Jim Jenkins 2018 w/ PBD: JFK Autopsy, Body Transit to Bethesda; Different Coffin, Different Brain

SECTIONS-
At 6:30 he talks about his interview with the HSCA.
At 26:51 he talks about what he saw at the autopsy.
At 30:23 he talks about an incision and prior surgery on the head.
At 37:32 he talks about the headwounds and the direction of the shots.
At 41:50 he talks about the doctors who wrote the official autopsy report.
At 43:48 he talks about who could possibly be behind the conspiracy.
At 51:30 they are in Dealey Plaza discussing where the shots came from.

AUTO TRANSCRIPT-

0:00
The wound bills in the back was not a fatal one. I did help John Kennedy's brain. Yes
0:06
Well, I assume it was john, f kennedy's brain When the body first came in and you sod did you notice anything out of the ordinary
0:14
There's a portion of the brain here that was missing. There was an incision in the scalp. Why would there be an incision?
0:21
That's a good question Throat one probably would have come from over the bridge probably right right off of the railroad
0:32
What's your opinion on Lyndon Johnson Who was it two people that benefited the most him in
0:48
Soloq if the topic of JFK assassination intrigues you you're gonna love today's interview Here's why obviously I've had other people on value tenman before with Clint Hill who was a former Secret Service agent
0:59
He was the first agent that jumped on the car when John F Kennedy was shot We've also had Abraham Bowden who was the first African American Secret Service agent. But today we go complete different angle
1:10
Today I wanted to sit down with somebody. This is very rare because it's been 55 years since the event the assassination, November 22nd
1:19
1963 when the autopsy happened there were four people in the room. Who did the autopsy
1:25
He is one of them and during the autopsy three people held the brain. This is what we have the brain here
1:32
He held the brain. He was one of them and he saw some stuff That's gonna surprise you and we're time as somebody that witnessed
1:39
What he saw in the brain that's different than maybe what you've read about and so we're gonna take a deep deep dive today on
1:45
What happened from the moment the body was announced dead to the delivery to Air Force One From there to protest that the casket go with Jackie did it go with somebody else? What happened there?
1:56
All I can tell you is I'm gonna ask one question during this interview that I'm so curious with the answer and we're gonna see what Jim Jenkins gonna tell us today in this interview with that being said,
2:06
Jim thank you so much for coming down and being willing to open up and talk about this topic with us Thank you for inviting your document it all over the place
2:14
If you go read any the you know, the autopsies any of the reports, whether it's the Warren Commission Whatever the reports you read your document or there are somebody that was a part of it
2:23
But you've not wanted to come out and talk a lot about it Now obviously William a friend of yours who decided to write a book with you
2:30
Kind of maybe persuaded you to say this is a story. We need to go tell are you willing to do it? But first I want to thank you secondly
2:38
Is that want to kind of a get some thoughts from you on? What caused you not want to talk about it all this year all these years and why now, are you a little bit more?
2:48
I have to answer The people who asked me and it's like, you know If I had told you when I was in graduate school that I did the autopsy
2:57
you know JFK, would you ever believe me and That's kind of the way that I look at it
3:03
It was a part of it the fact that you didn't think people would believe you If you told them that because if we were friends, let's just say I'm your friend and I'm your best man at your wedding
3:11
well You're my best man at my wedding and you told me something like that like oh my gosh, Jim That's crazy to really tell me about it. I'd want to know more as a friend on what you did
3:18
You seem like a private guy. He seemed like a simple man You don't seem like a you know, he seemed like you just wanted you've been married since August of 63
3:26
Was there also part of it? We just didn't want people to have a certain level of intrusion on your personal life
3:31
I think a lot of it was that. Okay. There's a lot of Memories that I have in that book that are specific but there are other things in the book that I remember
3:42
That I've tried to you know, try to tie in some of the events when I first began this book
3:47
I was going to read and and I have all kinds of books have a bookcase
3:53
the books that people have sent me over the years I Haven't read them. I'm from Iran. So it's born in Iran. I saw the war I saw people dying
4:02
I saw things that happened that maybe you don't necessarily want to experience I saw something weird scenes in my left with ten thousand men
4:09
Flagellating their backs on the streets and there's a streak of blood I mean, I was eight years old and I saw that that's not something I want to see again, right?
4:17
Was this one of those things where you said man? This was so traumatic on me that I don't ever want to revisit it or was it the fact that you were just doing your job you have a lack of
4:27
Interest on the topic, like honestly, you know, it just so happened. I accidentally was chosen to be a part of this
4:33
I didn't choose to be a part of this. I was just doing my job. Which one would you say was more? I think the latter. Okay god, I this is not a
4:41
You know It's not a highlight of my life. It hasn't affected my life
4:46
at all, but I think that's because I Really you're not Participated in it. What's the reasoning though?
4:53
Paul O'Connor was the other core woman right by the way Just to say when you say the other core mean the other core man who was part of the RIT
5:00
They were too. I was only two of us Pauline George's You know being involved and that type of thing I had other goals in my life most of the participation that I have done
5:12
Was at the encouragement of Paul Paul would call me and say well, you know This individual once wants to interview you I would be hissing about and he said well if hall would tell me well
5:23
He's a good guy, but it was it was a reluctance somewhat hard, you know I didn't want to get involved in all of what was going on
5:30
is this after the two gentlemen who were kind of hostile to you with the HSC a Committee that they interviewed you even after that you were open to it or after he like, I'm not doing any interviews
5:39
Well, the interview was interesting. I was in graduate school at that time I was in my office and I got a call from a lady and she told me that these two individuals
5:49
Kelly and Purdy were going to show up at my house on such-and-such state is such a such time and
5:56
They were going to talk to me About my participation and in the autopsy. I said no you're not I
6:04
Said you're not going to come to my house. I don't know you you're strangers So then she told me that this was a congress mandated
6:12
Commission and that I Was compelled to do this or they would subpoena me at that time. I was at Jackson, Mississippi and in the medical school there and
6:23
so I went to my local congressman one of his aides
6:29
Checked to make sure that this was legitimate and he suggested that I meet in his office
6:35
So I met Purdy and Kelly in his office. It wasn't an amiable type
6:41
Situation they had told me that that Ferdie and Kelly were actually lawyers for the House Select Committee
6:46
Anyway, they were going to come in to take a deposition Well when? the secretary
6:52
for a congressman checks their credentials we found out that
6:58
Indeed Purdy was an attorney. The Kelly was an FBI agent. What were they trying to get from you though?
