Repentance, Regeneration, Discipleship Independent Baptist Debate: Tommy McMurtry & Thomas Ross, 1/2

On January 1, 2025, Tommy McMurtry and Thomas Ross held a discussion or a debate in which seven questions were examined:

1.) Does the Old Testament teach that the lost must turn from their sins to be saved?
2.) Does the New Testament teach that the lost must turn from their sins to be saved?
3.) Does one become a disciple at the moment of the new birth, or at some point afterwards?
4.) How does regeneration change someone?
5.) Can people be born again without calling on the Lord / saying the “sinner’s prayer”?
6.) Did Christ suffer in hell after His death on the cross?
7.) How do our beliefs on the issues above impact how we seek to fulfill the Great Commission?

This video is part 1 of 2 of their debate. Please also watch part 2 of 2 on the FaithSaves website, the KJB1611 YouTube, or the KJBIBLE1611 Rumble channel.

Tommy McMurtry represents churches that classify themselves as independent, fundamental Baptists but, on gospel-related issues, stand in continuity with Jack Hyles, Hyles-Anderson College, and the New IFB movement spearheaded by Steven Anderson. Mr. McMurtry repudiates the moral failures and man-centeredness of Steven Anderson and Jack Hyles. However, McMurtry states: "when it came to the doctrines associated with new IFB ... I am new IFB ... I align with ... Pastor Anderson ... on so many things ... I want to see the good things that he has stood for continue ... the good things that he has taught ... he's given the truth about repentance ... Jack Hyles ... typically ... the best church ... [in] a city .... is probably going to be a Hyles Anderson graduate ... Hyles stood for a lot of very good things." (What has happened to the NIFB? Tommy McMurtry & Matt Furse | Episode 19, ReDiscover Studios, 10/29/2024, 48, 94-104 min).

Thomas Ross stands for the historic Baptist faith as contained in Scripture, classic Baptist confessions, and as defended by independent Baptist churches, colleges, and seminaries unaffiliated with Jack Hyles and Steven Anderson, what might be called the "old IFB" or independent, fundamental Baptist movement. Ross argued that Jack Hyles introduced corruption into Baptist churches that was made even worse by Steven Anderson and the "new IFB"; Baptist churches should return to the theological position on the gospel and evangelism that they believed and practiced before they suffered the detrimental influences of Hyles and Anderson.

Tommy McMurtry pastors the Liberty Baptist Church of Rock Falls, IL. Thomas Ross is helping plant the Grace and Truth Baptist Church in San Francisco, CA under the authority of Victory Baptist Church of Oshkosh, WI and teaching seminary classes.

Mr. McMurtry denies that the lost must turn from their sins to be saved in either the Old or the New Testament; only unbelief must be repented of. Thomas Ross believes that Christians today should warn the lost: "Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions" (Ezekiel 18:30), for they will be damned unless they repent of their sinful deeds (Revelation 2:22).

McMurtry argued that discipleship is a status some believers choose to enter into after they are born again. Ross argued that all true believers are disciples. Someone who does not deny himself and take up the cross, with the result of following Christ, will lose his soul in hell (Mark 8:34-36).

McMurtry argued that in regeneration a Christian receives a sinless spirit, while his body or flesh is unchanged, and his soul can move between the sinless spirit and the unchanged body. Ross argued that regeneration or the new birth affects the entire person-the "man," not 1/3 of the man, is born again (John 3:3). Sin's dominion is shattered in the entire human person, but no portion of the regenerate man is unaffected by sin.

McMurtry contends that people always say the sinner's prayer when they are born again, although some may say it silently. Ross argues that nobody ever has been or will be justified because he has said the sinner's prayer-justification is by faith alone, and the sinner's prayer is a 20th century corruption of older Biblical and Baptist evangelism not found in the Old or New Testaments, and not, specifically, taught in Revelation 3:20 or Romans 10:9-13. Calling on the Lord is a mark of someone who is already born again.

McMurtry argued that Jesus Christ suffered in hell after He died. Ross argued that Baptists have historically viewed such an affirmation as blasphemy and heresy. The immaterial portion of the human nature of Jesus Christ, after the Lord completed His suffering on the cross, went immediately into the presence of His Father, while His body was in the grave for three days.

McMurtry evangelizes like many Hyles-Anderson College graduates and those affiliated with the New IFB of Steven Anderson. Thomas Ross evangelizes the way Baptists did from the Reformation era through the mid-twentieth century and the way the first-century Christians and Christians in the ancient and medieval period evangelized.