Wilkinson-Whitehead Interview on their Discovery the Zapruder Film Was Edited

It's all audio after the trailer.
One of the things here, if you watched the Groden/Groubert takedowns, if their characterization of Wilkinson and Whitehead's background is completely wrong. Maybe Whitehead specialized in CGI stuff at one point but he's produced a bunch of films, they run a studio, etc. They're wrong about Brugioni as well, and Horne, and in their characterization of Horne's interaction with Brugioni IMO, where they say Horne was leading him with the answers.
Stay tuned tomorrow, Groden's argument that the unslit film proves he has the original and Dino doesn't, has been debunked COMPLETELY. Kodak slit the film in Dallas, that's on the record and corroborated further by Zavada in ARRB docs, meaning it was 8MM BEFORE IT EVER LEFT DALLAS. Therefor, Grober has the INAUTHENTIC Hawkeye-Edited NPIC film, the unslit one Homer McMahon edited (NPIC Event 2) on the day after Brugioni (NPIC event/tape 1). He says that can't be done and you just have to trust him, no further explanation, "trust the expert." He's saying it's impossible to produce a new, unslit role of frames from developed frames, that sounds to me like nonsense. There's no way the CIA can't do that.
"Thom Whitehead and Sydney Wilkinson are post-production experts in the film industry who used their skills to closely examine a forensic copy of the most famous amateur movie in history - one that captures the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. What they found is shocking - clear evidence that the film had been tampered with before it was shown to the public. It begs the question: Who tampered with the film and why? Of the 50 Hollywood film experts who viewed the film and saw what Thom and Sidney saw, only two were willing to go on record.

Spotify Link:

https://open.spotify.com/episode/7FZP...
Transcript:
(add 54 secs to get the real times, since I added the trailer in front)
Transcript

0:05
people who witnessed the condition of the president immediately after he
0:11
entered into the hospital people who saw what happened to his head at the scene
0:17
and the doctors who worked on the president as they attempted to save his life and they all pointed to the right
0:24
rear portion of their head as to where they saw a massive wound
0:30
yet in the zuder film you clearly see the wound on the right front part
0:37
the forehead and that disconnect bothered the hell out of me how can all these
0:44
people who were there say it was one place and yet here we are looking at
0:52
this piece of film and it's in a completely different location welcome to Heroes behind
0:58
headlines I'm your host Ralph pulo today we have a very interesting
1:04
husband and wife team Tom Whitehead and Sydney Wilkinson as our guests to talk
1:10
about technical research and discoveries that they have made into the Abraham zuder film which has been called the
1:18
most important home movie of all time and the single most important piece of
1:23
evidence regarding the assassination of President John F Kennedy November 22nd was will Mark the
1:30
60th anniversary of that history changing event on November 22nd
1:37
1963 clothing manufacturer Abraham zuder took his top-of-the-line 8mm Bell and
1:44
Howell zumic director series model 414 PD camera to film the presidential
1:51
limousine and motorcade as it passed through daily Plaza in Downtown Dallas
1:57
he had no idea that he was about to record what is considered the most complete footage of President Kennedy's
2:04
assassination footage that has been viewed many times by millions probably
2:09
billions of people around the world and footage that post-production film experts Tom Whitehead and cydney
2:17
Wilkinson can prove has been tampered with cydney Wilkinson was an in-house
2:23
postproduction producer and sales executive at some of the Premier facilities in the post- production
2:30
business her clients were all the major Hollywood Studios TV production
2:35
companies and independent filmmakers Tom Whitehead is a post-
2:40
production editor with Decades of experience in feature films television
2:46
programs and Commercial finishing they're with us today to talk about their important Discovery what it means
2:54
and the resistance that they've encountered the Brave and Intrepid Tom Whitehead and Sydney Wilkinson are
3:01
today's Heroes behind the
3:08
[Music] headlines Heroes behind
3:16
headlines with Ralph [Music]
3:22
pulo could you please tell us a little bit about your background what you've
3:28
been doing for a living I spent a couple of decades working in post production
3:33
that's the primary issue here MH working for post- production facilities and
3:38
houses as sales and director of sales and bringing in the clients to work with
3:45
us on any kind of project mostly commercials television shows and then
3:51
restoration work for feature films which became my my forte so my clients would
3:56
be Studios um produc ERS from Studios Executives directors and then I met Tom
4:05
because he's an editor my name is Tom Whitehead I've been working in the post- production industry since
4:12
1975 it's been a a long career for me I started as
4:18
a very early video editing where the machines were huge and they were in
4:24
these giant rooms with computers and they cost hundreds of thousands of dollars for each video recorder and they
4:31
actually let me at age 23 uh pop on them and start pushing buttons around I
4:37
followed the entire transition from analog broadcast to what's now feature
4:43
film digital distribution and post- production so I've been able to work in the industry at any point that I want to
4:50
and started in uh very small local commercials and finally ended up my
4:56
career working in uh in feature film fantastic the official title I had and
5:02
what would be credited in a TV show or a feature film was initially called online
5:10
editing and it's like I say to people that uh ask me what I do in the business
5:16
I always say well you know when you go to see a movie and movie's over and you
5:21
find your car in the parking lot that's when my name appears on screen that's the kind of behind the
5:30
scenes lowlevel what they call below the line mhm in the feature film world I was
5:37
paid on a daily basis I never got residuals I never got a credit at the beginning of a show but um the rest of
5:44
what I did in in post- production was uh extremely varied and it changed from when I started to uh where we are today
5:54
I mean when I first started I was working a lot with film animation people
6:00
who would bring work into me and I would at the time integrate their film
6:05
material into a video commercial this is back in the early 80s I was working in
6:12
video but film was still the primary method of doing any kind of special work
6:18
in Hollywood at the time and that's changed over the years of course as
6:24
digital came in and the large workstations became small workstations and now they're
6:30
you can have a little computer on your desk that is 10 times more powerful than the $1 million computer that I was
6:36
running in 1995 yeah so you've spent a lot of your
6:42
career looking at film and video analyzing the quality being able to
6:49
clean it up and so on and so forth absolutely that was a very important part of of what I did was supervising
6:57
the final technical requirements for the final product quite often I would be the
7:03
last person to touch the picture portion mhm be before it went out into into
7:10
distribution okay now Sydney can you tell me how you became interested in the
7:16
Kennedy assassination and the zuder film in particular
7:23
absolutely well just very very beginning for just briefly was uh I was a
7:30
an intern in Washington DC in college in 1978 when the house assassination
7:36
committee was underway and I did my uh major paper on the committee and what
7:42
was going on and I was hooked after that and I realized wow this is something
