DiEugenio on the Files & Push for Transparency-Oswald File being tampered with-Parallel Event in Chi

K Hofeling timestamps adjusted forward after removing the first half of the interview.
00:00 During the interview, DiEugenio revealed how Oswald's CIA file was suspiciously mishandled - it bypassed normal protocols and went to the Office of Security instead of the SR division, and no "201 file" was opened on Oswald when he went to the Russian embassy, suggesting someone was deliberately altering Oswald's file.
08:44 DiEugenio described a previously thwarted assassination attempt against Kennedy in Chicago, involving a Cuban suspect named Thomas Arthur Vallee, where the building setup and motorcade route were remarkably similar to the Dallas scenario.
[discussed in more detail, with the otehr attempts, here:
https://rumble.com/v6q74ek-chicago-plot-to-kill-jfk-nov2-63-woswald-lookalike-thomas-arthur-valley-as-.html ]
13:31 He outlined an alleged conspiracy structure involving intelligence agencies and organized crime, claiming Jack Ruby was brought in by the CIA through mafia connections (specifically through Lewis McWillie) to eliminate Oswald before he could reveal sensitive information.
17:47 The assassination location in Dealey Plaza was described as a "perfect pinch point" for an ambush, with tall buildings, fences providing cover, a necessary slowing of the motorcade to 11-12 mph for the double turn, and easy escape routes through nearby parking lots.
21:08 DiEugenio connected Kennedy's assassination to his opposition to CIA-backed regime change operations in Iran (Mossadegh), Guatemala (Arbenz), Congo (against Lumumba), and Indonesia (against Sukarno), and particularly to Kennedy's firing of CIA Director Allen Dulles and other top officials after the Bay of Pigs disaster.
33:38 As key evidence, DiEugenio discussed Kennedy's missing brain and autopsy anomalies. The recorded brain weight (1500g) contradicted witness accounts of massive brain damage, and the brain was never properly dissected in slices as would be standard in homicide cases to determine bullet trajectory and number of projectiles.

Full Vid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mH_eqppyas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1RenxHNT_8

YT Full Show Transcript:
0:00
damn son where'd you find this buckle up buttercups it's time to get down to
0:05
business oh yeah it's the Totally Legitimate Business Podcast totally
0:12
legit all right welcome back folks it is the Totally Legitimate Business Podcast
0:19
we're back again and today we are joined by a titan in the field of research
0:24
about JFK and other political assassinations of the 60s he's the
0:29
founder of kennedesandking.com he's written or co-authored four books on the subject he
0:35
wrote the screenplay for Oliver Stone's JFK Revisited Through the Looking Glass and JFK Destiny Betrayed and his latest
0:43
book is chokeolds that inescapably prove
0:49
there was a conspiracy and it should serve as a great companion to the coming declassification of the remaining files
0:57
mr james Dugenio welcome to the show thank you
1:03
so I guess let's just jump right into it how excited were you when you saw that
1:10
executive order come through and there finally being like a real serious push to get this last bag out i was um I I
1:16
kind of predicted that Trump would almost have to do that um
1:22
because there had been a lot of pressure on him by people like Andrew
1:28
Npalitano and Joe Rogan and Robert Kennedy Jr all right
1:36
and he had promised to do this back in
1:41
2017 but he had backed out at the last moment in fact on the day he was supposed to do it he backed out of it
1:48
all right and Andrew Npalitano brought this up in a
1:54
conversation with Trump and he said words of the effect you know you you
1:59
broke your word to the American people and Trump said about what and he said you said that you were
2:08
going to declassify the last of the secret JFK documents but you
2:13
didn't and he said words of the effect "Andrew if they would have shown you
2:21
what they showed me you wouldn't have done it either." Right and Andrew says
2:27
"Who is they and what did they show you?" Okay and and he said and Trump
2:33
said "When there's not 15 people listening in on the conversation I'll tell you." All right so then he went on
2:40
Joe Rogan during the most recent presidential campaign right and Joe Rogan brought it up again and he said
2:47
more or less that he felt he had made a mistake the first time around which he
2:53
would counteract this time and then once he chose Robert Kennedy be part of his
2:59
uh cabinet Robert Kennedy Jr Okay because of course Robert Kennedy's
3:07
uncle and father were both assassinated in the 1960s within 5 years of each
3:14
other with some very serious questions about both those cases right all right
3:21
and Trump more or less had to do what he what he did now I give him a lot of credit for doing it but you know as they
3:28
say the devil is in the details and we'll see how this progresses there's
3:34
two or three congressmen who are very keen on this
3:40
one of them is named Bett one of them is named Cohen all right and I think they
3:46
should be brought into the process to make sure that it proceeds in both a
3:51
timely and an honest way you know there's about 36 or 3700
3:59
documents and that's just a number of documents there's many more pages than that okay uh and you know the question
4:08
of course is why is it 61 years later and we still
4:14
don't know what they're hiding yeah right finer finer details what are they
4:19
hiding and why you know and it's it's a you know and it strikes it's a bigger issue than just
4:26
the John Kennedy assassination you know it strikes at the very heart of who's running the
4:33
government you know um if we believe in a democracy then the public should know
4:41
all right the deepest darkest secrets about one of the ugliest days in contemporary history you know actually
4:48
three days if you pile in both the Martin Luther King case and the Robert
4:54
Kennedy Jr case excuse me the Robert Kennedy case all right so if people
5:01
don't know what really happened you know how can a democracy survive and there's
5:07
a lot of people including myself you know who believe that this
5:13
has this has been one of the most pernitious aspects of eroding people's
5:21
confidence in America all right and by the way it's
5:27
just not me that feels that way in Larry Sapato's book The Kennedy House Century he did
5:35
focus groups on this subject and they said that after Kennedy's
5:44
assassination a period of skepticism and depression came
5:50
in countervailing against the optimism you know and unity of the