7:04
I mean What did they would they conspiracy a conspiratorial? Did trying to they basically were looking for confirmation of the Warren Commission findings
7:13
They wanted me to firm that the magic bullet was yeah yeah, and in a single Bullet theory was correct and
7:22
they never really asked me, you know, basically what I did what I saw or
7:30
what I participated in and every time I would
7:36
they were they were always saying well that King possibly happened because of this this and this they say well, you know
7:42
I don't know another witnesses said this there are there was only the doctors and
7:49
Paul So I knew that you know what they were saying came from
7:56
from one of those individuals and this one you knew that in a moment based on the question because see I
8:03
Until Paul called me in and talked to me about this interview. They were are this deposition?
8:10
I Really never discussed the autopsy with Paul and so wait a minute
8:15
So after the autopsy you and Paul didn't have a debrief. You guys didn't talk about it and nothing ever. I don't know
8:20
No, because we were given orders you know, we were given orders by the Secretary of the Navy and
8:28
also by Department of Defense not to
8:33
discuss him So so the only reason you were open to the House Committee coming to you is because it's coming from Congress
8:39
Well that it wasn't Plus. That was the first time they rescinded the orders
8:44
Got it We they sent us letters for sending Miller's when they interviewed. You did. Did you get a feeling that they were for?
8:52
What the Warren Commission came out and they results that's what they said Oh, were they against it to try to get?
8:59
conspiracy were they kind of trying to get the check mark from you to say that he also agrees that what they said in the Warren Commission is accurate. I said I believe that's I mean that was my my feeling did you watch JFK movies?
9:09
Did you watch the you know, did you watch anything so you do know till today? You don't you don't watch or follow any of this. You've never been to the Dealey Plaza before no for 55 years. You have fully
9:21
Disconnected that part of your life to not have to be tied to it. I was actually surprised about
9:29
No interest that people had in this after the 50 years
9:35
We were surprised by them. Oh, yes. Why would you be surprised by its a president that was assassinated was well
9:41
I mean the assassination and to me in such an enigma and it's never had a legal conclusion
9:48
The conclusion has always been political. Would you want to see a legal conclude? Yes. I'd like to see usually participate in a legal
9:55
Yes Oh So you would be yeah So you so it's not the fact that you're just trying to set it aside and not do anything with it
10:03
So you would be you would like to see like you know what I think was 1995 when they came out with the AR RB
10:10
When they came out and they wanted to reinvestigate and find out what's going on and they went through certain things
10:15
You would want to see somebody else open it up again to go through an investigation to find out what happened a legal investigation
10:22
I know not political the investigation but everything even even the
10:28
Record Review Board, which is what you're speaking of It had restrictions when the Clark Commission was there all of the people appointed to the Commission
10:39
Had ties to the government. They had obligations to the government The pathologist's that reviewed the case and so forth
10:47
Are the doctors? I'm not sure although more pathologists but they had ties to doctors they had grants they were
10:57
participating in federal projects and that type of stuff and the one step probably would have been
11:05
more objective Certainly people like dr. Sarawak after the House Select
11:12
They were they were kind of excluded they were all pushed away. So there's never in my in my mind in my opinion
11:19
There's never been a real Objective committee or anything that's delved into this. Why do you think
11:27
why is it because if we found that we would all be well, I think that we
11:33
that that gets into Some things and and I'm only judging and I can only judge by the autopsy in and there
11:43
more people out there that know more about anything outside that more than I do, but I
11:49
It just doesn't make sense That what we saw at the morgue what we did it to more and what I participate in
11:58
Like the brain, you know, there were two FBI agents that said there was no brain. Paul said there was no brain
12:07
But yet Dr. Humes took a brain out of the cranium handed it to dr. Boswell and dr. Boswell and I went over and
12:15
I Knelt down and he gave me to the brain. I turned it upside down put it in the sling you did
12:22
I did help John Kennedy's brain. Yes. Well, I Assume it was john. F kennedy's brother. That's one other part, right? So right and
12:31
What you know is the book describes and in that I don't know if you I've been asked many times
12:38
Is it was it? John f kennedy's brain? do you think it was I haven't I really don't have any any way of knowing and neither does anyone else unless
12:49
Somebody who? Who really participated in in? You know
12:56
covering up some parts of the assassination can come forth and say now I'm also personal mistake in that since
13:05
There's so much stuff that's come out that if I relate it back to what I saw and so forth
13:12
There's always a question about it It sounds like you believe it's important for us to know the truth on what happened
13:17
But you also believe that if it's a government investigation being done Whoever's involved on the inside if it's only the government controlling and not on the other side
13:26
We're only gonna get the answer from somebody's on the inside. Well, for instance, I've worked with a friend of mine
13:33
who's a neurologist I've tried to be allowed to go into the archives and review the
13:41
photographs and any evidence that they have there I've been denied but yet he he was allowed in and
13:51
To see the x-rays and so forth now Those x-rays I fade-in. I actually helped
14:00
position of the body and so forth and when the first set of x-rays that we did I remember the first photographs went ahead was first unwrapped
14:08
They took photographs all during the autopsy, and I was busy so I really wasn't paying much attention to that
14:14
But there's a photographs from the Fox photographs
14:20
They're strange But let me ask you this because you said you didn't have interest but why were you asking to money to get the photographs?