7:47
special and the Zaba film always struck me as something that should be looked at
7:54
more carefully because it showed so many things that the government was saying were different mhm and so I did my paper
8:02
and then fast forward a decade or so because life happens and things happen
8:08
and uh I'm in working in post production where I met Tom and dealing mostly with
8:15
uh film restoration people the studios production companies uh artists film
8:22
artists all sorts of people like that and as we Tom and I were working together at the time in uh
8:30
2008 I I was doing a lot more research I was getting a lot more interested again
8:36
and I realized after the research I was doing that the zuda film has never been
8:41
studied forensically and it's just been taken for granted and I first thing I
8:46
thought of was here we are with all this wonderful equipment and all these people in Hollywood that are the topnotch State
8:53
ofthe art technical people which I'm not I just yeah I deal with them I thought
8:58
well why can't we just get the best possible element we can from the National Archives which is where it was
9:05
housed the original One MH so talked to Tom about it and we decided to do that
9:11
so I contacted the National Archives and uh asked them what what do I need to do
9:19
to get the best possible forensic copy of the uh film and that started our
9:26
whole journey and uh our plan was to go ahead and see if we could
9:34
solicit our friends our colleagues at that point we were dealing with Deluxe
9:39
film Deluxe laboratory sorry and they were behind it they thought it was a
9:45
great idea for us to try to do a real forensic study of it with people who know what they're doing and Deluxe Labs
9:52
is one of the top I don't know if it still is but was one of the top film processing labs in the country is that
9:59
correct exactly it's one of the huge Hollywood color by Deluxe mhm kind of a
10:06
Cornerstone of the film industry especially when the film industry was strictly filmed and the uh the physical
10:14
chemical process that uh film processing and printing and distribution was at the
10:21
time Deluxe is now morph along like everyone had to from actual film to
10:28
digital production hsca stands for the United States House
10:34
of Representatives select committee on assassinations it was established in
10:40
1976 to investigate the assassinations of John F Kennedy and Martin Luther King
10:47
after interviewing eyewitnesses and doing acoustic and Ballistic analysis
10:52
the committee concluded that at least four shots were fired at the president while the Waring commission had
10:58
contended that there were only three most importantly They concluded that
11:03
President Kennedy was probably assassinated as the result of a conspiracy not at the hands of a lone
11:11
killer Delux still is one of the major players in the distribution and
11:17
production of feature films okay so when you started to look into this they were a supporter they were encouraging you
11:25
absolutely absolutely right in fact one of uh one of our key contacts at Deluxe
11:32
had offered to us to offer to the National Archives the chance for deluxe
11:38
to take the original Zer film and repair and restore and
11:45
preserve which has always been one of the important things about that film
11:51
when the government bought it from the zuder family for $18 million
11:58
MH they have done nothing with it other than put it into a freezer where it's
12:04
just sitting and aging yeah element we got from the National
12:11
Archive shows a lot of damage Decay and
12:16
wear that should be protected from happening sure so important historically
12:23
important yeah it is and it's the I I'll say this it's the most viewed piece of
12:28
film in human history mhm copies of it have been spread around and mostly because of
12:35
the internet but it back in the old days people would send 8 mm copies of the
12:40
film bootleg copies that they could find sending them all over for people to look
12:46
at and to do investigation with and here we were in the situation where we're working for one of the largest film
12:53
companies on the planet with all the capability of film postproduction at our fingertips
13:00
and people are still evaluating the film looking at a a cruddy little QuickTime
13:06
movie yeah so we decided to get the best quality element we could get and it was
13:12
a third generation duplicate negative 35 mimer blowup of the zuder film and
13:18
Sydney you got this from the the National Archives what what was the process what is that like oh boy that
13:25
that well again this was in 2008 yeah um I don't know what the process is today
13:30
but it was quite lengthy um I just out of the blue contacted them they were very nice and said the first thing I
13:36
needed to do was purchase a 500 page report by uh a gentleman named Rolland
13:43
Zada who was uh a former Kodak um expert in film analysis and such and he had
13:50
just finished a report for the assassination records Review Board in
13:57
1998 uh supposed Ed L giving authenticity to the zuder film they
14:03
first said you you need to buy this report you need to read it and then if you still have questions or you still
14:09
want an element get back to us so I didn't know any better so I did and of
14:14
course I couldn't understand half of it because it was so technical but I did the best I could and realized all right
14:20
I've done this and so I contacted them again a month or two later and they said now you need to get permission from the
14:27
sixth floor Museum in Dallas who owns the copyright owned then and still does own the copyright to the
14:33
zuder film huh so the government didn't own the copyright of the film The Museum
14:40
did correct that's bizarre right there correct that is a whole another there's so many twists and turns obviously to
14:47
the story yeah but um you're absolutely right in um 2000 or 1999 2000 the zuda
14:56
family gave a deed of gift to the m Museum just donated the whole thing to
15:01
them and the copyright as well so the the government has no control over it so
15:07
anything that you want to do with the zuder film you must get permission from the six floor Museum in Dallas and are
15:14
they a private Museum or what is their Authority good
15:20
question sorry no they are they are a private Museum yes that we know right
15:25
Tom yeah and they um they are in de Plaza in Dallas so you know they they're
15:31
housed in the six floor Museum where yeah Lee Harvey Oswald supposedly um
15:38
shot JFK and they've been there for years and years and they're um they now
15:45
control an awful lot of most of the film elements I think most of the copyrights to them and photographs and they're sort
15:52
of the Premier museum is for the assassination in deal
16:00
Plaza the sixth floor museum at Daily Plaza is located on the sixth floor of
16:06
the Dallas County Administration Building formerly the Texas School Book
16:11
Depository which overlooks daily Plaza in downtown Dallas
16:17
Texas according to their website the museum Chronicles the assassination and
16:22
Legacy of President John F Kennedy and the life of Lee Harvey oswal in December 1999 the Sauder family
16:32
donated the copyright to the Sauder film to the six floor Museum along with one
16:38
of the first generation copies made on November 22nd 1963 and other copies of the film The
16:46
Sauer family no longer retains any copyrights to the film which are now
16:52
controlled entirely by the museum however the original camera negative remains in possession of the
16:59
National Archive and Records Administration which is headquartered in Washington
17:06
DC sadly they over the years have become very um very uh supportive of The Lone Gunman
17:16
Theory and very unsupportive of other F most facts and things like that so
17:22
they're control a whole lot of whatever anybody wants to do at least with a Zer film and that's been since the year 2000