5:56
post-war United States now do you know how many people said
6:01
that 91% of the people who were interviewed
6:07
said that that was the case jeez all right all right and it was it it was
6:12
very high among people who actually lived at the time all right uh which you
6:19
know I'm one of them all right and so that's sort of the way I feel also so
6:25
this is why I believe it's important you know to see those
6:30
documents declassified in Toto yeah I I completely agree with all that
6:35
i think it's of vital importance that we get some clarity there because that's
6:41
that's the thing that always like kind of blew my mind even as a kid my dad is
6:46
not a person who generally entertains conspiracy theories he's very straightlaced in that respect but he was
6:53
always open to the idea that there was some nonsense that occurred with JFK's death there was something else going on
6:59
there so as a kid I would I was familiar with the story and they would break it
7:05
down in a simple way that I could understand but one of the things I could never
7:11
really reconcile in my mind is how even though it was the hippie era things were
7:17
a little bit more progressive by and large America was still pretty straight laced Republican like the average
7:24
suitwearing individual to think that at that time even conservative folks were
7:30
like "There's something weird here." That to me is a huge indicator that they weren't it wasn't there wasn't a single
7:37
point where they were getting one over on anyone most people could clearly see that there was some nonsense going on
7:44
there greater greater coordination um and even with this this is just like a
7:50
funny aside but even the term conspiracy theory there's this whole conspiracy
7:55
that using the term as a in a derogative way as a conspiracy theorist that that
8:02
itself is a scop to quell people who were dissenting against the Warren
8:08
Commission that's true and um there's a writer of
8:13
who's passed on who proved this that the term conspiracy theory was not
8:22
really commonly used until 1967 when all this controversy about the
8:29
Kennedy assassination was hitting the fans okay it was very very seldom used prior to
8:37
that okay but after 1967 when the
8:44
CIA issued a report called countering the critics all right uh it was at that
8:52
time that the usage of that term literally zoomed up Yeah okay the charts
8:58
and became the common mantra to smear and discredit critics of the one report
9:07
yeah that's it's it's just wild even as a kid I was cognizant of the fact that
9:12
that nobody nobody was buying it then so it's not that hard to not buy it now i I
9:18
guess the other question with the declassification of the documents is like what do you hope like what to you
9:25
is something that would be like thank you this finally now we can end this at least this portion of the debate
9:34
some of the people I know who have been to the National
9:41
Archives say that a lot of these classified documents deal with Oswald in Mexico
9:50
City which is a very interesting to say the
9:55
least is a very interesting episode in Oswald's
10:00
life because there's a sizable amount of people who have read the literature on
10:09
this and they think that there's some serious doubts about Oswald being in Mexico City
10:18
at that time and there's things we already know that make this idea
10:25
problematic all right um now on the other hand I don't expect there to
10:32
be a what's called a smoking
10:37
gun he did it you know kind of document there because the CIA has had 61 years
10:47
you to uh to work on these things right okay and they're not stupid you know and
10:54
and uh they didn't want to be a part of this process from the beginning right all right neither did the FBI
11:02
well and there's a the FBI for example at the first at their first Well before
11:08
I tell this story I should preface it with this statement
11:17
the reason that we have this declassification question before us is
11:23
because in 1991 Oliver Stone released his film
11:30
JFK at the end of the movie in a crawler at the end of the
11:36
film he alerted the public to the fact that the files of the last
11:45
investigation the House Select Committee on Assassinations that
11:51
their documents literature reports etc have been stashed away to
11:59
2029 all right most people didn't know that and this created a firestorm in
12:07
Washington faxes telegrams letters phone calls
12:14
etc and so Congress was forced to create something called the Assassination
12:21
Records Review Board they were an operation from 94 to
12:28
98 and they declassified about 2 million pages
12:35
and unfortunately they couldn't finish the job due to time restrictions and
12:41
also money all right and so this is why we have this problem
12:49
that's left over in the final report of the review board they wrote that by
12:58
October of 2017 everything should be declassified
13:08
and that's when Trump said that he was going to do
13:13
this back then then Mike Pompeo came into his
13:20
office and read him the Riot Act okay
13:25
which this is a common thing that the CIA does you know they say
13:31
"Look if you declassify this you're going to expose this agent we have in
13:39
Northern Africa okay and even though he's 80 years old
13:45
all right his name's going to be on this document and if any harm comes to him
13:51
we're going to blame you." Okay and this is what they do all the time yeah they were doing it all
13:56
during 9/11 too okay so this is why Trump backed out all
14:02
right now he did release some documents
14:09
and but he put a sixmonth hold on it
14:14
then at the end of the 6 months he put a three-year hold on it and that went over
14:20
into the Biden administration right and as bad as Trump was on this Biden
14:27
was worse see the strength of the review board was
14:34
this they reverse the burden of proof in a regular Freedom of
14:40
Information Act hearing the plaintiff goes in let's say
14:45
it's me and I say "I want to see the rest of this document but I haven't been
14:51
able to look at it." All right and so the CIA or the FBI comes in and they say
14:58
what I just said you know this will be a danger to national security okay lives
15:04
will be in jeopardy etc and more often than not the plaintiff would lose all
15:09
right after spending a lot of money now what the review board did was
15:17
different they had the document in their hands they would put it on
15:23
screen they would call in the FBI and they would
15:31
say "What could you possibly object to in
15:37
1994 with declassifying this document all right and then I know this
