"Badgeman" newJFKshow - Ruth Paine & George De Mohrenchildt (Oswald Handlers)

3/4/2017
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[Music]
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not all right welcome to the new JFK show number 138 tonight we're going to
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do badge man we've got we've got Dr Jim Fetzer Larry Rivera and Don Fox so we do
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have a full crew on deck tonight uh I was going through some boxes and um I
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came across this piece of paper had a few coffee stains on it and uh I
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realized that Richard hook had given this to me at the Santa Barbara conference that Jim Fester held in um on
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the 50th Anniversary that Larry Rivera was actually one of the speakers that's when I I met him there so anyway there's
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the um the main thesis here is that there's 12 points of the Mormon
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photograph being that badg man being real and of course we discovered badg
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man through the marry [ __ ] photograph so we're gonna go ahead and start with the very first photograph and
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see down at the bottom Jack White re re realized that there was a a a a poor
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point in the photograph that had to be on the line of sight from the from the camera when Mary took the photograph
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this was all related to whether Mary was in the street or on the grass and that you you could find here see at the
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bottom right there there's this intersection of the windows with the the top of this little prola where zuder was
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standing that creates a line of sight on which the camera had to be situated so
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David mik and I went down to de Plaza we had a theat light we had a you know a
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meter stick and all that to line it up in accordance with Jack's line of sigh
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and what we discovered was that in fact Mary had been in the street precisely as
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she and Jean Hill who was with her had always maintained where for those who
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are new to the case Mary had a polari camera she would take photographs and
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hand them to Jean who'd coat them with a preservative and then put them in her pocket after the assassination they were
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approached by agents who had them under surveillance took the photographs from her took took Jean in particular to a a
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distant building and and interrogated her it was all very shocking it was Jean
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who by the way gave the name grassy null to this area we're looking at in the photographs Larry add what you'd like to
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add here yeah the person who uh who took took uh Mormon's uh pictures was Jim
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Underwood who some people you know have done research on and then uh and wasn't
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really could have been that he wasn't really who he was but I I think Don had a lot some uh points to make that he
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made earlier if he wanted to make them again and I'll just join in sure okay um
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you the Mormon photo is one of the most famous images from the assassination and it it really hit the
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main main stream Consciousness I think of the research Community uh with the men who killed Kennedy Back in 88 and
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with Jack White and our guy Gary Mack um doing a lot of work on that and in a in
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a later episode of the men who killed Kennedy uh Tom Wilson uh took this photo
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and he ran it through some uh uh some processing where he he used to uh um he
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was like a quality control guy for steel man manufacturing and he would uh he
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would have you know this is back in the you know the early 90s and it was 256
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you know uh color of the gray scale basically but from that he was able to rebuild a a
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mold of Kennedy's head wound from this from this picture he built a
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three-dimensional model of the head and you can see the two bullet
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fragments and he you know he he uh was able with the Mormon photo he laid out
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all the all the measurements in a into a computer and he determined that the
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angle of the the bullet shot was coming up into Kennedy's Temple that's right
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coming Larry you were saying that um this I was under the impression that this was one of the photographs that got
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out and was um in the newspapers before there was any altering going on but you're were saying That's not not the
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case no no I'll tell you what Roy told told me but go ahead Don finish what uh finish your thought so yeah um just to to wrap it up
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so Tom Wilson was able to rebuild you know whether it was you know it whether
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the photo was altered or not he was able to rebuild a uh a model of the head wound and he also confirmed the presence
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of badg man in the photo um just for a general orientation
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badan is almost directly up in the center behind the wall here we focus in on that area which of course in this
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image is obscure but you know uh there are two issues here about Dawn Tom
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Wilson's reconstruction John costella who has a PHD in electromagnetism and I
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discuss this extensively and we couldn't figure out what would enable him to take
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this two-dimensional photograph and turn it into a 3dimensional study and I found
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his work fascinating but we could never figure out how it was done number one
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number yeah nobody nobody nobody else could reproduce it either number two David manik and I went to the ground
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level sewer opening David climbed into the sewer while I was there the angle
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was wrong the shot that we're talking about here appears to have been fired
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from the intersection of the triple underpass and the picket fence and above ground sewer opening there where with a