17:31
one other thing about the to expound upon what Sydney just said a lot of The
17:38
Narrative of the Kennedy assassination has always been based upon the idea that you had one dissatisfied lone nut yeah
17:47
sitting at six stories up in a building shooting down on the motorcade that the
17:52
president was riding in yeah and that was the government's official story at the Warren Commission which was the
17:59
first investigatory body that was uh that was sanctioned to investigate how
18:06
President Kennedy was killed MH and since then of course there have been
18:12
numerous other theories about what could have happened yeah but the six Flor Museum
18:19
steadfastly sits by and protects that idea that it was one person with a
18:26
crappy rifle they won't consider or anything else no no and if you go there
18:31
I mean there have been hundreds of books with oh yeah with compelling evidence
18:37
yeah that it couldn't have been a single person with that crappy rifle yeah and
18:42
yet none of those books are on display or for sale it's only books that support
18:48
the lone nut Theory yeah of the assassination that are that are for sale at the at the six4 Museum wow that's
18:56
interesting so Sydney you asked for permission you had to you had to approach them and yes what was the
19:03
process there well it it again it took quite a few weeks I had to get written permission from um the archist there and
19:11
the assistant archist which I did and again this was in 2008 yeah and uh I got
19:18
the permission had to uh pay some money it wasn't that bad mm then I went back
19:24
to the took the permission back to the National Archives and they gave me a list of four or five
19:32
different facilities around the country that still did film to film transfers MH
19:38
to the Quality we needed that were approved by the government obviously and that cost you know $800 something like
19:46
that what have you so we got our 35 mm duplicate negative in the FedEx one
19:53
night and uh yeah we're like okay what do we do now yeah and Tom do you want to
19:58
say what happened really briefly yeah sort of a Funny Story opener yeah when
20:03
we got the film in um because of our connections in the film industry we had it uh scanned from film to digital file
20:11
and the file size is huge yeah I can imagine yeah most people know what HD is
20:17
and most people know what uh 4K is now well we did this at 6K which at the time
20:24
was the highest image resolution that you could get film to data so we got a
20:31
copy of that and brought it home I had it transferred to a QuickTime movie and I'm watching it on my workstation which
20:37
I have at home MH and it's about 2:00 or 3: in the morning and I'm just looking at it and all along through my
20:46
investigation the the thing that made me really want to look at this ruer film was a book by Robert
20:53
groden that uh who's a very prolific author based in Dallas and he had put
21:00
out probably one of the best visual narratives with uh image support and
21:06
there was a number there were a number of shots of people who witnessed the
21:13
condition of the president immediately after he entered into the hospital people who saw what happened to his head
21:20
at the scene yeah and the doctors who worked on the president as they attempted to save his life and they all
21:27
pointed to the right rear portion of their head as to where they saw a massive wound yeah yet in the zuder film
21:36
you clearly see the wound on the right front part
21:41
the forehead yeah and that disconnect bothered the hell out of me MH how can
21:48
all these people who were there yeah say it was one place and yet here we are
21:55
looking at this piece of film and it's in a completely different yeah and the back wound was an exit
22:01
wound correct we can't say for certain what wound went where and and and our
22:07
our our investigation is into the images that were created primarily in D Plaza
22:15
later on in the autopsy yeah and to evaluate the veracity of those images as
22:22
being an accurate representation of what actually was the state of the president's head after the wound yeah to
22:30
to answer your question also about about um the exit wound it there absolutely was at least
22:38
one exit wound through the back of the head but the official story has stayed
22:43
that it was a small Bullet Hole ex uh entrance wound from from the six story
22:49
through his back of his head and out the front which is still the same official
22:55
story which pretty much anybody who looked at uh the Zu Zer film or any
23:02
other kind of evidence is is pretty um has been discredited but officially that
23:07
is still the same story H interesting so we're watching it late at night and
23:13
actually she was still asleep I have insomnia like uh like many people do and
23:18
I was up at 2:00 or 3: in the morning watching this go by and I took a
23:25
control of the black level which is the uh the the darker portions of an image
23:33
MH where you can brighten it up you can electronically enhance it and I pulled
23:38
that up and I looked just after the president his head explodes and I see a
23:47
clear area of black in the back right of
23:52
his head which is exactly where the people at Parkland Hospital had reported
23:58
it being that people at the scene had reported so now I go that's not normal
24:04
yeah this was not just a dark area in the shadow this was a black patch it had
24:13
the same texture unlike hawood it had the same value of black across the whole
24:21
image and it was covering a large area in the film on the president's head it was probably about 5 or six Ines across
24:28
cross about 4 in wide mhm so it was a large area and it's just a flat black
24:37
patch yeah and so I'm like what the hell is this and I go over and I wake sit up
24:45
I wish I thought of saying something appropriate like that's one small step or something that would have been
24:51
something that would have been was more like holy F yeah yeah of course yeah
24:56
yeah oh my God I it the other thing that that I just wanted to interject too is because we were we
25:04
were at that point I don't know if it's still the the case but at that point in
25:09
2008 we were told by the National Archives that we were the only people who'd ever asked for a forensic version
25:17
a film copy as well film copy and film copy because most people were for documentaries or or whatever what have
25:23
you they wanted the cleaned up version and and the archives did offer either
25:29
either one you could have the cleaned up version or a forensic one and I do remember they were quite surprised when
25:34
I asked for yeah we just want the braw stuff yeah um because Tom and I knew we were going to have experts evaluate it
25:42
what exactly is a forensit copy they did a process with the film when they made
25:50
uh copies for duplication on 35 mimer and one of them was an optical process
25:56
that they did to remove scratches to eliminate some of the dirt but it was
26:03
artificial it wasn't what they wanted to see it was in other words was cleaned up
26:10
artificially okay and we didn't want that of course we wanted to see what was there yeah we wanted to see every
26:17
scratch every piece of dirt every which is what happened right so when we saw
26:24
the element that we got and Tom woke me up that night um we went frame by frame which was just
26:32
blew our minds so you saw the same thing Tom did no question everybody we've
26:38
shown it to it's so obvious it re for for a number of frames through the head
26:44
shot it is so clear and so egregious that it looks like a black Magic Marker
26:51
a little tiny one had been drawn over the back of the head where the exit wound pretty much everybody believed
26:58
leaves that yeah is or was and so it was not a fuzzy shadow in the back of his
27:05
head it was just somebody had drawn this weird shape just to cover like a patch