15:44
for a fact is what happened the FBI guy had his lawyer next to him
15:51
and he says to the lawyer "Can they really do
15:58
that?" And and the lawyer says "Yes they can." See this was the the originality
16:04
and power of the review board because it reversed the burden of proof right you
16:10
had to prove why it should not be declassified right when in fact we're looking right at it all right and so
16:18
this is why in the matter of months the CIA and
16:23
the FBI kind of yielded okay cuz they saw the handwriting on the wall all
16:28
right and there would be literally bunches of declassifications you know like one
16:33
month there would be 30,000 and the next month there would be 40,000 etc all
16:39
right but there were still things that they considered off limits now let me
16:46
give your audience an education on just how bad
16:53
this is and it's pretty bad there's an attorney up in Canada named
17:01
Andrew Eer who was just at the National Archives a few months
17:08
ago in the memo the Justice Department sent to
17:13
Trump in October of 2017 it's called the Ganon
17:19
memo the lawyer said that there were no final
17:24
determinations made in the documents that are being withheld now what does
17:29
that mean a final determination means that the agency has said such and such a document
17:38
should be declassified by say 2006 or
17:44
2007 well guess what there were final determinations made and
17:51
Andrew discovered them down at the National Archives so in other words this guy
17:57
either didn't know what he was talking about or he was deceiving Trump
18:04
all right now what makes this all the worse and this gets pretty
18:09
bad in the JFK Record Collections Act it
18:16
said that there should be periodic reviews of the outstanding
18:23
documents to see if they're ready to declassify now you know how many
18:29
periodic reviews there were i'm going to guess not many
18:36
so in other words the National Archives completely failed you know in its
18:42
vigilance on the act the only thing that they did the only thing that they did is
18:49
in I believe it was July of
18:54
2017 since they knew October 2017 was the termination date they
19:01
announced that they were going to declassify the rest of this stuff and if
19:07
there were going to be any objections you better make it now so this is sort of like you know telegraphing a punch
19:14
okay hey I'm going to hit you right below the mouth with my right hand all right but this is what they did all
19:21
right and so this is why the FBI and the CIA went into the Oval Office and this
19:29
is why Trump buckled okay all right see this is how
19:34
bad this situation has become all right and this is why and this is why I think
19:43
it's justified that there's a lot of cynicism and there's a lot of
19:49
skepticism about you know the way the government functions sure why is this so
19:56
[Applause] secret after Kennedy was why
20:04
well I mean there are many thoughts on that i I I've I've also thought in the
20:10
you know utopian scenario we get everything we get some like true clarity as to what's going on there the
20:16
realization by most people that I mean even okay again why would he get
20:23
assassinated like the the practical person even asking themselves you know what why is there a conspiracy who would
20:29
want a Kennedy and when you really start zooming out there's plenty in America
20:34
alone but you start zooming out to the greater part of the world and major players are involved and and literally
20:41
people who are in charge of assassination operations all over the world do they have the means do they
20:47
have the ability of course they do and did he piss them off in some way or did they did they were they at each other's
20:55
throats for some reason yes they were uh but I I don't know like I really feel
21:02
people might be more receptive to it now than ever but I agree with you that this
21:07
distrust from this one event and then the subsequent assassinations of this era created a a a a new wave of
21:16
skepticism on behalf of the American public to the government a and is it getting better i don't know you know we
21:24
just had QAnon and any other type of of uh conspiracy that you see how people
21:31
react to it um Q on is a distraction well of course of course and and like
21:37
I'm absolutely 100% willing to accept that most of uh uh you know SCOP that's
21:45
a real thing that's a real military technique we've been we've been using that for a long time it predates America
21:50
but America has kind of refined it to this very special kind of thing and even
21:56
the idea of not trusting your government that's like that's specially baked into the American experience in a different
22:02
way than anywhere else in the world the story of how America becomes a country it's literally says in our founding
22:09
documents we have to protect against a tyrannical government um so I think it's like part of the
22:15
American experience to be a little bit skeptical of your government but this
22:21
event and then another 60 years of a lot of really shady business dealings uh
22:28
puts us in a in a very strange place i'm also suspect like yeah they might
22:34
declassify the documents but what are they going to redact like what are the See that's the
22:39
whole point of this there's supposed to be no redactions in these documents now
22:45
prior to October 2017 the redactions were copious you know there were there were
22:52
documents we were getting that were half blacked out all right you know and uh it's really
22:58
shocking to see that all right but now what Trump's order is going to say is
23:06
that everything should be out in the open all right okay there isn't any
23:12
reason in 2025 for there to be any redactions all
23:19
right and and that's a very important point and I believe that with Robert Kennedy Jr there all right
23:28
that this very likely will happen now Bobby Kennedy Jr
23:34
wanted his daughter-in-law to be installed as deputy director of the CIA
23:41
all right because he actually wanted her to run the
23:47
declassification process and I don't think that happened it would have been great if if he would have gotten that
23:53
yeah i can't but we'll see we'll see what happens like I said the proof will be in the pudding all right uh now let
24:01
me get to another point that's very
24:07
important because Trump was deceived by the Justice
24:13
Department about there being no final determinations this is why he had to
24:20
issue this order when in fact he didn't okay if the review board had
24:27
already set a final determination on the documents and from
24:32