14:27
it was there a moment where you kind of felt obligated to want to find out again some answers because well
14:32
It sounds like there's a little bit of conflicted The willingness the desire and also at the same time wanted to stay away three years ago
14:39
I committed to this to writing this book and All of this has occurred within that time frame. So you asked for the photographs on the last three years
14:48
Oh, yeah, so your desire to want to go deeper on this is the last three years well, I have talked to you like said the friend of mine the neurologist and
14:58
He and I have discussed what he saw in the archives and what I remember seeing
15:04
Or what? I actually participated in and remember seeing we've come to some conclusions, but not really
15:10
things that I would consider to be emphatically true Okay
15:15
As far as participating in this three years ago when I when I finally agreed to do this if William wood
15:22
would furnish because I I'm basically finding in medicine and science and I'm not a
15:29
Journalist or a writer and he agreed to help with you. Then his first suggestion was that I need to start reading
15:38
the material I started a couple of books, but then I began to realize that if I read all of this material then I
15:49
May have a little brain melt, you know, and it might come in because you know 50-year old memories
15:58
are difficult enough to begin with so I stopped doing that and
16:03
Then I began to talk to the people that I knew we're at Bethesda not necessarily in the morgue
16:09
We're at Bethesda. And then I I was fortunate enough to be able to talk to
16:16
the honor guard people gentleman named Dennis David who was in charge of a
16:22
Detail that actually he was an e6 who became an officer later on. I'm you sir for we love and yours, I think right
16:28
Yeah, what did he tell you when you spoke to him? Well, he he and I talked about the
16:33
Unloading of the body from from the black hearse Dennis gave me more of a time frame than anything else because I was in the morgue actually from about 3:30 in the afternoon
16:42
To about 8 9 o'clock the next morning You knew the body was coming. We were told about he was coming. Yes. Would you mind us going through the
16:53
Timeline of what happened from the moment they found out he's dead
16:59
To the moments because that's where that's where the challenges with this story. Right? I mean you write autopsies
17:04
I've been challenged for me when I look at it. I'm a numbers guy So first they find out he's dead boom checkmark, then they say let's put his body
17:13
They wrap him up in a nice. They put him in a really nice casket. They take him to Air Force One. That's number two
17:19
Lyndon Johnson's waiting there rather than going back to DC to have the body being delivered to the plane
17:25
Which is kind of a little bit wild for that gets to Air Force One then they fly back to Bethesda
17:31
DC they land They take that nice casket and they put it in the automobile that Jackie Kennedy is writing you to go to
17:40
Where you're at the morgue they arrived actually at 7:30 But the body doesn't come in to 717 and the body doesn't come in till 8:00 and the challenge that I'm seeing
17:49
There is another automobile delivers cascade that's used for Vietnam veterans back in the days just to gb type of casket that
17:59
apparently they took John F Kennedy and they put him in a body bag and they put him there and that was Brought to you guys at around 6:00 at 6:30. There's an hour and a half before 8 o'clock. So
18:10
That's the part. That's completely cure see and again - I really don't have
18:16
Any insight into that either but reports are at the boys young report. And yeah All of that him and Dennis David's timing and seeing this I had to have a timeline for this
18:28
As I was writing it I had no personal timeline because you know all I saw
18:34
Was the body being brought in in? What I consider to be a shipping casket that
18:41
Was striking in the fact is that it was the president's body in that in that such a ordinarily you saw that yes
18:49
Yes, you saw the shipping cast. Yes, I did and that's not typical protocol to put a president under shipping casket
18:56
I wouldn't think so you witnessed at yours. Yes. I saw checkmark in that time. Well, you saw that part
19:01
Yeah, the casket came in and it was brought in by by people they were in
19:09
Business suits mmm, and they may have been a couple of military officers with it, but they were brought it was brought in and it was
19:19
brought Into the morgue proper sat down on the floor Paul
19:26
Helped them take the body out and they put the body on the table in front of me now
19:31
I've you I'm used to Dennis Davis timeline and I use it because
19:37
sergeant Morgan's action report stated 635 several years ago. We talked to an individual his name and was well, he was dr. J
19:48
Scott I believe and he's told us that he was the officer of the day for the Vitesse a hospital during the conversation was with william law William asked him what time the
20:00
Body came in and he immediately said 6:30. So I took sergeant Boren and
20:07
Dr. Scott as collaboration for the time That Dennis quoted and then I used that time as a lie as a timeline for the autopsy
20:19
at that point in time I had memories but I I wasn't quite sure of sequencing of them and then over the three years that I've been
20:31
Writing this book. I basically just write sections and certain things and so forth and then each section would begin to support RS or
20:41
create questions about that particular memory the timeline that I use like I said as his Dennis's
20:48
That timeline gave me the ability to say the body was here at 6:30
20:53
When when the body was put on the table, everybody was asked to leave the body was still it was on the table
21:00
It's still wrapped in the sheets had anybody was separate and then dr. Boswell left the morgue for I
21:08
Don't know 15 20 minutes, maybe and I just assumed he was going back up to the laboratory to
21:14
You know talk to dr. Humes and while the bodies in front of you yeah, the body is in the morgue and the morgue what Paul and I this is what time I
21:24
assumed that had to be somewhere between 6:30 and 7:00 o'clock if I say it took him approximately
21:32
10 minutes to unload the body from the Hurst and bring it to do that because see
21:39
Dennis in his his group or his his crew. They did not bring him into the morgue
21:46
They brought it to the morgue door According to Dennis and then someone back. Yeah, and somebody took you from there
21:55
The morgue was set up where there was little any room that had Coll boxes where we put the bodies to me and then then it came into the morgue proper
22:05
So let me ask you from the moment. It was delivered to the morgue from the back Not the one with Jackie Kennedy had a right around 7:30 to 8:00 o'clock
22:12
I'm talking to one that arrived early from that moment word showed up in that cheap casket to the moment where you saw it
22:20
What was that time line? I would say probably no more than five minutes, okay, because you just was unloaded onto the to the dock and then
22:31
Brought in to them in through the double doors and then mork's mmediately to the left as soon as it came
22:37
through the door from the inner rooms and I saw the casket and That's when I that's what I remember. And the reason I remember that is the fact is that it was such a plain casket
22:49
You know and and that was that struck me as being the president's body would be in a in a
22:55
Transport casket now this entire time Jackie's thinking the bodies and ornate casket that she was driving in that that's the one that's being delivered
23:02
I really owe my part. That would be Conjecture or speculation got it. And
23:09