27:10
like you would see and Tom you think that's that's what it looked like to you like somebody had actually drawn on the
27:17
film yes primarily because of the way that the element the way that the black
27:23
patch was it was in the shape of the state of Ohio my home date it is it is
27:31
just black ink black yeah it has no texture it doesn't react to lighting
27:37
changes it just runs along being black the whole time we see the back of his
27:42
head for another 120 or so frames right before the president slid out of sight
27:48
yeah and then it's back to being a a fuzzy Shadow yeah it's just during the
27:53
time frame of where you can see that part of the back of his head exactly before the head before the head explodes
28:02
at frame 313 it's just a normal back of his head you can see you can see hair
28:08
texture in it yeah yeah you you can see that it was the original photography and
28:14
then it changes and then it changes after the head shot yeah oh wow so this must have been a a memorable night or
28:21
morning for the two of you we didn't go back to sleep I'll tell you that much it's like what the hell is this well
28:28
little more than that more like holy F running around the house what the f so
28:33
when when uh business opened the following morning I started making phone calls to uh colleagues of ours in the
28:41
industry yeah who are experts who would come and take would you come and take a look at what we have at that time we
28:48
were at Deluxe and Tom had a really nice um setup how big was your screen uh 20
28:56
foot screen in my room so we're able to we're able to project it optically onto
29:02
onto a big screen we're not looking on a little tiny computer monitor right right
29:07
and there in started our process of of soliciting anybody and everybody we knew
29:14
who were colleagues and friends who would experts who would come and take a
29:19
look and what do you see are we dreaming are we making it up what do you guys see yeah and um every single one of them
29:27
every single one of them said oh my gosh that is not normal that is they the
29:33
patch name came from a few experts I without naming names these are like the
29:39
preeminent film editors and and post- production people in the film industry
29:46
absolutely that's what I'd like to think also because uh the head of restoration and and preservation at Warner Brothers
29:54
and the same uh the same title at Paramount at at the time mhm they didn't
30:00
want their names used because they were still employed by the studios and at
30:07
that that started a whole process also that we had a difficult time do you want
30:12
to jump in Tom with with getting people to go on the record who were experts so
30:18
approximately how many experts would you say saw this Tom probably close to 50
30:26
okay I would say um okay they all saw what you saw nearly all of
30:32
them yeah nearly all of them I'll I'll say there were there were two there's one person there who who said I know
30:38
what I see and I'm not going to say what I see oh right because I forgot I love
30:45
that cuz he was employed yeah I know what I see but I'm not going to tell you what I see I'm not going to tell you
30:50
what I see because because I can't right yeah there's still the stigma of this
30:55
and this is something that that that hopefully is going to be changing soon because there there's this stigma about
31:01
anybody that speaks against the government's position yeah on anything
31:06
to do with the Kennedy assassination yeah and it it's the same way it used to
31:12
be with people who did uh Research into UFOs the tin the tinfoil hat folks right
31:19
right they were all whack jobs they were all well the government's now come out and said here are these things they're on our radar they're on our image we see
31:27
them in the sky we don't know what they are right that's changed everything all of a sudden now these aren't wack jobs
31:34
that are talking about this so you're you were surprised this this was just sort of like self-censorship by oh
31:40
absolutely like they were willing to tell you that they saw what you saw but they're not willing to go on the record
31:46
in any way precisely correct yeah precisely and it was it was you know in the case of the film industry you know
31:53
you you play along to get along right and they were just concerned that that would be uh impact their career somehow
32:00
if somebody came out and said that that's weird I mean it seem that somebody you know on the outside it just
32:07
seems weird like what would the film industry have to do with the Kennedy assassination well exactly that anybody
32:14
explain anything to you or you know what their fears were based on just that they were working for a studio and they might
32:21
not like that I said this yes that was a lot of it and and and as more recent we
32:27
did more research through the years it turns out that some of the studios had
32:33
done some some secret work for the government on the film um there were a
32:38
couple of uh experts who were not working at Studios but other smaller companies who said yeah I I actually
32:46
worked on a copy of it back in the 70s for the house assassination committee
32:51
but I can't I can't tell you anything about it so go away you know things like that which just stunned me but finding
32:58
out that that the government had sent at various times either a copy or what have
33:04
you of the film to Hollywood for experts to look at or do whatever to who
33:11
knows so while around 50 prominent film editors and post- production experts in
33:17
Hollywood had viewed Tom and Sydney's cleaned up digitized highresolution
33:23
version of the zuder film and agreed that they saw that a flat black patch
33:29
had been placed at the back of President Kennedy's head after frame 313 to cover
33:35
something up none of them wanted to go on record why Tom and Sydney surmised
33:42
that they were afraid of the negative feedback they would get from their Employers in the film industry but the
33:49
truth that Tom and Sydney's work has revealed can't be
33:55
denied in 2008 and9 they're and 10 and 11 and 12 they still didn't want to go
34:01
on the record for their own their own careers for some unknown crazy reason
34:07
yeah okay so Tom what did your Discovery tell you about the The Lone Gunman
34:16
Theory and the fact that it was one guy shooting the president from the back and
34:22
hitting him in the back of the head well there had always been the question uh that came up and and and beautifully
34:29
restated in Oliver Stone's JFK MH back and to the left yeah our Mind's Eye
34:37
tells us that when you hit something with force it goes in a in the same
34:44
direction as the force meaning that going back and to the left would mean that chances are that bullet came from
34:50
the front mhm the government worked very hard to rework that into a different
34:57
narrative with alternative science yeah that would say no he was shot from
35:03
behind and here's the physical reason why yeah and we're supposed to believe
35:09
that yeah well here we are with this thing that's showing up in the area
35:14
where people saw the wound before the president went into the ground yeah and
35:22
I'm I'm shocked that this hadn't been really pulled out there were some
35:28
researchers before us I should say I should say David lyton was a uh a great
35:34
researcher who worked on this and he got an early copy back in the early 60 late
35:40
60s I mean for the um just he got a copy of it and he noticed it even at that
35:46
time there was this dark area yeah behind the Pres and this was looking at a film copy of a film copy of a film
35:52
copy on 8 mimer and he could see it back then mhm there are a lot of researchers
35:58
um Through The Years who have done some really really good work on by no means
36:04
are we saying that we're the only ones and right we just know that we have the
36:09
