Cuba was leased to the Collins radio company of Richardson
14:40
Texas which is affiliated with the one in in Cedar Rapids So Collins was
14:46
serving as a cover for the CIA raership on November 1st 1963
14:52
and they had worked with the CIA and other military uh operations before In
14:57
fact Art Collins the founder of the company was a personal friend of Air Force General Curtis Lame who was a ham
15:04
radio buff Lame gave all the strategic air command contracts to Collins and
15:10
they also received the contracts to handle the Air Force One radio communications
15:16
If you read a book called Kuda Practical Handbook it tells you how to conduct a
15:21
coup And if the assassination was in fact a real coup data the coup members would have to control the communications
15:28
That's part of the uh key elements of a coup We look at the communications links here and Collins radio and what's going
15:34
on And we see that those people that were in charge and had control over the communications network hated Kennedy
15:41
Lame and these people despised Kennedy and were glad he was killed They were his enemies
15:50
At the time of the assassination Air Force One pilot James Swindell was listening to the Secret Service
15:55
transmissions from the Dallas motorcade on Charlie channel which if the Charlie channel is recorded it will contain the
16:02
sounds of the the final two shots President Kennedy had ordered the Air
16:07
Force One radio transmissions recorded only when the plane is in the air So when LBJ got back to Air Force One he
16:14
made a few phone calls that were not recorded or they said they weren't recorded Those conversations are
16:20
suspicious LBJ called a lawyer named Goldberg from the Air Force One and he
16:26
also talked to another lawyer named Jay Whitey Bullion Bullion was a tax attorney LBJ said "I'll have to sell my
16:32
Hallebertton stock now." And of course Sally Burton was the Texas company that was one of the big defense contractors
16:38
that got a lot of business when LBJ became president The other call was to a lawyer named Goldberg and he told LBJ to
16:45
be sworn in right away and to have Sarah used do it There's no mention of Goldberg in any of the mainstream books
16:51
or the official record We only learned about it from Goldberg's obituary when he died When the plane took off the uh
16:58
White House communication agency apparently began to tape record all of the conversations and there were three
17:04
radios on board that were being used at the time and all three were busy the whole time the plane was in the air 2
17:10
hours and 17 minutes So we estimate there was three radios going for over
17:15
two hours There should be at least 6 hours of tape conversation but in fact we only have 2 hours That was the
17:23
pinnacle of our government there all in one plane Trying to figure out what happened in those 2 hours and 17 minutes
17:29
will tell us a lot about what happened in the assassination The cabinet plane with the cabinet members on it were over
17:36
the Pacific Ocean at the time of the assassination and their response to the
17:41
assassination is really important Pierre Salinger was on that flight and he contacted the White House situation room
17:47
and attempted to get all the information he could on what was happening in Dallas Situation room is the wayside You read
17:54
me over This is a situation room I read you all available information on president Over All available information
18:02
on president follows Uh Donald and Governor Connelly have been hit in the
18:09
car in which they were riding We do not know information Mr Bramley Smith is back
18:16
here in the situation room now We are getting our information over the pickers Over Uh that is affirmative Affirmative
18:22
Please uh keep us advised on here This plane on which secretary of state under
18:27
cabinet minister headed for Japan turning around returning to Halo will arrive there roughly 2 hours Over We
18:34
need all information to decide whether some party should go directly to Dallas Over
18:39
Uh roger You wish information as to whether some members of that party should go to Dallas i Affirmative
18:45
Affirmative Do you have anything else we side no Any
18:51
other information all right The uh Associated Press is coming out now with a bullet to the
18:57
effect that they believe the president was hit in the head That just came in The question of how the Air Force One
19:03
received the information about Oswalt being the assassin reportedly came from the White House situation room where the
19:10
Navy aid Oliver Howlet was telling Air Force One Oswald was the assassin and
19:15
there was no conspiracy This has also been attributed to M George Bundy None of this is on the tape that we have but
19:21
we do know that Oliver Howlet the guy who is heard on the tapes talking to Air Force One knew Oswald his previous
19:27