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little bit of camouflage it's a perfect location and if you look at this is the third point then if you look at the
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photograph look at Jack's right shoulder there's a chunk there that seems to be either his his skull his hair whatever
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on his shoulder number four and Larry you may be able to address this since this is
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supposed to have been taken a fraction of a second after the bullet that hit in the vicinity of the right Temple and
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blew out the back back of his head the wound that Tom somehow may have
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reconstructed it seems to me we know Bobby haras was just you know hit with
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debris so hard that it made him think initially he himself had been shot and
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therefore I asked shouldn't we be seeing that debris in this
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Photograph okay just a couple of other points okay what what Tom Wilson did was
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the the way he was able to you know not that I'm an expert on you know photographic you know photography or you
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know analysis or anything but as I understand it what he was talking about was he could take the picture of the
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tree there and then the tree Shadow and then from that he was able
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to kind of like what Larry does with blunder now turn that into a 3D
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operation but that I mean that all of that is beyond my skill of uh you know I
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can't that was like uh you know uh a very early precursor come forward Larry
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come forward closer yeah very early precursor of what we can do now with blender you know uh it's we'll be able
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to reproduce exactly uh the head and everything and and the and the wound and and uh and the
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angle of badge man the distance uh we'll be able to do everything and and prove
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while the badg men was there that's uh that's in the near future go to the next one and you'll see where there's a the
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image of a fingerprint it's not too bad in this particular copy which appears to have been deliberately imposed on this
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polari Photograph to obus skate what's always been puzzling to me if they were going to deliberately obus skate
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features of the photograph why the escort officers that I don't get Larry
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oh well Beverly Brunson said that uh they were in the in the uh field of of
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view the uh uh the line of sight of of the of the sniper okay from the D Tex and I'm sorry
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from the sixth floor of of the schoolbook uh depository if you if you plot that line from there and due to the
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Downs slope of Elm Street then you would have to uh necessarily have to take out
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the the uh the motorcycle cop because people would have inferred that uh you
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know the the line of sight they just didn't add up so you're saying what you're saying Larry is if the gunman had
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actually been in the six floor sers nare we know for a fact he wasn't there but if he had been then the presence of the
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motorcycle escort officers like the Great Oak Tree would have obfuscated the shot so this would have been a disproof
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of the official account of the assassination absolutely absolutely now uh we uh
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didn't discuss you know some of the alterations because uh you can't see them here but in the previous slide
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where Bill Newman is missing his entire shoulder yeah uh they're on the right
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and if you I've done a lot of studies on on the uh motorcycle cop that looks like he's elevated there on the right which
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uh should have been Jackson uh it wasn't Shany I've done overlays uh on that and
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it's not Shany at all and and that's that's pretty conclusive but the
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position of of that motorcycle Cup and the features and the in the chin strap
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of the uh of the helmet uh that in in particular that feature in particular
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it's completely different if you compare with uh the chin strap and other all all the other images of Shamy or any of the
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other motorcycle cops the escort uh that chin strap was was a lot wider and what
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you see here very thin which probably doesn't even pass as
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a chin strap and I I found that very interesting uh for those who who think that the mor Mormon photograph has not
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been altered well okay and and one one other point I that that I'd like to make
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is that my theory has always been that one of the main main reasons why the zuder film was altered um was to obus
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skate where the limo was when when the Fatal head shot occurred and my theory
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is is that and from what I've heard from some of the witnesses is that the limo was almost to the steps where you can
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see those people um on the steps there watching the motorcade that it was almost to the
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steps when the Fatal head shot occurred and that would be right next to that storm
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sewer yeah hson don don don I'm telling you we got down in the storm sewer uh
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David and I agreed the angle was wrong now I don't know what more to tell you I
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mean we can work it out with mathematical Precision I expect with Gary's uh with Larry blender that
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will'll be able to reconstruct all of this better but but David also believes that it was further toward the steps
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which raises questions about the entire scenario here I mean what shot then would he be responding to you
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know if Tom Wilson has got a reconstruction to the back of the head wound then it has to be the shot that
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that David you and I and others all believe actually took place further down the street so how do we reconcile that