I'm not comfortable with that. We're getting into that Let's come back to when the body came in when the body first came in and you saw it
23:17
Did you notice anything out of the ordinary the body was? was wrapped
23:22
You know, the head was wrapped in sheets and the body was wrapped separately in sheets The body was taken out of the casket the morgue had two tables
23:29
We did the autopsy on the table where I was the casket the body was actually taken out between the back table and
23:39
He was on the floor and it was put on the table in front of me at that time
23:44
Dr. Boswell thanked everybody in nestin relief and everyone left the morgue then dr. Boswell left and
23:51
Paul and I were there we were told not to unwrap the body and not to let anyone in the morgue and about
23:59
15 minutes I say about 15 minutes later. Dr. Boswell came back and
24:05
We unwrapped about the body We left a head wrapped and then we spread a sheet over from the waist down and then dr
24:13
Boswell handed me the clipboard what we called a face sheet. It's a form where you put all scars
24:21
Wounds any surgical traumatic whatever. It's basically a
24:29
Superficial Description of everything then before you go to the body we were doing that as we were doing that
24:35
I was writing down. What dr. Boswell was Just telling me it's it was a little unusual to be doing it that way
24:43
it was Jesus the other way around while we were doing that just Almost when we were finished. Dr. Humes came in and he had a
24:53
He was followed by I believe three or four military officers they were
25:00
They were flag. Great. In other words. They were at rules are our general got it. The officers went into the gallery. Dr
25:07
Humes came to the table. I'm not exactly sure when dr. Fink came in
25:12
He was there when Humes unwrapped ahead. That's kind of con
25:18
Kindig turi to what he says. I mean we just reported to
25:24
his commanding officer, which he said he didn't come in until The brain the heart and the lungs were out of the body when in dr
25:33
Humes he unwrapped the head he and and dr. Fink examined the head and that in front of you
25:41
Oh, yeah Oh, well, I'm saying the shoulder I'm standing it's the right shoulder of the president looking down like that
25:47
And at this point how many autopsies have you done yourself up to this point? and how many brains have you seen a lot of no we
25:56
When I started I you know, it's Marian August. We went immediately. It's Bethesda
26:02
I started doing and my duty I was a student there. I had classes and so forth, but
26:08
Every fourth night I had duty and we would do Two maybe three autopsies a night. So I really don't know how many I had done. So you've seen a number of different
26:18
Yeah, I wound it brains. You've seen a different scenarios most of the things that we did it at
26:25
Bethesda were actually patients from the hospital I remember only probably one other trauma that I remember is that a sailor had night out and hit a
26:37
concrete barrier most of the others were People who had died from that we had drownings from Annapolis
26:45
Had you seen any other shooting like had you done an autopsy where there was a I know I had not got it
26:51
No, so while you're looking at Fink and Humes doing what they're doing What would what did you notice did you see anything different?
26:57
You know the description of the head wound that is in the autopsy report hesitate to use the word spin
27:03
But I think it's a spin on what what we really saw. Could you elaborate please?
27:09
well, it's actually the size of the wound
27:15
Location of the wound, I believe that the measurement that's in the autopsy report
27:20
Actually is the measurement of the wound Not of the opening where the bone and scalp was missing but actually was a measurement of the total
27:32
Wound shown after the scout was reflected In other words the whole right side of the head was malleable. You could actually just move it around with your hands
27:42
The skull was fractured in Multiple areas from would you mind if we take out the brain?
27:49
Yeah, you kind of showed to us what you would you mean by the little bit more visual. Is that okay with you?
27:54
Okay. Now the description of the wound is not going to be this is not going to give you a description of the of the
28:02
Wound itself. It's only going to be the skull the skull is going to give you a description of the one this will
28:08
Will give you an idea of what I saw the brain looked like as opposed to the extensive damage
28:16
that was in the autopsy report and
28:21
This brain the brain that that I had they
28:27
this should be about The damage for this brain was
28:34
basically in this area here That's what you saw. Yeah. Okay, there's a portion of the brain here
28:42
That that was missing fully missing. Yeah, okay But it was it was less than a third of the total brain
28:51
Less than a third of the total brain or less than a third of half the brain no the right side No, it's less than a third of the total brain. Okay was approximately the area right here. Got it
29:02
Okay, that's significant because in the autopsy report They say that over
29:08
Half of the total brain was was missing the other thing in the autopsy report
29:14
they say that there was a deep laceration that ran this way and
29:19
Was internally down into the ventricles here
29:25
and then also in the ear had a description of
29:31
It penetrating into this area here now the wound that I saw this is the occipital area here in the parietal area here and in the temporal area in
29:43
here the wound was here about approximately where my finger is and
29:48
It's extending down here. It was about three and a half inches long
29:55
Just being the length about two inches wide that was where the missing bone was and the missing tissue was
30:03
Okay, it wasn't it wasn't exactly a square or round thing the top of it of the wound was kind of domed
30:10
and it came down and kind of had a little Te'o type thing that came back down into here and then it kind of came back up
30:22
In this area now the strange thing about it was at this top of the wound here
30:28
There was an incision in the scallop they went Approximately to the coronal suture here. I
30:35
went a little bit past here an Incision an incision. Well, I saw right it was actually see. Why would there be an
30:44
That's a good question the scalp Had, you know remember all of this all this this portion in this area is fractured
30:54
Okay to the sagittal suture, which is this suture All of this area was fractured now, but it was it wasn't gone
31:02
it was he was still being kept intact by the by the scalp scalp had rents and tears in it and
31:09
along this area It seemed like that some of those tears in the scalp had been
31:20
surgically connected the little connections to follow fracture line in here
31:27
Okay, and that extended to about here? Okay, you know that was the same when when dr
31:35
Humes took the Wrappings off of the head. There was a secondary wrapping on it that I
31:41
you know, I think was the towel but the scalp and And the whole thing
31:47
this was all all matted hair and Missing scalloped torn scalp fatty tissue from underneath the scalp which is all normal. Yeah, which is all normal
31:57
Okay, it had kind of stuck to that secondary layer. So as he was taking it off
32:03
This Eric kind of gaped open but as soon as we separated it from
32:08
from the towel It went back together now
32:14
that significant rule and for the fact is that you could actually
32:20
If if you want you to do that you could actually lay this skull open you could actually take your hands and separate it
32:28
okay, so That would have given you access to the brain
32:34
Which means which Again speculations short as that fact is that that you would have had access?