highest resolution element in the world yeah at least as of 2008 that we know of
36:15
and it behooves the government or the six floor Museum and others to explain
36:22
what this patch is right and what it's covering up who put it there that's a
36:27
very interesting story and uh my partner here was very involved
36:34
in going to look at uh
36:39
the MPI there were transparencies prepared for a film that the Zer family
36:47
put together back in the days before while they still owned the copyright and
36:53
the physical film they went and produced a videotape called images of an assassination and they put it out on of
37:00
all things VHS and at the time that brand new technology
37:06
DVD and researchers all over the world would have access to this information
37:11
would be able to see the they'd slow it down they'd go frame by frame they'd number the frames and they did this very
37:17
involved production and it was done by a production company called MPI out of Chicago and so they're called the MPI
37:24
transparencies they got to go to the National Archives and put the uh Zer
37:29
film under a light box and shoot 4x5 transparencies which is a large film
37:35
yeah element this is in the very late 1990s yeahh and so they optically shot
37:40
every single frame of the zuder film and it's blown up now to a 4 in by 5 in
37:46
format after the film was uh bought back by the
37:52
government then all those ancillary elements went to the six floor Museum to be held for research purposes mhm now
38:01
after we found our our our information about this um a fine researcher who has
38:08
actually was working on the um AARP name is Douglas horn he found out
38:16
about the work that we had done and what we had found and contacted us and uh
38:22
included us in a book that he one of his five volumes that is uh fantastic oh
38:29
it's amazing his it's called the inside the assassination records review board
38:35
and uh he he's he's um unbelievable expert on the autopsy and on on the zuda
38:43
film and he was also their military consultant too during the years of the
38:48
of of the uh review board I contacted Doug by then it was early 2009 and i'
38:55
been doing all the research after seeing what we saw and thinking okay who who is
39:01
a researcher online who seems to be up and expert at this and Doug's name kept
39:06
popping up so I followed I found him followed him and and he was almost done
39:11
with his five volume book and I said can you can we just send you what we have to
39:16
see what you think and blah blah blah blah he agreed and he said oh my goodness and so he at the last minute
39:23
just before publishing his book on the chapter for theab r film he went ahead
39:28
and added our our I don't even know what he called it our valuation our valuation
39:35
and said that this is something that needs to be looked at further what have you so that's how Doug came involved
39:40
became involved and he was he was unbelievable and along with him uh Dr
39:47
David Mantic who was an expert on the autopsy issue of the assassination he
39:53
and Doug horn are very good friends and Doug had introduced me to Dr Mantic and
40:01
it so happened that in 2009 when Doug's book had just been published a month
40:07
later was the annual convention in Dallas for the
40:14
assassination in January of this year Dr David Mantic published the JFK
40:20
assassination decoded criminal forgery in the autopsy photographs and x-rays a
40:26
500 100 page magnum opus complete with color illustrations compiling his
40:33
decades long investigation into the JFK assassination which is considered the
40:38
definitive analysis of the head shot that killed the president in nine
40:43
separate trips to the National Archives over multiple years armed with the latest scientific apparatus Mantic has
40:51
spent a record amount of time examining the original JFK Autopsy X-ray films
40:58
Dr mantic's optical density measurements prove that the autopsy x-rays have been
41:03
altered to mass the frontal shots and offers forensic proof that JFK was hit
41:09
by Two Shots from the right front and one shot from the rear which proves that
41:15
Lee Harvey Oswald could not have been the lone
41:21
assassin Dr Mantic and I discussed it too and so we both decided let's let's
41:26
go and and take a look at the MPI transparencies at the six floor Museum
41:32
MH because they had by then we had figured out that they were supposedly
41:38
according to the government they were the top quality element in the world
41:43
that you could see so again we had to get special permission and these are just Stills taken from the film correct
41:49
correct I had no idea what I was doing and and Dr Mantic did but I met him
41:54
there and we didn't really say anything about what we were doing we just wanted to look at the these transparencies yeah
42:02
and uh so we sat down in the conference room and you know they take everything away
42:08
from you you can't bring your cell phone in you can't bring a pen in you can't do anything and and the curator of the
42:14
museum who has since passed away but was very um he knew who Dr Mantic was and
42:21
knew that Dr Mantic uh was a firm believer after knowing all about the
42:27
autopsy evidence that JFK was not killed from a lone gunman from behind yeah um
42:34
so he was he was in the room the whole time kind of skeptical I don't know what he was doing
42:39
he was staring at us and as we got to the frames near the near his head and
42:45
the the head shot um all of a sudden it it it was so egregious again more so
42:52
than our film element right in front of me another big huge patch Fram after
42:57
frame and poor Dr Mantic who was sitting next to me he's not a very good actor um
43:04
and and I'm I'm even worse but I I kept it together I was just about to jump I'm like holy F and and so I'm like oh oh
43:12
wow look at this and Dr Mantic takes a look said oh yeah and and and so I
43:18
had kicked him under the table and then we went from there and it was just amazing it just blew our minds we left
43:25
there that day um I called Tom immediately and Doug immediately and and
43:30
the the the people who had helped us so far who were experts um technical exer
43:36
experts here in Hollywood and I said oh my God you guys you're not going to believe this it is so obvious even more
43:42
so so it just proved Without A Reasonable Doubt to us that something
43:48
had happened to this film somebody somewhere somehow had painted over a
43:54
black patch where we believe and exit wound or wounds plural were to hide the
44:01
OB the the true story of what really happened it was it was so egregious yeah
44:07
and there were doctors and other U medical experts at the Parkland Hospital
44:12
who attested have testified to this huge uh wound in the back of his head can you
44:18
talk about that Tom yeah we got a chance to interview probably one of the first
44:24
Prime witnesses to the event his name is Dr Robert mcclelen mhm and he was a
44:32
surgeon on the staff at Parkland Hospital and he stood directly when the
44:39
president was laid on his back he stood directly behind the president's head on
44:44
the right side and he watched rain material right come out of a hole in the
44:51
back of his head this was his story from the beginning it was the story every
44:56
time he related it to anyone whether governmental whether under oath or as
45:02
part of an interview he said that the exit wound was in the back of the head
45:08
now the other important thing to notice is that not only did we find a patch on the black on the back of the head MH
45:16
we're also looking at this other wound that didn't exist on the
45:24
forehead on the side of the right side of the president's head yeah that we see
45:29
in the zaber film but nobody saw it in Dallas nobody saw that wound in Dallas
45:36
huh and we were fortunate enough um Dr melen has since passed but years ago we
45:42
got him to look at the zaber film and as part of the documentary production we've