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and and with is entirely visible in frame 343 I mean in shocking
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detail uh with that work that we did uh last year that you also presented in no
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last November at at the JFK conference gym uh Z frame
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343 is just unbelievable you can see the size of the uh the blowout in the back
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of the head it's just unmistakable because Jackie's White Glove serves as a background for that the the the
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definition of of the magnitude of that wound that's right that's right taken from the opposite so we need we need to
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do something to get the interplay between the zuder even though it's
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altered and and the Mormon to see if we can figure it out by some sort of method
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of successive approximation we have to reverse engineer altered evidence to
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come up with an answer so that's right that's exactly right Don that's it's it's a best effort you know this some of
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this may never get settled you know 100% but we have to take our best shot at it
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right absolutely and the coherence of the totality of the evidence is our guide as to whether we've got the pieces
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of the puzzle put together right now before Gary goes to the next slide
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almost directly in the middle you know just above the concrete structure it it
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turns out that Jack White and Gary Mack were able to ER two figures one of whom
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is known as badge man the other is uh got a helmet on and seems to have been
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assisting him and they actually did a colorized version to bring out what was going on there what they had discerned
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which Gary now you can go to the next slide yeah see we need we need more in
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between this unfortunately I don't know what other slides have you got Gary you got another one no well it occurs the
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Mormon photograph supposedly occur between three 315 and 316 and that also
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altered where they were in the street actually there's the badge man photograph in uh the best color that we
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have Point number two is that the photograph was verified by MIT in 1982
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to unquestionably be in the men firing a rifle Point number three which we will get to is JFK researcher photo op
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technician Jack White confirmed the three figures and a muzzle flash so that's later on in the Pro presentation
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with the arm army hat guy Arnold as well y we're on point number two right
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now you so uh well I just don't think anyone can understand where this photograph in color came from if they
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don't see the intervening closing into the issue all right so this is where the Mormon
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photograph was supposedly taken at this instant between this one and this is
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around the time that the mor Mormon photograph is supposed to be mind you
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just looking at this look at Jack's head and you see that bright thing on the side of the head yeah they seem to have
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moved that from the back of the head to the side and then blacked out the back of the head where it actually had
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originated yeah we don't see any of that in the Mormon photo well it's taken from the other
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side of course right well yeah but still look at all that all that material there you'd you you'd see some something like
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that if it was at the same time so it must have been yeah if this is legit it must be a split second after the Mormon
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photo was taken yeah supposed to be at that moment and then um this is her and uh we've got
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Beverly Oliver over here and um but then once again this is altered as well they're supposed to be standing in the
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street as Jim's been talking about yeah and one thing I want to make is uh you know our guy Robert groden is out there
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every year and he always puts an X out in the middle of the street where the
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zuder film you can bring zuder Gary zuder ring the bell uh dingling I
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don't have it with me I'll find it okay where Pruder uh said that the Fatal
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head shot occurred Rhoden puts that X way too far up the street I agree and I
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you know I think that's intentional I think he's trying to obfuscate where the actual fatal head shot took place you
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you don't mean to suggest that's his role in JFK research do you I think that's part of it I think that's part of
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it well we asked Beverly Oliver personally she told us it was much further down the street we have um
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actual original footage of her telling us that so um there you go that's right
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that's right so on the point number two the photograph was confirmed by MIT in 1982 that it was a man firing a rifle
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you think that might have made the front pages of the New York Times no no not a
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chance not a CH yeah fake News New York yeah owned by the solsberg family
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yes and um so this seems to be a Kodak
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threepiece but you can totally see the um Dallas Police Department thing there
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there was a lot of speculation as to actually who who that man was uh firing the rifle there who who actually was
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yeah we're gonna get to that a little bit later on there all right so right so on Point number three that JFK
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researcher photo op technician Jack White confirmed the three figures and a
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muzzle flash so uh there's a picture of our man right there and yeah working the slides and the
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definitely the old school Manor but he was on it big time so so didn't you work
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with Jack White quite a bit Dr feter yes yes yes Jack was with us in D Plaza when
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we were testing his hypothesis about the line of sight and confirming that