32:44
You possibly had access to the rain before we received it in that in the morgue But where would they that is that's a question that I would force one on the drive. That's not enough time
32:56
Well, I don't know There's a lot of theories
33:02
There's a lot of probabilities last year. I have friends that were in school with me and and I visited one of their friends in DC and
33:13
Just out of curiosity william law and I we actually went to visit think Oh Franco Lennox it was given to
33:23
the military and Before World War one It was under
33:29
Walter Reed Walter Reed was responsible for it. They used it for
33:34
Convalescence for world one world war two patients and so forth So I wanted to check out that because there was an individual
33:42
Had speculated and he said that surgery was done a clandestine service surgery was done
33:48
At this Glen Cove annex, and so we decided to see if it was possible
33:53
we Drove to the complex Drove back to the back gate at Bethesda. He was eight minutes
34:02
GPS the funeral home that was involved in it was scholar's
34:09
we actually time to distance from Gaulish funeral home to Bethesda, which again was about eight minutes now and
34:18
Recently, we found that there may have been another funeral home that was involved in it Humphreys
34:25
paw fries supposedly had the Contract with Bethesda Naval Hospital at that time
34:35
understand I My command was not in the Naval Hospital My command was the Naval Medical School there. There's also a possibility that the person
34:47
Tom Robinson who performed who actually prepared the body along with a couple of other people was not an employee of
34:55
Callers he was an employee of Humphreys We haven't been able to confirm that I've tried in the last three years to get in touch with Tom Robinson
35:07
Not been able to do that. What will be the difference if that was a case? Well, I read an interview of Tom with a Swedish our Danish
35:20
Researcher Tom's description of the wounds and so forth are similar to
35:26
mine and almost Opposite of what's in you know?
35:31
what what's being told in public and so forth the exaggeration of the wounds when we receive the body there were other
35:38
other things that were unusual the Tracheotomy that we were told it was a tracheotomy in the throat very unusual even for an emergency trach
35:48
Why is that? Well, first of all I never really seen a trach that was done horizontally and I've never seen a trach
35:55
That was that large it also had some ragged edges. Dr Perry said that he actually had done that trach over a wound his description of the
36:06
trach wound that he did was Was what you normally would would expect
36:14
but if you did a trach there that was that Wide you wouldn't you would probably never do it
36:21
Because in that area you you there would be a danger of damaging the thyroid so you wouldn't
36:27
It wouldn't be even as an emergency trach. You wouldn't want to create more damage
36:32
And especially in this situation when you wouldn't want to damage one of the primary
36:39
life supporting organs that and
36:45
The wound in the head the only other wound that I actually saw
36:51
was the one in the back and It was it was in the upper back
36:57
at the upper border of the scapula but this is that's the wound that that was on the
37:05
Only head itself the wound wasn't obvious as to the extent of it and the margins and so forth until the scalp
37:14
was actually reflected back from him and When the Scout was reflected back
37:20
Some of the bone that was here to scalp had fallen off of it made it look larger than it really was
37:26
And I think that's the measurement that send the official autopsy
37:32
So when you saw the brain cuz you know, the conspiracy is it's not just one bullet the magic bullet
37:37
Whatever you want to call it and there's shots from the front not just from the back. It's not just Oswald
37:43
And by the way, no one's saying Oswald didn't shoot and he wasn't one of the shooters They're just saying that there may be somebody from the front as well that shot. There's six or seven shots
37:52
What's your thoughts on that? From what you saw if in fact Oswald did shoot from the depository the wound that was in the back?
38:01
That I saw Was not a fatal one the wound. I saw in the right temple and that couldn't have been Oswald. No
38:09
No, he couldn't it would have had to have come from from actually the right front
38:16
Look, I mean you're certain about that I'm yeah I saw the wound
38:22
Dr. Humes, and dr. Fink found the wound you examined this whole area of the back. Yes, sir
38:29
were there any other wounds except one at the base of the neck and One up in the spill. No sir that we're not about the
38:37
Head wound sir. There was only one it was the only one entrance wound in the head. Yes, sir
38:43
Now can you be absolutely certain that the wound you described as the entry wound was in fact that?
38:50
Yes, indeed we can so let me let me ask you this when you see everybody on TV
38:56
Every news everybody from TV Senate's from back at that moment when this happened you're there in the room
39:03
Every conversation go to dinner or lunch friend people Co-workers, how are you? Holding yourself back from saying they're lying. That's not the case. I guess it goes back to the same same credibility
39:16
You didn't think that would believe you've got anything right? How do I really don't want to be critical, but there are some really fine
39:25
Researchers out there a they've done a fantastic job and have dedicated
39:33
most of their life to them they don't readily accept the possibility that
39:39
that they could be incorrect everything that is new or
39:46
contradictory to their theories so forth is
39:53
Automatically Rejected I Would be I you know, I would be more than willing to
40:01
participate in a Objective legal inquiry where where you would be able to you know
40:10
Someone who's objected not and I'm not talking about a group of physicians
40:15
They were to review the evidence and that type of session I'm talking about a true
40:21
law-enforcement objective investigation Into a murder. Why do you think it hasn't been done yet, though?
40:29
Well, I'm not sure that it can be done. Why do you say that? I think the assassination of Oswald eliminated that possibility
40:38
and I think it was they wanted to keep And this is all my opinion. Okay. I'm not I have no inside information anything
40:47
I think they wanted they wanted to keep it within the realm of control
40:53
of the government, you know how sometimes when me and my wife go and let's just say a
41:00
Name comes up. That's her father's name and her father passed I say are you thinking about your dad or you know how you go some places and
41:08
For me something comes up about Iran and home Amy and the Shah. She asks. Hey, are you okay?
41:14
I'm sure JFK came up many times was there ever like babe. What do you think about this Jim you okay?
41:20
Was it all buried those moments or she just respected and says look if you don't want me to go there I'm not gonna go there. Well, actually
41:27
Since I started writing a book She's become more involved It's important to know you've been you guys been married for 55 years and three months
41:35
You got married August of 63, which was three years before the assassination So you're selling I see it was actually August before this
41:44
The August before tea sends annexed. Yeah, that's what I was referencing always. So 55 years. You've been married 55 years
41:49
You've been married, this is maybe going a little bit deeper Myself, and I'm just curious to know
41:56
What do you think about it? What what is your opinion on Humes yourself? Do you have an opinion on Humes?
42:02
I think in Humes and Boswell and Fink they were good people
42:08
but one of the things that that everybody seems to
42:13
To negate is the fact is that they were military They were in knew in the Navy. They were all career officers. They were getting close to their retirement
42:24
My feeling is that they were given a scenario and they were
42:29
Directed to actually support that through all the autopsy findings now. I
42:35
Don't think that set well with dr. Humes He really wasn't that kind of an individual, but he had no alternative
42:44
and that's one of the reasons I say that the autopsy a lot of the autopsy report is a spin on what we actually
42:52
saw the measurement wounds 13
42:57
Centimeters that's almost 5 inches. That's It's almost inch and a half over what?