45:49
been working on he's on camera pointing to the famous uh frame 3 17 which is
45:57
where you see on our copy of the film the most egregious black patch and he's
46:04
looking at it pointing to it and saying what that thing is on his forehead I
46:09
have no idea what I saw was a wound in that area where we see the black dot
46:16
yeah and and to to add to that every single person in Parkland Hospital in
46:21
the ER room where he was rushed to to try to save his life um every single one
46:27
of them said they saw nothing nothing no wound at all and the front right of his
46:33
head yeah all they saw was a gaping black open hole in the back of his head
46:38
yeah and when you look at the zuder fil the official zaber film today on pretty
46:44
much any copy you see on TV or whatever you have the back into the the left head
46:51
shot you see his right front of his entire forehead open up huge I mean huge
46:59
it's like it sliced his head forehead down the middle and this huge flap Co
47:04
open and nobody at Parkland Hospital not one uh medical expert saw that which was
47:11
another reason why Tom and I couldn't we're looking at what we the element we
47:16
got and we're reading and and listening to every single interview from any uh
47:22
any and every Parkland um doctor not one of them said they saw this gaping wound
47:27
that officially is what you see now in the today's bruta film so and then also
47:34
in the autopsy nobody saw that either so it just yeah it was um ey dropping yeah
47:41
so it it clearly shows that they had manipulated the the original film to
47:47
prove their theory that he had been shot from the back when in fact the evidence
47:53
of the patch and the manipulation of the film proved proves otherwise and that
47:58
goes along with what the eyewitnesses saw all of them correct
48:04
exactly all of them now there was a there were a couple of the doctors and
48:09
nurses there that believed that they saw a small wound right at the scalp line on
48:16
the front of the president's forehead which would have been an entry entry wound correct yeah and uh without
48:23
getting into the weeds too deeply on it um there there's there's a lot of
48:28
evidence to support that that would have been the entry wound for what ended up
48:33
uh killing the president mhm then there's the whole Magic Bullet that is
48:38
Infamous and that supposedly was shot through his neck came out the front and
48:44
um the the doctors in the ER room at Parkland all thought it was an entrance wound from the neck not an exit wound
48:52
and that sort of been is has been dispelled but still the official story yeah the official
48:59
story states that Oswald reportedly fired three bullets One
49:05
Missed uh the other one hit the president in the back came out of his
49:10
neck and then landed into Governor John Connelly who was sitting in the seat in
49:15
front of the president yeah our looking at the zaber film with the resolution we
49:22
have convinces us that there was no such bullet that ever could have done that MH
49:28
because we clearly see the president reacting to a wound in his neck by
49:34
lifting his hands up MH to cover the wound and Governor Connelly is still
49:41
holding in his hand a ston hat that if if he had gotten the wounds
49:49
that he in the film we see him holding his hat yeah if he had been wounded the
49:56
way they discovered his wounds at the hospital when they worked to save him as well because he was also wounded there
50:03
were two people shot yeah he was holding a ston hat in a hand whose wrist had
50:11
gotten blown away by this bullet yeah so there's no possible way that he could
50:17
have been wounded at the time we see the president reacting to the wound in his neck interesting right there we have
50:24
proof that there was no magic bullet right that there were more than three shots yeah which is also what people in
50:31
Daily Plaza describe correct and just um over the weekend in the New York Times I
50:37
saw that did you see that yeah there's a new book coming out yes Paul Landis um he was as you probably read and he he
50:45
dispels it as well yeah so the Magic Bullet we don't like getting into the details and about that because we don't
50:52
consider it um much of anything but it is the off official story still yeah
50:58
right so Tom what is your theory in terms of when this patch and when this
51:05
manipulation of the film appeared it must have happened right away yes um the
51:12
timeline of the film is is fascinating MH it it it actually has um a lot of
51:21
twists and turns of course and there are gaps in the possession of the film
51:27
that lead us to the belief that at some point over the weekend following the
51:35
assassination that the film was altered yeah to match the story
51:42
of the uh lone nut six stories up right
51:48
they had to maintain that because they had to make sure that that
51:54
story carried because would have been too easy to blame the Soviets at that
52:00
time or blame the Cubans Cubans and could possibly
52:07
trigger a nuclear exchange over this yeah so they had to make it the act of
52:13
one man MH that was crazy and they they did everything
52:19
they could so the film was most likely altered that in a film lab using a very
52:26
uh very low Tech solution of um a a way that it's called
52:33
aerial Imaging it's when you have a camera down shooting that will expose a
52:39
new image where the old image is projected From Below onto a uh
52:47
transparent piece of glass MH and then you can put uh an overlay of a clear
52:54
acetate cell which you can draw on on and place it on top of ah now the
53:00
research into the Zer film has gone many many different ways and many different
53:05
ideas of what was changed and to make it fit the story and when and when and
53:11
where right and yeah and we believe that the film had to have been altered in a
53:17
rather rapid fashion and all it really had to do was get rid of the evidence of
53:24
a wound in the back of the head and put a new wound on the front of the head that's what our belief is MHM and then
53:32
the autopsy had to match because the autopsy was being done that weekend as well yeah so in our opinion it looked
53:40
like it was a they had to get this done by the weekend because um by Monday the
53:46
official story was coming out and they were Time Life Magazine was releasing all sorts of photos that are very
53:53
interesting as well but they had to get it done that weekend so if you're doing a rush job and you
53:59
you have to our opinion you to make it look like it was just one loan guy from
54:05
six stories up and behind you got to make the autopsy kind of match what you see on the zaber film and so we believe
54:13
it was a real rush job on in both areas um and where it was done is a whole
54:19
different you know that's still a big question but Doug horn has an amazing
54:25
has done some amazing research about it and a secret lab at Kodak in Rochester
54:31
New York Douglas P horn served on the
54:36
assassination records review board for the last three years of its 4-year
54:41
existence from August 1995 to September 1998 he's the foremost expert on the
54:48
chain of custody of the zuder film immediately after the
54:54
assassination in addition to dealing with with military records Mr horn worked exclusively with JFK Medical
55:01
evidence and on all issues related to the zeer film over years of study and
55:07
interviews with people who were involved in the film's processing and handling he
55:13
has concluded that the film's original imagery was altered one of the people he consulted
55:19
was a former senior Analyst at the cia's national photographic interpretation
55:25
Center a man named Dino a broni Mr Bron had been shown the zaber
55:31
film the day after the assassination for the purpose of making enlargements
55:37
blowout prints from Individual frames for the CIA and Secret Service he has
55:43