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thereby that Mary had to have been in the street which of course as I may have already observed she and Jean always
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insisted had been the case there you go anything about uh Jack
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White Don or Larry you you know before I started working with Jim Fetzer I I
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watched a you know a lot of Jack I was a big fan of Jack White on uh you know the men who killed Kennedy and then later on
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I started watching a lot of YouTube stuff that that he had done yeah the great Subud film hoax I've watched it a
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hundred times I think yeah and fake Fram Le oal I've really watched that a bunch
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of times I actually go to sleep watching that sometimes at night
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so all right so now we were just talking about him Tom Wilson confirmed in 1988
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the existence of badge men through computer programs all right so there's our guy right there and uh don was
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talking about him earlier so um yeah the the late great Tom Wilson um
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who who is you know sadly no longer with us to discuss any of this stuff or
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explain how he did what he did he was like the only guy on the planet that
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really knew how to how to use this equipment in the way he did so or the
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only one that would talk about it publicly anyhow well that was that was a dinosaur era man was that was late 80s
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early 90s yeah it says he was a US steel engineer confirmed in 198 the existence
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of badge men and his assistant with his computer programs based on photon he
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called it it was photonics is what he phonics okay used in the jet propulsion
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Laboratories at NASA Space Center in his book a deeper darker Truth by John T
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Phillips so um he was trying hard with the Larry Rivera techniques back then
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but like you said was in the Stone Age I mean yeah could you imagine what Tom Wilson would do
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with blunder yeah no doubt about it all right so now uh next Gordon Arnold's account
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confirms that he was the army man holding the camera on leave just having completed basic training Arnold heard
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and felt Two Shots go over his shoulder and in his film confiscated by two cops
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one holding a rifle immediately after before the shooting Arnold was asked to leave the area by the railro railroad
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overpass so um that was in another one in the men who killed Kennedy too y I
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mean really you can't I mean there there's people that have uh you know there's obviously critics of the men who
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killed Kennedy but you know I I think it's held up very well over time uh you
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know Nigel Turner did an excellent job you know he he didn't get it 100% right but you know who does uh he he did some
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great work massive contribution oh I agree I think for its time it was absolutely stunning work
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yeah there's no question about that yeah so uh you can see him in there right there with his army hat on well he was
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actually on the steps no uh he was in front of the fence yeah was in between I I I just
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wanted to uh say a couple of things on this uh Gordon Arnold if you watch uh
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the rich man's trick that three-hour video that's on YouTube yeah we've debunked some of that though in one of
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our shows oh okay well no I'm just mentioning it I'm just mentioning that
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uh he he proposes that uh Gordon Arnold is is a false flag uh uh witness okay uh
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so you know I'm just mention me mentioning that well if that's true I
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mean if you watch the men who killed Kennedy and you see those close you know the the Reconstruction of that Mormon
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photo and you look at that guy that's in that picture and then you look at Gordon Arnold man it's pretty darn close yeah
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and and another thing on on uh yeah go go ahead Jim I was just gonna add when
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he shown the photograph reconstructed oh yeah he had emotional
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reaction is very powerful and authentic saying that if if he had known
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he was in that proximity to the Assassin one of the shooters he he he doesn't
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think he would would have ever said a word about it that he it's clear he was traumatized by discovering his proximity
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to the to the badge man and he's got he's got a a witness uh uh uh
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congressman yor who said that he saw him dive and reaction to uh report yeah
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that's Ralph yro and and the same The Men Who Kill Kennedy uh mentions that he saw somebody dive in reaction to a
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in the way that you are trained to right and that was what Gordon arold described what he did that he hit the deck yeah
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yeah and and I just wanted to interject real quick uh the only thing that I I love the men who killed Kennedy the only
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thing that I did not agree that I thought was a little far-fetched was that Corsican Mafia angle you know well
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yeah now do I do I think that uh Lucian sarti was badge man
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no was okay you know as I was doing well as I was doing research into perm index
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you know that it it and what Piper talked about is the the Montreal the JFK Montreal connection is you know the
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French Connection it's really the the it's the Jewish connection okay so
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there's there's some there's some links there now yeah what we saw on the men who killed Kennedy you know I think
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we've got some newer more updated info than that so this the one you're talking
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about right here this this is when he became emotional and began to um yeah you know right there so yeah that's