43:04
What I actually saw now as a Cavett Cavett to that
43:09
I would like to say, you know, I didn't measure them but he did
43:14
Well, well what I think he used and then dr Boswell actually said and his his notes that it was 19 centimeters
43:24
and I think what they did was that the measurement was taken after the
43:29
scalp was retracted some of the bone it separates from the scalp and have fallen in so it had increased the size of the
43:37
Wound that was actually missing where just seemed to be bone was missing. Would they being ordered?
43:43
Oh, yes, I'm sure All the way from the top. Oh, I'm sure so then send. What's your opinion on Lyndon Johnson?
43:55
Not very well I figured that was the entire question I wanted to ask you today I was in San Antonio
44:02
and I lived in San Antonio and Lyndon Johnson and San Antonio are in, Texas
44:10
was I Guess you could say a good old boy Politically he was supported he's not someone that you even want to invite to dinner. You know, it's amazing
44:19
I'm reading a book right now. I just finished a good friend of mine wrote Robert Greene and he talks about
44:25
Lyndon Johnson, heavily. Yeah, and he talks about how Ambitious he was to the point where he was willing to
44:32
Do anything at all cost to make it to the next level in his career? And how coming up for him he would go against Hubert Humphrey, you know the Triple H Ebert Humphrey and
44:43
then he had this one mentor of his Russell that kind of calmed them down and he tried to keep his motivation in it and
44:49
When you read about him There's a little bit of animosity as towards JFK and amount of la viga because a lot of a lot of animosity because he was never a great orator and
44:57
He was never loved like JFK was loved and he was way more ambitious It was way more
45:03
important for him to become a president in JFK because in JFK's family his older brother was supposed to be President Joseph's right and you
45:10
know this because if you read history the older brother was a war he died as a pilot and his father was
45:16
Depressed for several years. And so when you read this the part as I get deeper into this a lot of things make sense
45:22
You know when when you when you tie it up a lot of things make sense Do you think a part of the investigation that is to be done?
45:30
Do you think there needs to be him involved in it as well or no? You're thinking more specifically from researchers because I think a part of this is also to see two things one
45:41
You know the six soldiers that saw the casket coming in early, right? You knew there was a couple a force a couple a fives and an e6 that later on became a lieutenant
45:50
So either they're lying, which why would they they're not be monetized? Why would they say that they didn't see it? And then the other side is?
45:58
You know, why wouldn't they tell the truth? And then the opposite side is what is the motive behind wanting to take the front bullet wounds out?
46:07
Would be the motive so would you say Lyndon Johnson would need to be a little bit investigated to see there was a motivation there a small I
46:13
I would say I Guess I can answer that with a question
46:18
Who were the two people? In the government it's a time
46:25
That benefited the most Him and Hoover
46:32
That's right, is that the right answer yeah, I Just got the chills all over my body
46:38
Yeah It goes deeper than that by the way, because you have to go like five steps prior to him and Hoover on why Hoover so the story goes back of
46:48
Kennedy's running I'm gonna go a whole different angle here and and and I'm curious to know where you're gonna say here. Kennedy's running
46:56
And Kennedy's having a hard time with Illinois, and there's a mayor Cook County
47:02
Who helps with the seven to eight thousand people? This is some conspiracy who were dead, but he helps and that mayor
47:10
Who one? One because if Chicago mob boss apparently helped him out and the mayor's son who has became a late mayor later on they asked them
47:19
Was a mob ever involved in helping you? So then you go to Chicago right and Chicago you go to
47:26
The mob that's trying to get JFK to become president after JFK's up winning He didn't need Illinois, but he ended up winning illinois's. Well he won
47:33
Single-handedly over Nixon, okay So then that happens and when that happened the mob always had Hoover
47:42
Not say that there's the mob There's no such thing as the mob and Hoover never said it Jed guven ever said it
47:48
but because the mob had some insider information on Hoover that Hoover didn't want to become public and I think you may know what some
47:54
Of those things may be at that time. It was a big deal. And so When this whole thing is taken place
48:00
Linden's extremely ambitious on what he wants to be fastest way to become a you know, they say the fastest way to become a millionaires to marry one and
48:09
The fastest way to become a president is to be a vice president who? Eliminates a president now again
48:15
This is all stuff that I read and I research and then you find out why he waited by the plane
48:21
Air Force One, you know why? Years later when Jackie did a recording that the tapes was earned they found and he looked at Jackie Kennedy's recording. Why did she say?
48:32
Lyndon was a very dangerous man. She always feared him because she always felt like he wanted to do something to to John
48:39
and so when you put all these pieces of puzzle together, and why when the
48:45
Commission came out. Is it the Warren Commission when it came out? Why would he say 75 years seal?
48:50
Why not 30 years because that's the typical number. Why would we do 75 year old enlisted would be dead?
48:56
So no one would be able to investigate these guys All these things are little bit too much for someone to say there's something here
49:03
we're dealing with you know, and you know even after the House Select Committee my
49:09
deposition and Paul's deposition was sealed again for another 50 years and
49:18
It was only released because of the record review board, there's so much involved in this and
49:26
one of the things that I've tried not to do is to speculate now at the end of the book I a
49:35
Little bit I do. Yeah, and and you know, I've had people say well, you know, and and
49:44
and I guess I have to defend I Guess I have to defend the doctors if you were looking at a retirement and you had a family
49:56
You'd spend all your life you know in one organization one company or something of that nature and
50:05
something came in threaten your retirement and your pension and
50:11
even Possibility of
50:16
Jail time and you were told well, you really don't have to lie about it, but you have to adjust it
50:23
What you know what you know to fit this yeah, well, you told that I was and I was just I mean I was too low on the
50:34
totem poles Howard Hughes Boswell and they may have been because a retirement so they had to make the right decisions for their families because
50:43
The 25-30 years is on the line. Sure I mean they were they were all I think they were thirty-year people and third year people. You know, what happens with them?
50:51
You know what? I wouldn't mind doing why don't you and I take a break and why don't we go to the Dealey Plaza and kind of see that and
50:58
Then come back and finish the interview if you don't mind because it's based on what we're talking about here I'd like to see what you think. The other angle would be if they was shot
51:06
Where would are we coming from? If you don't mind taking a break and going to the Dealey Plaza?