what I can see and from what my friend the lawyer Andrew Eer up in Canada has
24:38
seen this is what they did and Andrew talked to a couple of members of the
24:45
review board the chairman John Tunheim and the chief counsel Jeremy Gun
24:52
and according to them they had placed final determinations on every document
24:58
all right that's what they said that's what they remembered so therefore Trump really never had to do this all he had
25:06
to do was order the immediate declassification and that would have
25:11
been it and we wouldn't have to wait this 15 days we wouldn't have to wait
25:17
for a plan from the attorney general right all right and the defense intelligent national estimates uh chief
25:25
etc we don't have to wait for any of that stuff we could just have these right now now let me add one last
25:31
point on this issue before we get to who might have Kennedy and why
25:39
um there's two or three congressmen one of them named Cohen and
25:45
one of them named Burchett who have actually been pretty good on this issue
25:51
and Oliver Stone mentioned them in his press release on this
25:57
topic their idea and I agree with it is that once these are all
26:05
declassified and if there's something new in the document that leads to another paper
26:12
trail then that trail should be followed and that document should be opened up
26:18
okay all right that's the really the only way to do this thing and so that's another
26:24
qualification I would put you know on this on this uh whole process now you
26:34
asked the question that almost everybody asks okay
26:41
um who Kennedy and why all right and that's a logical question as
26:48
to why these documents are being withheld all right
26:57
today one of the more predominant theories about Kennedy's
27:03
assassination and it's one that I subscribe
27:09
to is that this was a
27:14
triangular conspiracy a triangular plot with the
27:21
CIA the Cuban exiles and later they dragged in the mob in order to get rid of
27:29
Oswald all right now if you take a look at
27:36
Oswald it's pretty clear that from his days in the Civil Air
27:43
Patrol there was a lot of intelligence influence with him all right
27:50
and there was even CI interest in him before he defected to
27:56
Russia i don't know if you know that but one of the declassified documents that
28:02
came out was by a woman named Betsy
28:08
Wolf betsy Wolf's job at the House Select Committee on Assassinations was to analyze the Oswald
28:16
file all right i didn't see these documents until about
28:22
three years ago three or four years ago they should have been declassified
28:29
in 2006 she asked for every division
28:36
charter in the CIA i think there were nine of them once she got the charters she went
28:44
through them all and from that she put a chart on the
28:49
board this is what Oswald's file should have done then she asked for the
28:56
file and guess what it didn't do anything like
29:02
that it was supposed to go to something called the SR division didn't go
29:08
there it went to a place called Office of Security
29:15
now there also another point she observed there should have been what's
29:21
called a 2011 file opened on Oswalt the minute he tried to go to the Russian
29:27
embassy over there there should have been what's called a 2011 file opened up on him there
29:33
wasn't there was not a 2011 file opened up until 13 months
29:38
later these two aspects very puzzled her so she started interviewing
29:45
people right people retired from the CIA people in the
29:53
CIA and they all agreed with her they all agreed with her yeah there
29:58
should have been a 2011 file open yeah it should have gone to the SR division
30:05
so it's like uh uh the normal channels that would have how that would have filtered through the CIA instead they
30:12
were special handling someone here's going to Here's the punch line the last guy she
30:18
interviewed was a guy named Robert Gambino robert Gambino at that
30:24
time in 78 late 78 was the chief of the office of
30:30
security all right she explained the situation and he said
30:38
"Look it doesn't matter how the papers are
30:43
stamped it doesn't matter how many papers are coming in if the client has gone to the first
30:51
gate which is the office of mail logistics those papers will go to where
30:58
he requested." In other words somebody was rigging
31:04
Oswald's file as he went to the Soviet Union this is one of the most startling
31:10
things that came out of the ARB all right why would they do
31:17
something like that this is so fascinating so and by the way let me
31:22
tell you this here's the capper you would think that this is a very important discovery i mean I sure
31:29
would have it's not in the House Select Committee volumes can you believe this
31:35
it's not in the House Select Committee volumes so we had to wait for the review board to declassify these documents for
31:43
us to see what on earth the CIA was so interested in Oswald as he was going to
31:49
the Soviet Union you know even before he got there
31:54
so this is the kind of thing that makes this case so tanalyzing you know so baffling
32:03
you know we're and I I guarantee you we're never going to know the answer to that question oh almost certainly not i
32:10
mean one of the things you were talking about before as you were uh kind of just explaining the CIA's process for
32:16
declassifications there was it's still a standard practice to burn documents yes
32:22
like that's a thing that they do so there's some stuff that would have been so sensitive they would have
32:27
deliberately destroyed any record of it so we might get a a a document that
32:32
refers to that document or a document that mentions something else that occurred in something that was destroyed but that's absolutely and that was
32:40
absolutely standard practice back then yes I totally agree with that yeah I
32:46
I it's we we talked a bit about the idea that he may may have been in Mexico or
32:53
at least the lie that he was in Mexico the idea that maybe he has doubles like
33:00
actually solidifying the idea that he's not the person who the president he was the pathy and he was on behalf of the
33:08
government for at least some time doing legitimate stuff he was doing legitimate
33:14
counter intelligence operations um and I
33:19
I I what's the question I'm asking here
33:24
when do you do you think up until the moment that he's in that building or he
33:30
gets accused of that crime does he have any inkling this is going on is there
33:35
any proof that he was trying to sniff any of this out or this was all well
33:40
above his pay grade no I I I don't think Oswald had any information what was