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right Gary so uh what about The Railroad Man have y'all done any work on on him do you mean Hard Hat Man hard hat yeah
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apparently a railroad worker I I don't know if anybody's I haven't heard any theories of who he was would have been
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Jim it was a spotter yeah but who it was in in reality was it of course everybody was was dressed uh for the occasion Jim
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Mars and I both Believe by the way that bad man was Rosco white yeah I think
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that I I I tend to agree with with you guys on that one I think it was a Dallas
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police police officer all right rosos white said it was him firing a rifle two
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shots in his journal recovered by his son in the journal white hey in the
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journal white also confessed to killing 28 Witnesses of the assassination so that's pretty powerful there so this is
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the press conference with his son bringing out this uh information but unfortunately made the blunder of giving
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the Diary of his father how many adult men do you know who keep Diaries and
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aren't working for the CIA to the FBI and of course it disappeared I mean this
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was legally admissible evidence yeah I mean boy giving it to the wrong people oh my goodness he blew
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it so right here this is actually going to our back a little bit to our other show this is Rosco white anyway we got
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this picture here um as far as the backyard photographs so what do you think Larry I I want to say that when
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you put Rosco's head on that body it it's a perfect fit for the body type you
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know that Rosco hat you know it's just unbelievable the fellow that did this you know I really I really got to take
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my hat off you know he was actually more athletic in his build than Lee OS exactly exactly exactly and and he you
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know the the neck especially the neck you know know yeah yeah he would y yep
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and now we should get a photo of him wearing a Dallas police uniform because that's well we do have it we do have it
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but it doesn't look like him at all I already tried that yeah I wanted to talk about the uh
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commedy mag that Don was talking about where you make sure you have a few communist newspapers and in your photo
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but Jack White actually over studying this photograph for as long as he did
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Overlook the fact that the magazine was 11.5 Ines I believe or something like
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that and was able to use it he was just astonished that he never thought of it himself because someone else gave him
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the idea and come to find out Lee wasn't the right height in there yeah you don't
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mean Lee wasn't the right height you mean the man who was standing in for Lee was too short or or alternatively they
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introduced the newspapers too large so that when you did a you laid them off as
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a ruler it it reduced the height of the man in the image it looks to me like Rosco was pretty much the same height as
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Lee in fact but the way they did the photo if you use the newspapers as the ruler he it makes him about 56 when Lee
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was 5'9 or 10 I see so um there we were talking about
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this last week the um famous bump on I think Jack White's got it I mean there
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it is right there the body fits the um bump on the elbow and um you're saying
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that y'all believe that this man is badge man as well yeah the bump on the wrist yeah yeah it
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was from a a fracture or something right yeah broken hand
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probably all right so uh Point number seven Jean Hill saw a muzzle flash and a
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puff of smoke so let's see from the grassy null behind the pig Finch in the
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badge man position firing a rifle and there she is pointing right there to it
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so love that Jean yes this is one of the few witnesses that really never changed
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their story whatsoever um right she was tough lady she was threatened enough
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times yeah I read her book um the LA the last descending witness I believe it was
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yeah that was a good read I mean she went through torture and then finally in the end she was personal friends with
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Kevin Cosner and and Hollywood stars so it um maybe redeemed
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her so so there is a altered photograph right
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Larry Jim Jim knows more more about me about this one yeah of course yeah I mean they weren't on the grass when this
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was going on they were in the street and they were certainly looking no and and and the shoes don't
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forget the shoes they were we wearing black shoes that's right I know yeah
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Jean stepped into the street and called out hey Mr President look this way we want to take your picture and Mary
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snapped it right about that point and also of course was in the street when she took the
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picture so that yeah that's where you can tell that the zuder film the background was it not timed with the
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limo you know that was yeah look at all the effort they put to fake us out about
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all of this look how long it's taken us to sort it out yeah and and not only
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that you're gonna miss your chance to look at the president she's looking behind the limousine just makes no sense
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whatsoever right yeah they were on on the where they were on the grass earlier so you took footage where they were on
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the grass earlier and then you you know move it over using uh Optical
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Printing and here's the two ladies that just happen to be um well their life changed forever life wasn't kind to them
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it's Gan on the left and Mary on the right Mary looks pretty distraught
