Bonus: Replies From David Vandrunen On State Illegitimacy

In this bonus episode, we interview Dr. David VanDrunen. We consider his reply on several points to Pastor Taylor Drummond's critical article that we discuss in episode 17. The title of that article is "Fool's Gold?: A libertarian analysis of VanDrunen's account of state legitimacy" and it examines particular arguments in David VanDrunen's book _Politics After Christendom_ .
VanDrunen expresses his appreciation for Drummond's article and our episode discussing it, raises questions concerning immoral complicity if the state is taken to be illegitimate, offers some clarification about his (up to this point) not having differentiated monopoly states from non-monopolistic civil governance in his writing, raises questions concerning what sort of consent is normative for the customary legal order's own legitimacy and its authorizing function, raises the question of when abuse or injustice might categorically disqualify one from rightfully possessing authoritative office and its relation to political resistance, and, at the end, responds to our proposal how a fuller, non-aggressionist view of proportionality in the lex talionis of the Noahic Covenant entails a conclusive argument in favor of the exclusively "protectionist" purpose of civil governance law.

https://reformedlibertarians.com/bonusC

*Main Points of Discussion*

00:00 Introduction
00:09 Episode description
02:15 Prefatory statements
05:37 The question of immoral complicity
16:30 Clarifying matters of complicity
21:13 The question of civil governance vs. monopoly state
27:55 Distinguishing normativity from de facto (non-)conformity to norms
31:00 The question of legitimizing consent
35:56 Distinguishing compliance under duress (by aggression)
40:45 The question of abuse/tyranny and de-legitimization
45:20 The question of a conclusive protectionist-only view
49:32 Remaining uncertainty about Scriptural “regulative principle” of civil governance
52:29 Closing remarks

*Additional Resources*

About David VanDrunen
https://www.wscal.edu/faculty-member/david-vandrunen/
– author page at Mongerism
https://www.monergism.com/authorsspeakers/david-vandrunen
– bib at ResearchGate
https://www.researchgate.net/scientific-contributions/David-VanDrunen-2115184386

Episode 17: David VanDrunen’s View Of Civil Government, with Taylor Drummond
https://reformedlibertarians.com/017

“Fool’s Gold?: A libertarian analysis of VanDrunen’s account of state legitimacy,” by Taylor Drummond
https://libertarianchristians.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/05/CLR-5-Drummond.pdf

_Politics After Christendom_ by David VanDrunen
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0310108845/

“The Protectionist Purpose of Law: A Moral Case from the Biblical Covenant with Noah” by David VanDrunen
https://www.pdcnet.org/jsce/content/jsce_2015_0035_0002_0101_0117

Episode 2: What Does Romans 13 Say About Civil Government?
https://reformedlibertarians.com/002

Episode 8: The Boetie Option - the peaceful underthrow of the state
https://reformedlibertarians.com/008

Episode 14: Does Political Representation Make Sense?, with Gerard Casey
https://reformedlibertarians.com/014

Episode 15: Can Christian Civil Government Be Theocratic?
https://reformedlibertarians.com/015

Episode 18: Politics And The Church’s Mission: What Should The Church Teach About Civil Government?
https://reformedlibertarians.com/018

Audio of Answering 10 Objections to Libertarian Anarchism by Roderick Long
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsUjJ7TOhgk&list=PLwrDNUO5MDu8WYU5oB7l037lvAEjSoPBr&index=13

The Reformed Libertarians Podcast is a project of the Libertarian Christian Institute: https://libertarianchristians.com/ and a member of the Christians for Liberty Network: https://christiansforliberty.net

Audio Production by Podsworth Media - https://podsworth.com