33:46
going to happen that day all right i think he was just what he said he was
33:51
you know a pathy all right um in my opinion and I'm labeling this as
33:58
opinion the plot to Kennedy began to coalesce in the summer of
34:06
1963 all right and this was as a direct result of Kennedy's failure to invade
34:14
Cuba during the Cuban missile crisis when he had the perfect
34:20
pretext to invade the island all right except he didn't even want to bomb the
34:26
silos he didn't even bomb bomb the missile silos and this is what convinced
34:31
a lot of the people in the CIA and the
34:37
Pentagon that Kennedy was some kind of peace he was some kind of pink in some
34:44
way yeah all right uh now let me add this it's a good thing Kenny didn't
34:50
invade the island because what I don't think he knew was that the
34:56
Russians had given the Cubans short
35:02
range nuclear warheads okay that one set would go 30
35:10
miles and the other set would go 85 miles these were smaller atomic bombs
35:18
about the power of what they dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki but they would have destroyed
35:26
any kind of invasion flotillaa you know coming in and that of course would have
35:32
left Kennedy in a hopeless situation where he would
35:37
almost have to retaliate yeah now so it's a really good thing that this did not happen but that didn't make any
35:44
difference uh to these hawks in the CIA and the
35:50
Pentagon and I believe that in the summer of 63 they had begun to
35:59
theorize about a way to get rid of Kennedy now I don't know if you're aware of
36:08
this but before they even tried the Dallas plot they tried to kill Kennedy
36:14
in Chicago tampa in Chicago right so you are aware of this yeah no but go please go on this is again this is a plot to
36:21
Kennedy I believe November 2nd or 3rd in Chicago
36:28
and the pathy there was a guy named Arthur Valle who had a lot of things in
36:37
common and in fact it's almost uncanny you how many things he had in
36:43
common uh with Oswald all right he he was a trainer okay i think believe in
36:51
Long Island all right um he was at a
36:56
base that harbored the U2 flights although it wasn't at Sugi it was a
37:01
different base all right and he had some mental problems that his
37:10
sister talked about so this guy would have
37:15
been in some ways he would have been a better psy than Oswald all right all
37:20
right and this was thwarted when a maid in a hotel
37:27
room saw what looked like some Cuban guys with two rifles okay standing up
37:34
against the wall and this lead came in to the FBI and the FBI gave it to the Secret
37:42
Service and the plot was thwarted now let me also add this just like in
37:50
Dallas the building where Valle was working in was right off an
37:57
expressway and the motorcade would have ridden right in front of the place he
38:02
was working on which was the third floor interesting of this warehouse built now come on how can you get Yeah right
38:12
any more evidence that they that Kennedy was not getting out of 1963 alive yeah
38:19
one way or another they were going to get rid of him all right and if one failed the other one would not now
38:25
there's a there's a question about the Chicago plot you know was it really an
38:30
attempt to Kennedy or was it a dress rehearsal okay you know I don't know the answer to
38:37
that i I kind of think it really was an attempt to to Kennedy but the thing is
38:43
you won't read about it in the Warren Commission you won't read about it there it was a a first- rate journalist named
38:50
Edwin Black uh who has since gone on to make a big name for himself in
38:56
non-fiction literature who first wrote about it I believe in
39:01
1975 and it was in a alternative periodical called the Chicago
39:08
Independent which he and his wife ran all right and that's when this story
39:14
came out you know it had been submerged for 12 years i believe it's of the
39:20
utmost importance you know but this is how determined they were you know to get
39:27
rid of Kennedy if one did not succeed the other one the other one would all
39:33
right now if you take a look at what I believe to be the
39:43
structure I believe you have since Oswald was some kind of lower level
39:49
intelligence agent i don't think there's really any argument about that today all right that and I believe that when he
39:57
was in New Orleans in the summer of 63 he was part of the CIA and and the
40:05
FBI's attempt to discredit the Fair Play for Cuba committee that's what that's
40:10
the only thing that explains the very strange things that he did while he was
40:15
there all right um and then of course there's the
40:21
sightes of him inside of Guy Banister's office all right the the very right-wing
40:29
uh almost nutty uh former FBI agent okay
40:34
who was running what was supposed to be a private investigators and he was really part of both the Bay of Pigs and
40:42
Mongoose all right well what would a communist be doing there you know good
40:47
question you know and so if you believe as I do that Oswald was some kind of
40:54
intelligence agent and if you believe as I do that he
41:00
was intersecting with these Cuban exiles unbeknownst to him he was
41:06
actually being set up by them you know then that's the second part of the triangle then when Oswald survived I
41:15
believe that Oswald was supposed to have been at the Texas Theater but there were
41:20
too many people there there were like 24 people there and Oswald made too much of a
41:27
distraction and screaming "I'm not resisting arrest," etc and so they
41:33
couldn't do away with him there and so this is when Jack Ruby was dragged in
41:41
you know this CIA goes to their former partners the mafia you know and they say
41:47
"Do you have anybody who can get rid of this Oswald guy for us in Dallas?" All right and so somebody like Trafocante
41:53
says "Yeah Lewis McQuilly can do it for us." He was a very close friend of Ruby
42:01
and Ruby once said that he would do anything for Lewis McQuilly all right he
42:06
actually sent him guns when he was in Cuba okay and so I believe that you have this
42:14
three-sided triangle that cooperated in in in getting rid of Kennedy i don't see
42:20
how anybody can look at the Zapruder film and at that
42:27
layout in D Plaza have you ever been there i I was just going to tell you for
42:33
my bachelor party my best man and I went to Deal Plaza we flew to Dallas we
42:38
stayed there for a week and we spent a big Anybody who's been to that place you
42:44
know and you've examined it it's almost impossible to
42:49
believe that they approve that route okay because you really could not get a
42:57