since stated that the head explosion seen today in the current version of the zaber film is markedly different from
55:51
what he saw on November 23rd 1963 when he work with what he was
55:57
certain was the camera original film Mr brugioni is also adamant that the set of
56:04
briefing boards available to the public in the National Archives is not the set
56:10
he and his team produced on November 23rd
56:15
[Music] 1963 it's impossible to track down at
56:20
this point but uh it just adds to the the uh what we believe is true yeah so
56:26
Tom does the original Sauer film exist I don't
56:32
know it did it it could have been destroyed yeah the original film could
56:37
have been destroyed a number of researchers have uh posterized that it would end up in uh
56:45
some rich guy's Vault to show his friends you know here's how we got Kennedy right the government of course
56:51
says this is the final film this is the original out of camera right right right the one very interesting thing about the
56:57
the actual photographic process Abraham Z Brer who owned the camera owned a
57:04
business nearby de Plaza and he went over on his lunch hour to shoot the motorcade it was a very simple yeah uh
57:11
innocent thing that was and the reason his film is so important is that it's the only record of the assassination
57:18
that follows the entire assassination sequence from start to finish and that's why it is so critical
57:26
is establish the timeline of when wounds happened and when shots might have been fired um it it sort of became the
57:33
timeline of the entire assassination sequence now the film he had the camera
57:39
he had was an 8 MIM camera not Super 8 but 8 mm the film is actually 16 mm wide
57:47
and it goes through the film in one direction for 25 ft8 it's what they call
57:52
eight millim and it's a Cod Chrome film process which is a veral film and what that means is I'm sure some of your
58:00
listeners have seen negative film and you hold it up and it's very orange looking and you can barely make out
58:07
anything that's there Cod Chrome was reversal meaning that it was exposed and
58:12
the processing after it was processed it would show a positive image yeah so for
58:17
home movies it was perfect you just you're shooting the camera you process it you look at it there it is yeah now
58:24
were there other anomalies in the the Brer film that that you saw because I
58:29
I've watched it lots of times and I noticed that when the car comes around
58:34
the corner there's a break in the film yes was that manipulated or was that a
58:40
natural break that he stop filming when you watch it it's jarring it's kind of weird correct and the Brer said uh that
58:49
he never stopped filming okay everything he shot was purportedly in one
58:54
continuous take which makes sense you're there to see the president and you why would you stop when he starts coming
59:02
into view it make it makes no sense yes and the another proof that it could have
59:07
been uh that he didn't stop and that the film has been had those frames
59:14
excised is that when the camera stops and starts up again in uh the way
59:22
cameras are physically it takes a moment for the cameras to get up to speed and
59:28
when they do that they generally get a white flash or an overexposure for a frame or two as they're getting up to
59:35
speed yeah I've seen that yeah yeah yeah and when the zuder film starts back up
59:41
there is no first frame overexposure which would indicate a
59:46
splice yeah the film was sold by Abraham a Bruder on a Saturday morning to Time
59:52
Life magazine for print wrs MH and and they took possession of the original and
59:58
a copy there were two other copies made and both went with the Secret Service that were made on Friday so the the film
1:00:05
was taken away and when life had the possession of the film they were going to take particular Stills and put them
1:00:13
into their December 2nd issue to show the uh images they ended up using black
1:00:19
and white very low resolution images and none of them showing the president's
1:00:25
wound per se yeah uh because they didn't want to shock the American people yeah
1:00:30
but during the time they were handling it to areas of the film were accidentally damaged and they crudely
1:00:38
put the film back together which brings up another interesting thing this film as an historic record
1:00:46
is almost like no other image file yeah that exists and yet they were handling
1:00:54
it with their fingers they were you know they were handling it very clumsily they weren't treating it like the artifact it
1:01:00
was they were treating it like it was a wire photo which they used back in the day they were treating it like it was it
1:01:07
meant nothing but it was so critical yeah to to everything that followed and the film that we look at today is in
1:01:13
deplorable Condition it's horrible it's scratched it has dirt it has fingerprints all over it and you know
1:01:21
part of our project has been to get the government to clean this thing up and protect it and they won't touch it now
1:01:28
yeah when um Deluxe was uh helping us back in 2008 9 10 and 11 I believe I was
1:01:35
authorized to offer uh national archives for deluxe to completely restore it for
1:01:42
free restore preserve whatever they needed to do for free and uh the quote I
1:01:50
got from from the head there was um it would take an act of God or an act of
1:01:56
Congress to ever take it out of Cold Storage again wow so that is still their
1:02:01
official uh word when you contact them about the original film um it's locked
1:02:07
away forever they never want to pull it out again which means it is deteriorating which is tragic it's you
1:02:13
know it's it's tragic so Tom you said that they right away they made what was
1:02:19
it two or three copies of the film correct they made three copies of three copies now this is before Life Magazine
1:02:26
took their Stills and damaged the film is that correct correct okay so there there does exist somewhere a full zeer
1:02:36
film without whatever edits they made in it correct there exists uh without those
1:02:44
two areas of damaged frames yeah there exists two Secret Service copies and
1:02:50
another uh copy that time life got um the original was the one that lost those
1:02:56
but the uh question of the of when the motorcade sequence was changed they all
1:03:03
have that on board all of them even the copies yes wow so whatever they took out
1:03:11
must have been really damaging to their case because why would they take out
1:03:17
certain frames of the film yes it's an entire sequence where the the Brer would
1:03:23
have panned the camera from right to left and it would have very possibly exposed an area of other
1:03:31
buildings where researchers believe that other gunmen were located okay and that
1:03:39
was a way of getting rid of that possibility that they would see that okay interesting can you talk about your
1:03:46
project and where you are with it I understand that you're you're still in
1:03:51
the process of getting the funding to finish it and and release it we started
1:03:58
doing this simply as uh we didn't have any greater purpose for this at all we
1:04:05
were just in a position where we had access to technology that very few people in the world have access to for a
1:04:13
pet project and we had a physical copy of the most important film of the 20th
1:04:19
century and so ours was pretty much uh sort of starting as a research project
1:04:25
but but the more we dove into it the more we realize the story behind this piece of film and the other images that
1:04:32
were exposed in De Plaza and the uh X-ray and autopsy
1:04:39
evidence the photographs from the autopsy they all tell an incredibly different story than what the government
1:04:45
tells us and so we began to see sort of the inklings of an idea to make um some
1:04:52
kind of a a a story yeah about what we had discovered yeah so we started uh um