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actually yeah well I mean nobody who was alive that day is you like uh that's one
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thing Weissberg said was no one who was alive then has recovered from it know
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they were taken to the third floor of the County Records building to this office that overlooked the plaza you
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know and and Jean talks about this where she says you know they had the best view
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of the assassination up there you know right and they asked her how many shots
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she heard and she started talking about the wrong number and they told her no it was impossible there were only three shots shs he said four to six he said no
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you heard three no four to six we're only three you know how in the age know
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what Mary Mormon had heard or Gan Hill had heard how else know that was one of
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the best scenes in the movie JFK yeah and they also took some three shots
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that's all we're willing to say yeah well what about the men on the you know behind the picket fence hey we we will
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take care of that you know we will take care of that right we'll shut up any witness who talks about
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him and if you watch the movie real close uh you can see the real Jean Hill in the background as a
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secretary Stone Earl Warren yeah oh yeah Jim
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Garrison and here Garrison is this towering figure and they replace him with this little Kevin CER guy yeah he
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was a pipsqueak compared to Jim Garrison yeah 66 no doubt about it all right good
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old Lee all right railroad switch operator Lee bar was stationed in the tower told
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his friend Walter Rachel he witnessed two men pull up in a car by badge badg
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man's position get out of and both shoot at the president Bowers saw a flash
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smoked and said both men fired because of his assassination knowledge Lee
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Bowers was Teri terrorized for years he had a finger chopped off and was run off
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the road into a cement embankment and killed so there's not many pictures of
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him who wouldn't be from Mark Lane who wouldn't have anything yeah this is Lee Bowers yes how do you get a finger
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chopped off Gary man that's telling you better be keep quiet that's
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how and mean he also saw the No Rider right yeah right absolutely and that's
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that's the tower that he was hanging from I mean way up I mean what what better view from what happened behind
33:03
the fence than Lee BS he was just too close Lee was one of the most important
33:09
Witnesses that's why they took him out I mean he saw all kinds of going on behind that picket fence you know cars coming
33:16
and going and the muzzle flash and and that's
33:21
another great scene in the movie JFK where ker is reading his Bow's testimony to the Warren Commission he's laying
33:27
awake at night like two in the morning and uh Bowers is talking about all this
33:33
uh activity behind the picket fence and he says I'm unable to explain you know a
33:39
flash or or something going on that led me to believe there was some commotion
33:44
behind the pick commotion behind the fence there was something I can't really describe exactly yeah that's exactly the
33:52
way he describes it in his War commission testimony yeah that's kind of yeah and uh cner reads that and he's
34:00
like then he he turns around to [ __ ] [ __ ] and she's like what's the matter
34:06
and he's like God damn it Liz I've been sleeping for three years you
34:12
know yeah boy well I know Liz personally and she did suffer like that and she
34:18
wanted him to just um leave it alone for her marriage sake but um that was a
34:23
great line by [ __ ] [ __ ] you and your government that that Line's always stuck she didn't
34:29
even believe him she thought oh just Shaw is a homosexual you know it it was really
34:36
something all right so this is uh pretty much what Lee Bower saw from the tower
34:42
that day you can see the fence in the front it's not the best picture but um
34:48
pretty easy to see that he's had the vantage point for [Music]
34:54
sure yeah what Le he died in a what a one car crash out on a dirt road with a
34:59
weird expression on his face yeah that's something else all right here we go the stem freway sign
35:05
was removed because bullets that impacted the sign were in direct line of badge men and the president so there's a
35:13
stemons freeway sign but actually it's further down isn't it or is that the
35:20
one that's it okay and um look how far back the escort officers are they're not
35:27
doing any protection for the president legs crossed for the for the Queen Mary but not for
35:34
JFK yeah you know those Secret Service agents need protection yeah and know there's a lot
35:42
of stuff about to happen at this moment they're going to cut out of the film that's Willis number five by the
35:48
way so here's another sign it's
35:53
um it's it's a little further down so I don't know of any significance of
36:02
that so all right okay Point number
36:07
10 okay in 1977 the hsca concluded by acoustic evidence of a shooter in the
36:14
badge men location and yeah that was that was just another lone nut yeah that's right by
36:22
sure as coincidence taking the same time and place to shoot at the JFK totally
36:28
unated to anyone else in the plaza yeah two lone nuts I mean who have who' have th it you
36:34
know yeah guess uh guess I got the screenshot off the History Channel how about that so all right on to number 11
36:42
are Rosco white so I guess we said all we can say about him right in the last
36:49
Rosco was certainly a Rosco is certainly one of the most important people to look
36:54
at um in this whole m yeah there's no doubt about it probably one of the under
37:00
research guys in the whole thing well yeah as far as it the mechanic level um
37:06
Rosco white is definitely a guy to look at no question about all right
37:13
and all right so last Point James father is lying when stating that there was no
37:19
one else behind a picket fence so what do you'all think about James
37:24
files we I don't think we've ever discussed him very much well you as much as it pains me to say it I think Jim de
37:30
Eugenio gets that right I think he's right about James files that I don't think files had
37:37
anything to do with the assassination de Eugenio was talking I'm
37:43
I'm not even gonna waste my time talking about that guy you know confession when confessions of an
37:50
assassination first came out uh a uh TV station in in the wanted me to come and
37:57
comment about it and I watched the film twice and concluded that while he knew a great deal about the assassination I
38:04
gave him like an 80% truth frequency so about 80% of what he said about the
38:09
assassination was correct but that he was disqualified number one because he
38:16
didn't mention the limo stop which set up his shot no one who had actually
38:21
taken the shot could have not mentioned the limo stop number two that the idea
38:26