more perfect setting for an ambush and contrary to what some people
43:03
say that was not the only way to get to the trademark the House Select
43:09
Committee just looked at the street maps from the time and said "No you could get
43:14
there on Industrial Boulevard you didn't have to take that route." All right so why did they take such a perfect ambush
43:23
site you know as the way to get to the trademark you know because you have look
43:29
in short order you have tall buildings behind
43:35
you in short order you have fences in front of you okay both on the left and
43:42
on the right since you have this double turn in the space of a
43:50
block you have to slow down the car to like 11 or 12 m an hour perfect pinch
43:57
point all right and so you also since you have a parking lot behind the grassy
44:02
null and you have a parking lot behind this gold book depository and you have a parking lot behind the south
44:09
null you have exits you know perfect exits you know so how any secret service
44:17
agent could approve that motorcade route i mean really these guys should have
44:24
been busted they really should have and on top of that I'm sure you know they're partying till 3:00 in the morning at
44:32
that after hours bar called The Cellar and they're drinking hard liquor wasn't George Carlin performing or something it
44:39
was like a famous I think there was a famous I think there was a famous comedian who was performing at America's
44:45
Untold Stories probably heard that um yeah that's and when they have a 7:00
44:50
call how can you get bombed and be okay in 4 hours and here's the capper to that
44:59
story they paid the fire department to guard Kennedy that night because they
45:05
knew they were going to be out late so what are we supposed to be there's like some guys with axes and that are
45:14
ready to hack anyone that gets close i mean really it's it's it's so bizarre i
45:19
mean you you you you would think this is science fiction but it's not everything I'm telling you is true well and it's
45:26
again like even day of when the the guards on the car get told to like stand
45:32
down there's there's so much That's right at Love Field yeah there's there's so much stuff that is occurring at a
45:40
level of organization and would have to come through like some kind of legitimate channel to tell like Oswald
45:48
has no say over the Secret Service you know like there was no scenario where he was telling those guys to not be on the
45:56
motorcade that had to come from somewhere higher and then you look at JFK's relationship or tense relationship
46:03
with Dulles and even LBJ there's just like a lot of people i think it's more
46:10
than tense with Dulles i mean sure i was I was being uh I was being uh gentle
46:16
with it yeah i mean and if you want to kind of go into that a little bit that that to me when had been the head of the
46:23
CIA for something like seven or eight years and it had been the job he had always angled for it was his dream
46:29
position to run the CIA so then he comes in as deputy director and then he
46:36
replaces Walter Bedell Smith as CIA director and Dulles
46:42
revolutionizes he revolutionizes the CIA he turns it from an intelligence
46:47
gathering operation into a covert action organization all right and this is when
46:54
the overthrows throughout the world begin okay and it's because Dulles had
47:02
been a part of this big legal company in New York called Sullivan and Cromwell who
47:09
had a lot of clients in the third world all right and these clients of course
47:16
would profit from the colonial situation or imperial situation in those places
47:24
all right and so in short order you have the overthrow of Mosed
47:30
you have the overthrow of Arbans then you have the attempted overthrow of
47:36
Sakarno all right and there were people inside the
47:43
government who objected to this all right there's a very famous report
47:49
called the Bruce Levit report okay by a guy named David Bruce
47:55
and Robert Lovevet and they objected to what Dulles
48:00
had done to the CIA but they could never get him removed because his brother was a secretary of
48:08
state and had an entryway into Eisenhower's office all right now when
48:15
Dulles blows the Bay of Pigs all right and Kennedy believes he
48:22
lied to him about the operation his brother is appointed to the review
48:30
board that was going to investigate the problems with the Bay of Pigs and Robert
48:35
Kennedy came to the conclusion that Dulles knew it was going to fail in
48:43
advance and his hope was that JFK would
48:49
send in the Marines and the Navy to bail out the failed operation which he didn't
48:55
do all right and so Bobby
49:01
Kennedy talked to his father about this all right and his father told him David
49:09
Bruce and Robert Love it wanted to get rid of Dulles a long time ago all right and they wrote up a report about it and
49:16
so Kennedy found the report bobby Kennedy found the report all right and
49:23
he gives it to his brother and Robert Kennedy brings in Robert
49:29
Levit into the Oval Office and he says "Yes we wanted to get rid of this guy we
49:36
thought that what he was doing was utterly wrong it was smearing the name of the United States in the third
49:42
world." Okay we couldn't get rid of him because of his brother all right his
49:48
brother was right there as Secretary of State that Eisenhower idolized but you
49:53
now have the opportunity to go ahead and dispense with him which is what we tried to do in
50:00
the 50s all right and so once he was met with that JFK decided to fire not just
50:07
Ellen Bellis but also the deputy director Charles Cabel and the director
50:13
of operations Dick Bissell because he figured those were the three guys most
50:18
responsible for this debacle okay and they had set him up with all this false
50:24
information all right that somehow there was going to be an uprising
50:29
in there was going to be an uprising in Cuba and they would never be able to get
50:35
their tanks and mortars to the front in time and all this other stuff you know
50:40
which all turned out to be utterly and completely wrong yeah you know all right and so
50:48
Kennedy the only time I've ever read that Kennedy went through a period of
50:54
depression was in the wake of the Bay of Pigs he that night he actually cried
50:59
into his wife's arms you know how could I have been so stupid as to let them go
51:06
you know and this is what motivated him to go out
51:11
and try and clean up the CIA all right and he actually said I'm sure you're
51:17
aware of this quote you know that he's going to crush his CIA into a thousand pieces
51:24