assignment was the US embassy in Moscow where he was a Navy attaches and his
19:33
wife was Snider's secretary So when Oswald defected three years earlier he handed his passport to Snider How's wife
19:40
was right there and later testified about Oswald's behavior And so when Oliver Howitt in the situation room was
19:47
telling the Air Force One that Oswald was the assassin he knew Oswald which I find astounding coincidence I think
19:54
there's other tapes out there that we can look for and maybe locate and someday in the future we can have a
20:00
complete picture of what happened on that return flight on November 22nd 1963
20:11
When I when I first received the uh the second Cliff Carter tape I was
20:17
transcribing it and I noticed the differences between the two and I I isolated the aspects that were edited
20:24
out of the LBJ tape and one of them was the uh reference to uh uh Colonel Dorman
20:32
was trying to get in touch with Lame and um I looked up his him in the phone book
20:38
or on the internet and found right away that Um he had been killed in Vietnam 3 years later He was a fighter pilot in
20:45
Vietnam and he died there Uh but his wife lived in Princeton not far from where I lived his widow And I got her on
20:52
the phone and I said "Is this Mrs Dorman the widow of Colonel Dorman Lamese?" And she said "Yes." And I said "Well I'm
20:59
transcribing the transcript of the Air Force One radio communications and your husband is on the tape." And she says
21:05
"Well I uh I asked her about that day." and she says "Well I was working in the White House that day." She was working
21:11
with the uh gentleman named Castro who was responsible for the remodeling of the H White House uh in line with Jackie
21:18
Kennedy's wishes And she said she received a phone call from her husband who said that uh the Kennedy had been
21:25
killed and that for she was supposed to leave the White House immediately and go home and stay home And um she gave me
21:32
the name of her son and phone number and I talked to her son and her son was only a teenager at the time but he u
21:39
witnessed the uh the funeral um in his backyard Uh he they lived right right
21:44
off of the Arlington Cemetery And he said that his father uh took him to General Lame's plane uh which was called
21:51
Speckled Trout It was a elite communications plane uh that was in in a
21:56
a time of an emergency it would go in the air and uh uh communicate to nuclear uh uh strikes and he described what that
22:04
plane was like and and uh and I learned more about that And also on the tape u
22:10
there's a references to u a stranger uh Pierre Salinger relates to the story of how he uh received uh orders from um the
22:20
the situation room from a man cenamed stranger who told them to turn the plane
22:26
around and come back to Washington and don't go to Dallas and um the secretary of state Rusk on the plane says well we
22:33
can't take a orders from a guy named stranger who is this person telling us to come back So they called back to the
22:39
situation room and said "Who is stranger?" And they stranger says "Well there's a code book on board in the in the safe of the pilot's safe." So they
22:47
went to the safe uh uh the pilot safe and the code book was missing So they come back and this is all on the tape Uh
22:54
they says "We need the identity of stranger The code book is missing." And a few minutes later the the word comes
23:01
back that the answer to your question is uh Major Harold Uh
23:07
Patterson Major Harold Patterson is stranger And Pierre Salinger says "Well I know this guy uh Patterson He's a very
23:14
reliable military officer and he wouldn't give us the wrong information." And he tells that to Rusk And so they
23:20
turn the plane around and begin to fight back to u uh Honolulu and uh and
23:26
Washington So I looked up uh Patterson's name in in Google and I found him in
23:31
Virginia and got him on the phone right away and and he said "Yes I was in charge of the White House situation
23:37
room." And yes the code book was missing and I did have to reveal my identity over the open air uh uh thing And he
23:45
also confirmed that Oliver Howlet was there and that they communicated frequently with Air Force One in the
23:50
military And um he gave me a lot of uh interesting information And um
23:57
uh and then um a couple weeks later uh Jefferson Worley called Patterson and
24:03
Patterson clammed up and refused to talk to him But he did talk to me for about a half hour and confirmed everything that
24:09
was on the tape But uh we're trying to get Patterson to uh to loosen up and and and and tell us more about what was
24:16
happening in there And I asked Patterson I said ' There's a book uh on the history of the situation room and were
24:22
you interviewed for that and he said 'N no you're the first reporter to contact me about this information about what what happened that day in that in that
24:30