51:31
So that's the X right there So Jim if that's the eggs and the shot from Oswald came from there and you're looking at the brain
51:40
We would have to assume the other shot that you saw in the front would come from where if we're standing there probably
51:47
Right there somewhere around there because actually the shot was in the temple
51:52
Exited here. Temple hit the temple of God, right a little bit above and in front of the year right in the hairline
51:58
That's that's was the first And then it exited back here and that's why he kind of shook back and he won back
52:05
yeah, and say the thing about it, is that the wound that they Mentioned in the autopsy and so forth in the back of the head is missing
52:13
I never saw that you never saw that no I should have seen him because I handle the body for the x-ray actually placed
52:23
The film cassettes for Custer what is this - for your own level of curiosity being here. Does it do anything for you? Not really?
52:34
I I mean I always wanted to come down It's it's a lot smaller than I I see. Oh, yeah, that's right. It's a place now people all over the world
52:44
Come here to see the sex There's a throat wound probably with it come from right over the bridge
52:50
Probably right right off of the railroad Or it could have come from
52:56
Individuals see where those people are standing this group or the ones in the back. Yes
53:01
To where the guy is to begin? It could have come from there in one of the photographs in the book the neck wound
53:08
You can see in the right side of the neck one where there's a ragged area
53:13
top If you look closely you'll also see that there is a a
53:19
Ridge or tunnel under the skin that goes up with so what was that the are you saying? That's another bullet
53:25
I think that's probably the one that dr. Perry described I think it was removed because see the one in the back never penetrated the pleural cavity and
53:36
Humans could actually probe it with his little finger, but there was no room. There was no boy later
53:41
You said he went in what a an inch an inch and a half with his finger? Little finger with his middle with his pinkie was a little bit
53:49
yeah, huge that huge mean but he did it actually in never penetrated the
53:54
chest cavity AutoCAD apparently did make a bruise on the wrong because hummin on the
54:00
Backside of the middle lobe of the right long just to call the middle lobe
54:05
On the first load there was kind of a reddish spot there that we saw they moved it up to the top of the line
54:13
he also moves the wound in the back from the Area where it was to the neck wound and all of that was the support to single Bullet theory
54:22
So let me ask you. Can you put a number two how many? Bullets, you think there was shot or know just what you saw with the brain
54:29
You wouldn't be able to know that tell you when I left the mortgage Like I saw at least two wounds that I thought that you were one
54:37
I wasn't aware of the neck wound because we had been told it was a it was an emergency trach and believe it alone
54:44
got it, and That was those were there only two wounds that's all I never saw the supposedly entry wound in the back of the head and
54:53
In reality if there had been an entry wound They're where they located it would have been within the big wound in the back of the head where all the stuff was missing
55:02
it would have had to have been either on the margin of it or whatever and I Didn't see that and then the pictures of the face show. Honestly, I believe that was that was government in this information
55:13
It's inconceivable for me that that Fox would have had possession world
55:19
They've been so tight on everything else. Everything's been just totally Locked away in all of the real evidence that was given to Robert Kennedy, and apparently he disposed of it
55:30
Yeah, there's just too many questions. Well, so you're saying there's nothing really can happen for there to be an open investigation now, right?
55:37
I don't think that the government will allow it because they there's so much stuff that they still have sequestered
55:44
they won't release and what we were hoping Trump wouldn't be involved in all of this to the point and he was released it but
55:51
And he did he released a lot of it But the thing about it is it wasn't submitted so it wasn't significant stuff. It was not it
56:00
Had nothing to do really with the autopsy what's the biggest worry with it as though what is the worry and the concern that if
56:07
Comes out that it was an inside job It's going to show the rest of the world a level of instability, you know a level of unstable government internally
56:15
I don't think that that's the case, you know, when the founding fathers established the country. They didn't establish the House of Lords
56:24
Now we have a House of Lords, which is Congress, so I think it's it's a
56:31
see why I Cya, you mean Yeah, neither cosa, I believe that. Yeah, I believe it to
56:38
investigate a Attorney General or Assistant Attorney General, they subpoena me. He just ignores it
56:45
How is that possible without repercussions of course Johnson said it was because the people couldn't handle the right information
56:51
Are those what really happened? I think it's to go further, but that's again - that's my
56:59
That's my take on that Speculation of course and which you notice with him? He was loved around the world, you know
57:05
a lot of Countries around the world started museums on behalf of his name because of the level of admiration that for us
57:11
I think that's probably why there's such a high level of wanting to know exactly what happened. What was the motivation behind it?
57:17
well I think that he was one of the first people in a long series of presidents that actually was
57:25
Beginning to look at the people as people power of who's in charge. Where the Republican Democrat?
57:31
Yep army, or you yep? No, and that's that's all is I saw politics in this country as we go power
57:38
They buy them they buy it's easy to buy in nowadays It's a money game and you wonder you you go and see who can be bought and who can't be bought and you know
57:45
The voters sitting there saying I like this guy, but it's not as much as you like in the voter there's too much of that like you said corporations are coming in and are able to buy votes and
57:54
Whether they want to do something that has to do with regulation or making it difficult for their competitors to do something
58:00
They're not looking at the political side. They're looking at more regulations that's going to hurt competition Let me ask you did you ever did you spend a lot of time study in Oswald or not?
58:07
Really his background, you know him wanting to be a Russian citizen and all that stuff or no I really don't know, you know people ask you do you do I think he he killed Kennedy? Yeah
58:18
well That's actually not a climbing to stay off question Because if he's shot at Kennedy and he shot from behind Kennedy
58:25
Then what he did he was he was apparently responsible for the back room, which was hospital and would not have been available
58:31
You're certain of that that it wouldn't been fatal, you know And you saw that back wound? Yeah, what would have been worst case with that?