now so when you say that he had a kind of problematic relationship I think it's
51:29
actually worse than that well certainly and it's again it's one of those things
51:35
where like until I got older being aware of this my whole you know young adult
51:40
life and it wasn't until I got older and started reading into the history of that where the again the assassination starts
51:46
to make sense you've got the people who were in who were using the CIA to or
51:54
overthrow governments for their own personal private gain smearing the name
51:59
of the US they're organizing all these assassinations all over the world kennedy cuts them off and then Kennedy
52:06
gets assassinated right it's too much of a coincidence you know what I mean it's like you're telling me the the the new free agents
52:14
aren't still going to try and do their work out you know we forgot about Leumba
52:20
that Yeah leumba and Dag Hagers yeah for sure patrice Leumba was the elected
52:25
leader of Congo all right and and let me make two things clear he was a
52:32
democratically elected leader of a constitutional republic in Congo all
52:39
right it's not like he was some tinhorn dictator or anything okay he was elected by the people and they had a
52:45
constitutional government well Eisenhower didn't like this all
52:51
right and so he actually ordered Dulles
52:57
to get rid of Leumba all right and there was something like I don't have my material in front
53:04
of me but it's four or five different attempts to kill Lumumba you know in the
53:10
Congo this included
53:16
sending agents code named QJ Win and WI
53:22
Rogue uh to Leopoldville to assassinate Lumumba and then when that didn't
53:30
work they sent in the technical services division Sydney Gotautle to prepare
53:38
poisons to put in his toothpaste okay to get rid of him that way all right and
53:45
then finally the CIA decided you know this is getting too obvious all right let's just side with
53:53
Leumba's opposition and let's just ship him over
53:58
there okay so they captured him and then the CIA went ahead and made sure through
54:08
blocking certain streams and having tracking on Lumumba's escape that his
54:14
enemies in Katanga would be able to track him down
54:19
and then they did they shipped him to Katanga which was the rebel state that
54:26
Kennedy and Lumumba did not want to secede from Congo because it was so
54:31
rich and what they did to this guy is almost beyond
54:38
imagining they put him before a firing squad okay and they him
54:45
but when they found that certain people were trying to find out where his grave was
54:52
located they dug him up and they burned his body in sulfuric
54:59
acid and by the way they did that twice to make sure there would be no remnants
55:05
left of his body so he could not become a martyr which by the way is what happened anyway right you know he became
55:11
a martyr in Africa anyway and see when when you think about this
55:17
assassination you know what is so bad about this is
55:23
that and Jonathan Quintney wrote about this for about 50 pages in his book
55:28
Endless Enemies you know Leumba could have been an
55:35
example you know for subsaharan Africa of a democratic leader who was
55:42
really trying to help his people which is why Kennedy liked him yeah
55:48
and why he teamed with Dag Hammershold to try and keep him in control of Congo despite the European
55:57
imperialism there that led Kat Tangga the very rich mineral state that had
56:04
broken away which was a fake state it wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for the Dutch and the British right all right
56:10
and so they essentially did everything they could to keep Katanga a part of the
56:17
Congo but then not only was Leumba but then Dag Hammerskold was in
56:24
September of 1961 and when I say I mean that was no accident okay with with his
56:32
plane there's a lot of literature out there now if you haven't seen it okay
56:37
you can look it up susan Williams wrote a a book about this who Hammershold
56:42
which is an interesting look at this plot to to kill Dag Hammershold and I
56:48
believe and I guess we can close on this because it's it's pretty important
56:54
i believe that Kennedy knew Daghammer's gold was because his ambassador on the ground
57:00
Edmund Gullian telegrammed him and said whatever you think this was not an
57:07
accident all right and this is what inspired him to take
57:12
control of policy in Congo he went to the United Nations
57:19
twice to get them to stay there until his lumumba's followers sir Lodilla was
57:28
installed as a democratic leader who was trying to keep Congo together
57:35
now what happened well it's what
57:40
happened in Vietnam okay once Kennedy is that whole policy is
57:46
reversed okay and instead Johnson sends in and I wish I was making this up but
57:52
I'm not he sends in the Cuban exiles with planes to track down the
58:00
last of Leumba's followers and get rid of them because he believed they were
58:06
under the influence of the ch I'm again I'm not kidding about this of the Chinese Communists okay all right so
58:14
this is what happens in place after place after and this is what many people
58:20
believe is the biggest proof of a high level plot because all of these
58:27
changes in Indonesia in the Middle East Mhm in Congo in Cuba
58:34
in Vietnam can these all be just a coincidence right you know well
58:40
especially anyway so those are some of the reasons I believe that one can deduce about the Kennedy assassination
58:48
you know that the those this to me is like the portion of the story that makes
58:54
the assassination make total sense for people who are on the fence about could
58:59
this have been a conspiracy all you have to do is look to everything leading up to the event and then the event itself
59:06
and the aftermath of the event it becomes clear that there's something strange going on here um and you know
59:13
and they let's put it this way they knew who Johnson was okay and they knew what
59:19
Johnson would do after yep okay and so they were banking on him and he came through for them big big big money man
59:27
from Texas it's just just same same you know uh same class same school uh well I
59:33
I know we're going to wrap it up here i just want to thank you again for coming on the show i want you to maybe give a
59:39
shout out to the places you want people to check out your work i'm going to have all of your links yeah yeah you got it
59:45
the book is JFK assassination chokeolds and it goes into all the details of the
59:54
actual assassination that don't make sense the actual choke holds you get into the bullet you get into the brain
1:00:00