room And u the effort so far I have an appealing to the uh Air Force to uh the
24:36
Secretary of the Air Force I have appealed the negative response to my Freedom of Information Act request for
24:43
Air Force records and u hopefully the uh Secretary of the Air Force uh a woman uh
24:50
she will be more sympathetic to our requests and try to help us uh locate what we believe still exists and that is
24:57
the unedited version of the White House uh uh communication agency uh radio
25:03
communications with Air Force One And I believe this record exists today I think if they destroyed it there would have
25:09
been a record of its destruction And I think that anyone who was ordered to destroy this tape would refuse to do so
25:15
And I think that the discovery of the Clifton tape is a example of how we can still locate records today that are out
25:23
there that we haven't discovered yet And I think the unedited Air Force One radio
25:29
communication tape is one of those records that u that we can and should locate soon and it would be a big uh
25:36
piece of the puzzle of what happened that day Thank you very much Is there any questions
25:46
can can you say something about the dialogue on the tape about finding May well uh they request uh they request
25:54
Lame and we we discovered that Lame was uh in northern Michigan at the time with his family and he took a private plane
26:02
from uh the cabin in Michigan where he was fishing and hunting to uh he said he was going to go to Toronto where there's
26:08
a a base but instead he went to a really small base nearby and Andrews Air Force
26:15
sent uh the Andrews Air Force Base in Washington sent a private a a small jet
26:21
to pick him up Not his normal uh uh communication jet the speckled trout So
26:27
uh Lame returned u to uh Andrews um uh
26:32
from uh Canada and um he apparently was taken by surprise by the uh
26:38
assassination He he was unprepared for it uh and u u there is no uh mention on
26:47
the tape of what the important message that Colonel Dorman had for Lame He said I have a very important message He's
26:53
going to arrive at Andrews in a half hour and I have to get this message to him before he arrives And so we never
26:59
learn what that message was Um at least we don't haven't learned so far But u
27:05
lame did not take his regular plane back uh from Canada He took another plane and
27:12
u and we never did discover what the important message was that Dorman was trying to get to him
27:19
Yeah Bill is there any discussion on the uh about uh where the autopsy would be
27:24
held yes there's there's a whole u there's much dialogue on the tape about whether
27:30
it should be a Walder Reed or or Bethesda and um and that's on the tape
27:36
and and uh I'm going to put links to all these sites u u on my blog if you want
27:42
to go to my blog JFK Counterc I'll have links soon to all the uh uh important uh
27:49
sites where you can either listen to the tape and see the listen to the read the transcript or listen to the highfidelity
27:56
uh uh tape by itself u and or read my transcript uh combined transcript and
28:03
see for yourself what they what they discuss Yeah um that guy Carl Mats that worked
28:11
for um is there any um is that just a coincidence that um I don't know there's
28:18
uh my file on Collins radio is now expanded uh it's very there's a dozen uh
28:24
connections to Collins radio for instance uh um Oswald's wife Marina
28:30
married uh Porter who was an employee of Collins radio and um um a Collins radio
28:37
executive from Cuba u was murdered in Miami uh in 1965 So um there's a I have
28:45
a in 1993 at the Copa convention in in D uh in DC I did a report on the uh
28:53
Collins radio connections that since then I have added to but I uh I'll have
28:58
a link up to u my Collins radio connections article as well which I've completely expanded on since my 93
29:06
presentation And I've added new things all the time as I learn them about the company
29:12
But yes Carl Matther I learned today that he was not only a friend of Tippet and came to his house to console the
29:17
widow after the assassination but Carl Matther was with Tippet earlier in the morning that day What kind of
29:23
documentation do you have of that of matters being with Tippet in the
29:28
morning i don't I just learned that myself from Bill Simpage yesterday So
29:33
that's very interesting Yeah And Bill's a very good reporter and I believe that he has good evidence of that Yeah I
29:40
should know this Forgive me but where was Mc George Bundy when he was in
29:45
He was in the situation room So he's in the same place as the other with Patterson and Howitt they they were in
29:51
that room and they were communicating with uh with Air Force One through the Liberty Station So his dialogue is
29:57
interspersed with this other dialogue Yes And we know a lot of what's not on the tape today from the three repor four
30:06