that chuncky nicoletti had invited him to be a participant in the assassination of the president of the United States the morning of the event that's that's
38:33
the point I was going to make completely absurd but the weapon he claimed to have used this Remington Fireball which is a
38:40
high velocity hand handgun with a a shoulder attachment it looked to me very
38:46
interesting as a weapon so I thought I thought the the the weapon he talked about was much more interesting than
38:52
files although there are those including our friend uh in Europe who has Gone
38:58
Bananas over files you know JFK murder assault whim
39:04
dankar that James files as a cats meow here and tells us everything we need to
39:09
know about the assassination that to me falls into the category of what's a technical term for it
39:16
[ __ ] yeah I think that's about it yeah come to find out we have a new
39:22
historical landmark it's called the Ruth pain household so we've got a little
39:27
five minute video and then we've got another one by George de deor shield and then we'll be out the first B loads of
39:35
visitors amazing are getting their look inside a small South Irving home that
39:40
earned a place in history it was certainly the world came to Door the
39:46
story is long but the simple version goes like this go back 50 years Ruth
39:52
Payne lived here and invited a friend to stay over that friend was married to Lee
39:58
Harvey Oswald Oswald was living here when according to investigators he
40:03
killed President John F Kennedy the story we're trying to tell here is how just a simple Suburban housewife through
40:10
some acts of Goodwill Suburban the national Spotlight
40:15
a simple Suburban housewife with ties to the CIA yeah her whole
40:22
family you go yeah Bo I mean you just got to look at this woman yeah walking through the
40:30
home evening reception immediately noticed the 1960s era Furnishings we
40:37
came from the same generation Charlene hutkins is struck by what she has seen it's kind of chilling
40:44
it's brings back a lot of memories of that era and I remember the day exactly
40:50
when it happened I thought it was amazing I was really surprised because as a kid I thought in it Patrice Foster
40:57
family was friends with the PE I played with the kids I even met Lee you met Lee
41:04
yes your impressions oh he she always just say stay away from Lee don't disturb him so
41:11
we just you know we were [Music]
41:17
kids to get the home back to the way it looked in 1963 city employees studied photos check
41:24
out the curtains in this pain family photo the city found the exact fabric to
41:29
remake them and this photo of the kitchen helped them duplicate many of the details in there and I said hey I
41:36
can make something look like that washing machine I tell you when I
41:43
saw probably asked Ruth P 10,000 questions about what color was the
41:50
carpet what color were the walls what did the sink look like I'm asking her these things 50 years later but she was
41:56
a good sport and had a good memory too they did an amazing job
42:04
on cou it all comes together to tell a
42:11
story of contracts a busy mother raising kids while suddenly finding herself in
42:18
one of the news events of the century assassination I think this house really
42:23
does tell a story and I you know was nervous about coming and well how will it be done but seems to be been done
42:30
very well the first stop for guest is actually here at the visitor center on
42:37
the third floor of the Central Library watch vintage news reports your
42:42
residents Recollections and more because the house is in a residential neighborhood we don't want people just
42:47
driving to the house so you'll come here to The Visitor Center get some background information and then you will
42:53
go downstairs get into a van and drive over to the house our shared life dishes and
43:01
diapers once at the house visitors can take in video Recreations in two rooms
43:07
and the garage for Oswald got the gun he used pleas try to question all people
43:13
working at the Texas School Book Depository that morning Le oswal was no longer present those are the real words
43:20
and the real stories of the real people I love the technology they're using with the glass and I love that I love the
43:27
stories that they're telling in each different room think they didn't want so this would be Ruth's room and where she
43:33
slept for group visits guides will also explain some of the details that might be missed on an initial walk through
43:40
this is the room that we Harvey Su in night before and a little cup on the
43:47
dresser supposedly where he left his wedding ring in there when you left the the organization preservation Dallas is
43:54
working to get this home on the national register of historic places we have every reason to believe it will go
44:00
through but we we don't have that officially yet I think we're going to see a lot of people come to Irving as
44:06
part of this and visit I can tell you that we've already been getting calls from all over the United States from the
44:11
complicated conspiracy theories to the tough tasks of motherhood this home tells the story of Ruth Payne's time in
44:19
Irving a story she is happy to share it was important for the country to have
44:25
whatever information I could to why um because I had seen Lee in an formal
44:31
setting for those two months just prior to the assassination and um you know I
44:39
wanted wanted people to know what [Music] happen there you just saw a nice little
44:47
video about a key player in the assassination of John F Kennedy who just happened to arrange for Lee Oswald to
44:53
obtain a position at the Texas school Book Depository about two weeks before the assassination would take place a
45:00
book written about her entitled Mrs Payne's garage I reviewed you can find the review on assassinations science.com
45:07
just scroll down the menu bar on the left yeah it's quit the coincidence that
45:14
uh lee happened to get a job there just in
45:19
time yeah boy this woman sold out big big big time with her and more like the
45:26
garage that they wanted to um give everyone the S up so I'm sure that this in the six floor disinformation Museum I
45:34
would say they're probably on the same we know anything about the guy who replaced Gary Mack by the way yeah
45:41
Stephen Fagan what's the story on him Larry he's uh you
45:47
know he's Gary Max's boy you know and then he's uh G to continue to propagate
45:53
the exact uh you know the exact View and and you
45:59
know it's business as usual let's just three shots from the sixth floor window the Assassins L open and shot case right
46:06
no they will continue they they will continue to not include murder and de Plaza in their uh bookstore
46:15
there Jim in case uh you wanted to know
46:20
yeah they told me my books didn't meet their standards right right I'm sure that's true because they were full of
46:26
Truth and evidence yeah they weren't lying to you there Jim it did not meet their standards don't forget we saw Fagan a
46:34
couple of weeks ago when he was interviewing uh uh the photographer Bob Jackson Remember and that was Fagan
46:41
right there uh doing the interviewing yeah where was that Larry was that in Dallas yeah that was a
46:48
couple of weeks ago when we uh we did the show on the mo Rider yeah yeah so
46:54
Larry what you're saying is basically the guy's a shill yeah he's going to continue to propagate the uh the position of the
47:02
third floor the six4 museum that job pays $200,000 a year you're going to
47:08
have to tow the line over there I bet you can get a half off ticket to the Ruth paint Museum too I'll get this
47:14
somebody I'm not going to mention his name I was speaking to the other day told me that uh groden had been offered
47:21
that job before Fagan paying too much
47:26
to be the custodian of the six FL Museum yeah the curator yeah the the curator the curator well yeah that's
47:34
that's that's great because I mean that that is at least showing his true colors
47:39