um there there's just so many get to talk about the brain is one of the most
1:00:05
incriminating things about this whole case in fact I believe it proves
1:00:11
conspiracy right on the surface so very quickly number one Kennedy's brain supposed to weigh
1:00:18
1500 g the average weight of a brain according to a Dutch study of 8,000 of
1:00:25
them was 1340 grams how can Kennedy's brain weigh more than the average when
1:00:32
in fact if you watch his appruder film it's all over the car his brain's blown out okay he then goes violently backward
1:00:40
his wife goes out the trunk of the car and they asked her "What were you doing out the trunk of the car?" She said "I
1:00:47
was trying to retrieve part of my husband's brain." Okay the cyclist on
1:00:53
the left side got hit so hard that he thought he'd been hit with a projectile
1:00:58
wow from like a piece of Once they got to the hospital his partner says "You
1:01:04
got this tissue in your teeth." Okay that's how hard he was hit with what was
1:01:09
left of Kennedy's brain you look in the backseat of the car there's all blood and tissue in the backs in the back you
1:01:16
look at Jackie Kennedy's suit okay and by the way she wiped off the
1:01:21
worst part which was on her face okay before the pictures began
1:01:26
so how could Kennedy's brain weigh more than the average when it's all
1:01:32
dissipated all over De Plaza all right
1:01:37
now one last point about this if somebody
1:01:43
is by the result of a gunshot wound to the
1:01:48
head he is supposed to be the brain is supposed to be dissected what does that mean that means
1:01:56
you put it in a solution you make it solidify and then you either cut it like
1:02:03
a bread loaf or the other way you do it is by a pie diagonal slicing now why do
1:02:11
you do that because you want to find the directionality and the number of
1:02:17
projectiles that hit the victim now again I'm not making this up when I say
1:02:22
this this was not done shockingly this was not done in the
1:02:28
Kennedy case and in fact nobody knows what happened to Kennedy's brain well yeah like doesn't it go missing
1:02:34
completely at some point in the 70s it goes where doesn't it go missing completely at some point in the 70s yeah
1:02:40
in fact what some people thought what the review board believed um was it was at a medical
1:02:50
center right outside of Washington they had a couple of leads that said that
1:02:56
they had seen something labeled John F kennedy's brain but they never followed
1:03:02
up on whether that was true or not so in other words it's never been found
1:03:07
all right okay now one last
1:03:12
point 14 witnesses at both Bethesda
1:03:18
and Dallas said that they saw a brain that a
1:03:24
significant portion missing from it okay a significant like onethird of the right
1:03:30
side okay a lot of the back was gone etc so in other words you have all this
1:03:37
evidence on every tier that shows that this cannot be Yeah
1:03:44
kennedy's brain nowhere close see this is in any normal homicide
1:03:52
case this would be thoroughly explored and you would use it to discredit the
1:03:57
prosecution yeah but see the Kennedy case exists in a kind of black hole or a
1:04:05
Bermuda triangle which norms of prosecution norms of legal proceeding
1:04:12
you know norms of the adversary system they don't exist right all right well
1:04:17
it's it's kind of like a fog of war that's that's how I've always seen the the the event happening and the things
1:04:24
that happen in the the 48 hours after the event it's just it's chocked up to the fog of war it was too crazy we
1:04:30
couldn't have kept track of it no one knew who was in charge it was chaos well there was there was a lot of war going on after Kennedy
1:04:37
was especially in Vietnam he was kind of standing in the way of that you know they they really they really opened the
1:04:43
gates after that they haven't really stopped well and you know that that's a a great way to tie it back to the beginning that's why this is important
1:04:50
that's why we we have been robbed of a potential utopia and it's basically
1:04:55
greed greed and power people want to maintain their greed and power and we have been robbed from a world where
1:05:01
maybe countries weren't completely adversarial toward each other at all times maybe there was some cooperation
1:05:08
uh that that's you know that was the promise of Camelot and what do we have
1:05:14
now i don't know but anyways uh Mr eugene Dugeno thank you for joining us
1:05:20
today on this uh conversation let me give a couple of shoutouts yeah no please my website is Kennedysandking
1:05:29
uh.com okay and there's a lot of research articles and book reviews that you can
1:05:35
find there it is yeah kenny's King.com all right and um there's a show
1:05:41
I appear on semi-regularly uh called Black Opra like every second
1:05:48
or third week okay and if you want to take a look at that film which you just
1:05:54
had up there there's Black Op Radio and beautiful if you want to take a look at that film that you just had up there uh
1:06:01
JFK Revisited that's being streamed till this
1:06:07
day on several platforms when it first came out there
1:06:12
it is when it first came out it was the number one bestseller on Amazon for
1:06:20
three weeks and it's been shown in 15 countries worldwide okay so those are my
1:06:26
those are my shout outs i love it thank you so much one last thing no no go ahead go ahead there's a book that goes
1:06:34
along with the movie uh it's called JFK
1:06:39
Revisited and it has the two screenplays for both the short version and the long
1:06:46
version plus it has interviews that did not get into the film brilliant okay and
1:06:54
that's there it is jfk revisited the book and that I believe that came out very well so I'm really proud of that i
1:07:02
will uh Thank you Mr oliva yeah of course i'll have all these links in the description uh be sure to check them out
1:07:08
if if this topic interests you uh thank you so much again this has been super fun okay my pleasure have a good day all
1:07:15
right everyone we'll catch you on the next one this has been the Totally Legitimate Business Podcast the end with
1:07:23
your host James Oliva who executive producers Clint G and James Oliva that's
1:07:30
obnoxious sound design mix and master by James Oliva literally no one cares for more
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Totally Legitimate Business subscribe to our YouTube channel at Totally Legitimate Business or add us on Tik Tok
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at TLB Pod when will this end thank you for listening now get back to work move
1:07:49
it along buddy