reporter well three reporters were given access at at the white house they were uh let to read and quote from a
30:13
transcript of the unedited tape and all three William Manchester th White and
30:19
Pierre Salinger quote sections of the transcript that aren't on the tape So
30:25
what they thought was important to quote in their books are are have been excised from the tape that we have today Well
30:31
Manchester's papers are available I forget where his draft and research for
30:37
his own books Yeah Well he he's he's pretty he's kept a lot of that from the review board
30:43
Manchester did but he quotes uh uh he quotes uh General or uh Mc George Bundy
30:50
telling Air Force One that that uh the assassination was the result of a lone assassin and there was no conspiracy And
30:58
um uh Max Holland wrote a book on all this called the assassination tapes in which he quotes extensively from the Air
31:05
Force One tapes but he leaves out the whole Liberty Station and and the significant connections But he does uh
31:11
uh reveal the fact that Howlet was uh was on in the uh situation room and he
31:18
was also in Moscow when in the room when Oswald defected which I think is pretty
31:24
uh amazing coincidence Um wasn't at the time um right around
31:30
the assassination for about an hour all communications in the White House went off Yeah Uh the situation room able Well
31:37
the situation room was working on a radio They weren't they weren't using a landline They were uh and then the radio
31:43
is a a a public airways Anyone that has a a radio a shortwave radio that knew
31:50
the frequencies they were using there they could listen in And there was a group in Colorado of Amateur Ham radio
31:56
buffs who routinely listened into Air Force One radio communications because they knew what the frequencies were that
32:03
that Libert Collins did that And I think one of these amateur guys could have taped it you know like there could be a
32:09
tape out there from somebody that and also uh uh Liddell uh the the University
32:16
of Miami professor who wrote a book on the Cuban connections He says that Castro himself told the radio listening
32:24
post uh in Lords Cuba to tune in to Texas that day because that's where
32:29
Kennedy was going to be and that they he wanted a t copy of the Air Force One radio communications So he ordered his
32:35
people that listened into these things Uh so Cuba has a copy of the tape that our guys won't give us You know we might
32:42
be able to get a copy of the tape from from Castro maybe But I believe that we will one day have a copy of the unedited
32:48
tapes because there's so many possibilities of obtaining it And I think it it's going to answer a lot of
32:54
our questions about what they decided about the uh that they edited out and
33:00
they thought was they thought should should be secret and they cut that out especially about the
33:06
autopsy uh about the military response U
33:11
anyway I think that one day we will have a a more full picture of of of what we
33:17
are now having a we are now missing pieces of this puzzle Who owns the one that they paid a half a million for uh
33:24
yes It was a a company uh Rob Raab is a auction house out of Philadelphia and
33:31
they specialize in antiquities and like uh historic signatures and photographs
33:37
and u they had a a market price of uh half a million and I tried to contact
33:44
them to find out if they ever sold it uh but they never responded back to me But
33:49
it's RAAB Uh it's a company in in um Philadelphia that has the uh the Clifton
33:57
tapes So they're just trying to sell them Yeah They just want to market it But they had two copies So they gave one to the archives and the archives posted
34:04
it You you can listen But the Clifton tape is not complete And what we did was
34:10
com combine the two And you can get the combination of the two uh from Ed Premier's site uh uh Premier uh Forensic
34:19
Acoustics And I'll I'll have the link to that on my blog up uh later today
34:25
Do we do we have any sense of
34:31
all the persons who are present in the situation at that time no but I think Patterson could tell us that and that's
34:38
why we have to get uh Mr Patterson to talk Um I have u uh acquired the u
34:47
a close personal association with a u uh a guy named Katz and he was the um army
34:54
um person in charge of the uh continuity of government in the White House that day And he said to me last week uh that
35:01
he knew Patterson and and he wants me to give him the uh contact information and
35:06
he said that he will contact Patterson and tell him that we are legitimate researchers and we're just looking for
35:13
the truth and not trying to u uh we're not conspiracy theorists but we're actually a a researchers trying to
35:20
determine what actually happened that day and hopefully he'll cooperate with us
35:27
Anything else well thank you for coming and I appreciate it