1:05:00
a young we started a a a couple in a film camera Productions we started
1:05:05
traveling around the country yeah uh in our carry-on bags with a high def camera
1:05:10
and lighting equipment in our suitcases wrapped up uh in clothing that we took
1:05:15
we did a lot of uh interviews to to support just to see if we get some answers on this thing and we thankfully
1:05:22
we we recorded them and we have some great participants in in this project so far um a number of
1:05:29
course have passed unfortunately because a lot of the primary Witnesses from
1:05:35
1963 um have passed away and we were fortunate enough to get their interviews
1:05:41
uh locked onto a data file before before they would pass away uh so we began to
1:05:48
see a a possibility to really make some kind of a a a program like that uh the
1:05:54
problem is that so much of the content from that film from that that we would use in our
1:06:01
film is copywritten and the copyright holders in some cases want huge sums of money to be
1:06:09
able to get them released yeah and we've seen uh in particular we saw one case of
1:06:15
somebody who did a film that included the zeer film without paying the royalty
1:06:21
of the copyright fee and they got shut down hard and fast yeah and that would
1:06:27
be contrary to what we would like to see happen yeah um so we did what we could
1:06:32
self financing um you know flying coach with uh lighting equipment a sound equipment
1:06:39
wrapped in uh uh our shirts yeah but um at this point now we've still have been
1:06:44
working on it but it's a case where to move forward any further um we we can't
1:06:50
come up with the with the kind of money it takes to to create a feature film
1:06:56
while we were working on this project the uh film Parkland came out a dramatic
1:07:01
film based upon mostly true events and they included the Zer film in that now I
1:07:09
happened to be working at Deluxe when they were doing some kind of distribution for it and I got to see the
1:07:15
Parkland film on a video machine and could jog through it one frame at a time and when
1:07:22
I did that on the zabu film I slowly joged through through it and they had taken out frame 313 which is the head
1:07:31
shot yeah so the six floor mum evidently in order to license that film they
1:07:37
required that that frame be taken out for purposes of taste
1:07:44
yeah so they have now um some legal standing with excising a portion of the
1:07:50
film yeah and our concern is if we run in there and say yeah we want to see every frame they nope sorry you can't
1:07:56
look at 313 you can't look at 317 you can't because of taste yeah so that
1:08:03
would require some legal representation which is you know yeah expensive Ching
1:08:08
may I add just one more thing that that um I don't think we covered when Dr Mantic and I went and saw the film uh
1:08:15
the MPI transparencies at the sixth floor Museum in 2009 and saw oh my gosh it was
1:08:23
definitely a patch and proof positive that our element showed exactly what we saw even worse um the next year I
1:08:31
brought Tom with me back to to look at the same uh MPI transparencies and they were
1:08:39
completely different we were told by the museum that they were the exact same things I had seen the year before but
1:08:46
they had now the back of the head and the all the frames during the um head
1:08:52
shot before and after were now just looked like black sort of a shadow like you see on any element yeah on TV or
1:09:00
documentaries or on the Internet so um it was nothing like what I'd seen with
1:09:06
Dr Mantic the year before and then when we left uh the museum that day I called
1:09:11
Dr Mantic and was very upset about it and uh he couldn't make it that year but
1:09:17
he went the following year yeah to double check for himself to see if it was still the case that what we saw in
1:09:25
20 9 was no longer there and he agreed and he said we don't know H how when
1:09:32
where or why but what you can now see as the MPI transparencies at the Museum six
1:09:39
floor Museum are not what Dr Mantic and I saw in 2009 or what we see on our film
1:09:47
element wow and the other downside to that was in uh 2010 when she and I went back
1:09:55
to look and saw no evidence of a black patch on the six floor Museum's transparencies a number of other
1:10:02
researchers had gotten interested in what we had seen and they went to look at the transparencies and they look at
1:10:08
it and go it's a shadow these people are you know uh they're they're not being
1:10:14
truthful about this now right there is one very important thing to know m is
1:10:19
that we aren't the only people who asked for a 35mm copy of the film to evaluate
1:10:24
from where we saw the black patch another film producer and director team
1:10:30
that were doing a great documentary called coup and Camelot got a copy for themselves now they got it a little bit
1:10:37
too late to put in their show but they did look at it and did the same proc
1:10:43
process we did to scan it to 6K and looked at it and the director said sure
1:10:48
enough there it is a black patch in the shape of the state of Ohio yeah so here
1:10:55
we are now our reputations are being by that's what they do oh yeah
1:11:02
we're accused of altering it and all sorts of horrible things yeah yeah yeah and and the the assassination community
1:11:09
and I use that term in entirely loose context the JFK assassination
1:11:16
Community has so many researchers that fall in love with their research finding
1:11:22
some are true some are hypoth es some are just out the window yeah and it
1:11:30
becomes almost an ownership of Pride yeah and in in a a lot of them are very
1:11:37
locked into their world viiew of that event sure and to look at anything even
1:11:43
slightly different from that is heresy right and some of them are very well respected so it's interesting that is up
1:11:51
until 2009 or 10 they were still manipulating they were still
1:11:58
playing and with with the zuder images it was that it's that important to
1:12:04
uphold their single gunman Theory even though according to polls most Americans
1:12:11
don't believe it at all anymore correct correct we aren't going to say that uh
1:12:17
the frames were changed we're saying that what we saw what Sydney and Dr
1:12:24
Mantic saw in 9 is what we see on our 35mm frame but you do not see today if
1:12:31
you go to the sixf floor Museum and look at it again okay that's what we're saying and they are the official owners
1:12:39
they're a 501c3 they have a uh they have a Historical Museum that's on the National
1:12:45
Registry the building is on the National Registry they want to they want to change the whole narrative now they for
1:12:52
a while they were talking about destroying the building in De Plaza we're talking about reworking and they may still rework some
1:13:00
of the landscape and Hardscape there um because people could go down there and
1:13:06
with the new technology you see that's the thing about 1963 they never thought
1:13:11
that the technology would Advance they thought they could sell a story in 1964 with the Warren Commission and that
1:13:18
would be it that would nobody would question it ever right right and they had it covered well now they know that
1:13:24
so many many people have gone through they've analyzed the audio evidence they've analyed the Imaging that yeah
1:13:30
the the the dozens and dozens of witnesses that say it didn't happen the way the government said it I saw was
1:13:36
there I saw it it didn't happen that way yeah and they were excluded from the warrant commission uh report yeah of
1:13:42
course yeah and other reports too and the the house assassination committee
1:13:47
that was done in ended in 1978 78 actually the conclusion which you hardly
1:13:54
ever hear about all you hear about is the conclusion from the warrant commission which was one loan nut from
1:14:01
behind blah blah blah the conclusion of the h