yeah groden apparently you know he goes on and on about this battle that he has with the six floor
47:45
Museum R he's making more money than Gary M he's working the outside that's
47:52
false flag if we ever seen that yeah tell us about George deor child who's
47:57
widely regarded as having been Lee Oswald's Handler all right yeah towards the end this one gets a little juicier so this
48:04
is uh seems to be demonizing um Lee a little bit so here we go we've got this last clip and we'll be
48:10
out we met osal uh uh about in in the summer of last
48:19
1962 when we heard that uh there was a young couple who arrived from Russia and
48:25
in very difficult Financial condition so a friend of mine and myself drove to Fort
48:31
wor and uh found this tenman house where he was living near Montgomery Lord and
48:40
was giving either crib or a play pan or clothes from Marina for instance people
48:45
were so wonderful that I believe she had clothes to 100 dress in her wardrobe and
48:51
they were nice things they weren't old worn out things but they were just nice I think that people had too many and
48:57
they shared in fact that was one of the biggest objections of Osa because it
49:04
made very difficult for him he could never provide Marina with 100 dresses
49:10
but it's rather difficult to discuss people's married life because what you
49:15
see outside is not always goes on when you don't see the people but from what we knew they
49:21
weren't very happy but for some particular reason they both didn't want to leave each
49:30
other we found out that beting Marina well Marina spoke to
49:38
me few times about their actual married life and she was in a way
49:47
complaining that he was was not aggressive enough and he was not interested enough in Sex and quite of
49:55
often she would prefer reading or prefer just to do more work and attend to it
50:02
and other hand with her it quite important and she was she definitely
50:09
felt lack of it that could be also one of the problems she te him about sex and
50:16
she te him about other little different things that's how he works if he doesn't
50:23
to this and he doesn't to that and uh all this things should never be done in
50:29
front of people it's the worst thing you can do to your husband to say something
50:35
publicly even with the friends or what people is supposed to know but especially sex I don't think
50:43
they should never be mentioned and that could be a very big point with
50:48
him he was he was humiliated my definitely I had the impression that he
50:54
was in love with Marina and uh that on his side there was no
51:02
unhappiness what's thing I remember now that he did not want Marina to learn
51:07
English maybe because he was in an intensely jealous person he did not want want Marina to communicate with other
51:15
people well one of the one of the things struck me quite
51:22
uh odd uh we were talking to him he was forbidding Marina to smoke I'll try I
51:30
was trying to explain to him this is modern time women do smoke providing the
51:35
smoke moderately there's no harm in it at all the worst thing he can do is forbid her smoking and I believe I
51:42
convinced him to permit Marina to smoke since she was very happy and she said once that yes she smokes and it's all
51:50
right then all of a sudden we jop by one evening to visit them and then she she went in the
51:55
kitchen and I she came back quite upset I said what happened said he just
52:02
took cigarette out of my mouth and put it out on my shoulder what happened actually you know that I was standing
52:07
there on the balcony and my wife and Marina were looking at the rifle which
52:13
was inside of the closet and Marina said to my wife look at the P he has a rifle here instead of
52:21
uh instead of buying food or Necessities for our home you know he bought the
52:26
rifle and uh that's what I just overheard I actually did not even look
52:31
in the closet and it seemed to me like such a ridiculous idea for osal to buy a rifle
52:38
when he needed money so desperately it's it's just it was just a
52:43
big joke you know so we all start laughing how crazy it is and then at a
52:48
clear sky has a peuli sense of humor sometime he said did you take B chance p
52:55
F A Walker and we all laughed at it like great big joke like nobody thought
53:01
anything of it at all because we never thought that anything like that could happen and later on from reading the
53:10
paper we heard it that's exactly what happened oh thank
53:18
God yeah that they I think they were rting out poor Le saying that uh they
53:23
saw a rifle in his in his closet and how dare him buy a rifle when he have money
53:28
to feed his family so well the first thing I want to say about this this uh
53:34
video is that this was very soon after the assassination they were obviously under duress if you look at the deor
53:42
shield in uh Shane Sullivan's uh oswal
53:48
documentary and he is completely 180 degrees you know he is denouncing the
53:54
entire thing he is making fun of the gullibility of the American public and believing that one lone nut does the
54:02
assassination and another lone nut comes and silences him you know it's all
54:07
coincidental and so so on and and so forth you know and and the last thing I wanted to say before we sign up uh that
54:14
woman that black woman that was saying that Lee she was told to stay away from
54:19
Lee that is such a Croc I've never seen anything so blatantly ridiculous
54:26
and and and it's totally propaganda Jim because even Wesley Frasier said that
54:31
Lee was very good with children and that he loved to play with children he was seen playing with his with his children
54:37
all the time you know and how can that woman how can they allow that woman to even blurt something out like that it's
54:45
ridiculous the disinformation campaign is never ending Larry exactly exactly
54:52
exactly sometimes it's insulting Beyond unbelief I mean Judy Baker you
54:58
know Wesley Frasier you
55:04
know why can't you get leas tax records to this day you know what's the they're
55:09
they're held up due to National Security yeah I know how is that possible unless the official account of
55:16
the assassination is completely wrong well yeah and my theory on that
55:22
has been um it's not United States national security that's in the balance it's Israel's National Security well
55:31
look Lyndon was a key player there were a lot of people Texas politicians Texas
55:36
local Dallas political leaders Dallas Police Dallas Sheriff's Department FBI people were involved in this thing
55:44
yeah Lyndon Lyndon was Jewish Lyndon was Jewish yeah that is an interesting
55:49
observation Don and of course gateon Fonzi is coming to interview George deor child who just happens to blow off his
55:55
head with a shotgun another coincidence yeah it was strange them
56:01
talking about Le sex life and how you on you know that came up quite a bit in all
56:07
of this now what precisely did they say they said that Lee wasn't interested in
56:13
sex with her he preferred to read and uh she would um put him down for it and
56:19
stuff like that well he didn't have a couple of kids you know he he had to have some interest in sex
56:26
yeah that always seemed to be one of the main things I was even in Oliver Stone's film about that and um they were really
56:34
demonizing Le especially that point towards the end about the rifle you know how crazy it is to have a rifle in your
56:40
closet and not have money for food that was a little strange yeah it's nonsense
56:46
it it just doesn't hang together at all and why would you take curtain rods to
56:52
work nobody sees you carry them in the whole story is so completely ridiculous
56:58
years later you just can't believe anyone ever believed it yeah his story is going to laugh you know in 40 50
57:05
years what the hell Gary take all right
57:11
Ruth Payne hope you're doing okay over there in California and all right fellas
57:16
we appreciate it this has been the JFK show number 138 and we'll have a new show for you next week and we'll see you
57:23
later all right