58:38
They would have done surgery and he would have recovered. Oh no, I they probably would have just
58:43
Removed the bullet and closed it I mean, it wasn't destructive in any sense that it hit a vital organ or it even broke a rib the whole
58:54
Information the whole report that are out there The autopsy report that's that point they don't make sense from a medical standpoint from an anatomical standpoint
59:04
They just don't make sense. It's almost like they've been Manipulated or spun? The real information is to lead someone to
59:13
Conclusion is not the truth. Is there anybody out there that is
59:19
Coming from the right place morals values character integrity that is
59:25
Extremely motivated to one investigate this and want to do something about is there someone you know That's out there wanted to get deeper in this topic or now if this is ever going to have a legal
59:34
solution and so forth it's going to have to come through the government and
59:39
Because they're the only one who can release the evidence what evidence is still there and see we still don't know, you know
59:47
I'm not allowed to see photographs that I was there when it that's amazing that amazes me I'm not allowed to see the x-rays that I took pardon
59:54
How is that even possible that amazes me or any of those guys the enlisted guys? Even Dennis or O'Connor or any of them still in contact with you. Are they still around?
1:00:05
Humes Boswell or any of them still around and that's what Lyndon wanted because he knew once everybody was gone
1:00:11
There's nothing that's gonna come back Trent Wow. That's right. And what year was the fifty years put on you? Oh, it was seventy-five
1:00:19
Seventy-five to 20 25 that's amazing. And by the way, they measured it they said you know is this
1:00:25
One of the things about Oswald is how long the distance was they said they brought 12 marksmen to test shooting it
1:00:33
While a target is movement 12 out of 12, they all hit the target. So it said it's not a target that
1:00:39
really needs somehow to be a You know sniper to be able to hit it it wasn't that difficult of a target to hit but also of himself is an interesting
1:00:46
Character and Ruby died as well two years later so he's not even around for some other to be investigate and say what do you connected to as a local nightclub owner or a
1:00:53
Restaurant owner. Well, you know my opinion if Oswald had lived they would have had
1:01:00
If the administration did reach out you to want to go deeper on this would there be an interest on on your line or no?
1:01:06
Sure, but I only have the information that I have. There's always an interest with this So maybe if the right person sees this message, they're able to reach out and billions of people
1:01:14
This is not millions billions that people would like to know what happened here There's too many unknowns that are not fully answered yet. And there's too many signs from credible sources that makes you question things
1:01:24
Well, I agree. Also, I'd like to know Who what where and why I don't think in my lifetime I'll ever know but it would be you know
1:01:33
It'll be something I really would like. Well, you never know You never know what happens that the part about you is from me on
1:01:39
Why I wanted to do this because bill contacted me says Pat, you know Let's try to see if we can do something with you and Jim
1:01:45
I'm in a business of reading people because that's what I do for a living I run a business I'm supposed to see who I'm doing business with and what I do for a living. There's nothing about you with a
1:01:54
motive to monetize and use this as a platform to make a multi-million dollar contract book any that you come across as somebody that you're just trying to get to the bottom of it and
1:02:05
Investigate it because there's some unknowns and 50-plus years later you've agreed to kind of talk about it a little bit more than before and so I
1:02:12
Don't I think there's something there the purpose of the book is to get the information out there, you know I guess it has to do with my own mortality
1:02:19
It's just absolutely unconscionable That what's being taught in schools
1:02:25
now It's not true, but it's accepted as part of history. Someone once said that history is written by the winner, and we definitely lost
1:02:33
Here the other one whoever controls the present controls the past some see whoever controls the present controls the future of a history
1:02:39
It says a lot Well, this was great to kind of see the perspective of something was to happen Which angle would have come from without being able to stand out there?
1:02:48
It would be Impossible, but I can I can tell you the angle from the wound in the back. It actually went down at about
1:02:58
30 45 degree Angles like oh like abyss. Yeah from the front. No, what's he like this one?
1:03:05
He got shot or was he straight with because he was he was going like this and then he got shaky He got shot first in the throat. That's what his hands came up, but he did was hand came up
1:03:17
He went down like this and then he went back like this and this
1:03:22
And you can see the tissue stuff And people say oh well half his brain was blown out. They don't understand that a brain
1:03:32
That's a very delicate type see once it's protected by them in energy even
1:03:39
in the skull there would have been a lot of Nicola fication a lot of liquid there they were
1:03:47
Cause of the pressure of the bullet as the bullet energy created personal opinion
1:03:53
And he fractured all of the sides and then we're excellent it blew the
1:04:00
loan out but as it passed through and created pressure
1:04:07
Seen demonstration completely shooting watermelon. Yes. Yes. We just have we just shot that's interesting
1:04:13
we were we were at a place called drive tanks two weeks ago and I was on a tank when you're shooting stuff up and
1:04:20
I was shooting at watermelons and a Few pumpkins and I shot the pumpkin and the front is just a hole but the back is a blast right and the gentleman comes
1:04:32
Up and he says the best things and says this the front this is the back this the front this tabac He says if you want to know exactly what this means it's what happened with JFK the same exact rhinology
1:04:43
So look if you're somebody who follows history, I'm sure you were fascinated by what we just saw here at the
1:04:48
Dealey Plaza, I am myself as somebody who was in the military, but you know what I'd like to do if you don't mind
1:04:55
Jim is obviously we're at the end here and the book that you wrote would William Law at the cold-shoulder of history
1:05:01
why don't you take a Minute and tell us a little bit about what I'm going to get as a read if I read this book
1:05:06
I think you'll get a different perspective on the whole JFK assassination, these are my memories of what I actually participated in concerning the brain. Dr
1:05:17
Boswell and I did did the Body proper and what I observed from? Dr. Humes and and
1:05:26
Dr. Fink's examination of the head. We actually took three sets of x-rays I Actually helped Gerald Custer who was the x-ray tech placed the cassettes and moved the body and so forth for the first set of x-rays
1:05:40
He took him and when he came back, he brought an assistant with him I think it'll it'll give the reader some thought but it also is going to
1:05:52
Require the reader to make some judgments on its own. It's gonna make you go and say
1:05:57
Really? Let me go look it up. No way and let me go google it which I think it's great
1:06:02
But that's you saying that's a great thing Yeah, that's the purpose and I think that book does that if you're interested in that topic you your parents your kids anybody?
1:06:10
I'll go get the book gifted for somebody click on the link below to go buy the book and If you haven't watched the interview, I did with Clint Hill. It was an interview done about two years ago
1:06:21
So click on a link over here. Are we gonna put the link for the interviews while down here a Clint Hill?
1:06:26
I suggest you go watch that as well with that being said Jim. Thank you so much for coming out truly Thank you for your time and thanks
1:06:31
Thank you for your courage for wanting to open up and tell the story and as well as your service

#Jim Jenkins #Patrick Bet David #JFK Assassination