Billy Bush: The Infamous Trump Tape, Secrets of Corporate Media, & Megyn Kelly v. Harvey Weinstein

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Eight years ago NBC News secretly colluded with the Washington Post to derail Donald Trump’s candidacy. Billy Bush was there and tells the story for the first time.
Chapters

7 chapters in this episode
Why Corporate Media Management Is So Corrupt
00:00:00
1. Why Corporate Media Management Is So Corrupt
Megyn Kelly vs. Harvey Weinstein
00:04:57
2. Megyn Kelly vs. Harvey Weinstein
What Al Roker Is Really Like
00:09:58
3. What Al Roker Is Really Like
Billy Bush’s Rise in Media
00:12:33
4. Billy Bush’s Rise in Media
The Infamous Trump Tape That Got Billy Fired
00:24:40
5. The Infamous Trump Tape That Got Billy Fired
The Beginning of Trump Derangement Syndrome
00:50:50
6. The Beginning of Trump Derangement Syndrome
How NBC Tried to Destroy Billy Bush
01:01:02
7. How NBC Tried to Destroy Billy Bush
Transcript

Tucker [00:00:00] When you realized I mean, you obviously learned the hard way. I did, too. But the people who run the business are just not good people. And there are some friendly people there, some certainly some smart people. There are some people who are good people. But in general, I worked at three different TV networks full time and then two others part time. And I just found as a rule management, they just weren't people you would make the godparents to…

Billy Bush [00:00:25] People are afraid. I just think it's like is that what it is? Well certainly linear television you know, now the big companies, I think people are terrified. You know, you see management, they don't know where they're going to be the next day. So leadership is is hard to find and and gutsy leadership. You look back at the, you know, the days of great sitcom television. You look at, you know, Brandon Tartikoff and Grant Tinker and some of these great legends that said, you know what? We're going to stick with this Seinfeld bomb. It seems that the ratings are terrible, but. And we're just that, you know, as your audience is shrinking and the gains are shrinking, people are just terrified. They're looking over their shoulder. They're wondering, you know, am I the next to get fired? So.

Tucker [00:01:37] I mean, that's absolutely right for that. Seinfeld was a bomb at first.

Billy Bush [00:01:40] It was not doing well.

Tucker [00:01:42] I totally forgot about that.

Billy Bush [00:01:43] Imagine someone pulling that off the air. They would do it now. It didn't work after two episodes. Yeah, that's right. So this didn't work after a year or two years.

Tucker [00:01:50] I think. No, it's incredible right there. The runway, though, because they were making so much money and she was making money in every category then.

Billy Bush [00:01:57] And it had some and it had some good lead in and all that stuff. And then they stuck with it. And now it's, you know, makes more money and reruns still than most original shows.

Tucker [00:02:08] That's incredible. Yeah. You start you've been in TV for like 30 years or in broadcasting, Certainly for 30 years. Yeah. I still think, though, even when the business was making a ton of money, it was a dishonest business and that's the way it felt to me anyway when I started at CNN.

Billy Bush [00:02:24] Yeah, I mean, it's, you know, I look at all the places I've been. It's. I think of what I think of. I think of the moral high ground. Like it doesn't exist. What is it, really? People grappling for the moral high ground. Anyone who gets fired based upon, you know, for moral purposes, they try to use the morality clause, which every talent has in their contract, the morality clause they lunge for. This coming from people who don't have a leg to stand on when.

Billy Bush [00:02:53] It comes to that. It's like it's just a big laugh. Everyone, you know, the fighters are all completely morally compromised.

Tucker [00:03:06] So that's I mean.

Billy Bush [00:03:08] I would just look at it said, let's.

Billy Bush [00:03:10] All look at each other for saying we really. Do any of us belong standing on this. This is all about game. Okay, Who's up? Who's down.

Tucker [00:03:17] Then what? You know, I. Of course I know what you're talking about. And I think that from I mean, obviously long out of it. But I think of that from afar when I see these people getting all huffy about this or that moral transgression. And I'm like, yes, I can, you know, you slept with my intern, you killed your own intern or whatever, you know what I mean?

Billy Bush [00:03:36] Let's call the whole thing off. No, that's.

Tucker [00:03:38] Right. But why? I'm just like general question. But why? Why not just call you in and say, you know, this isn't working for us financially? Why do they feel the need to dress it up? Not not I'm not speaking specifically of you, but it's always like.

Billy Bush [00:03:54] Well, that was the Megyn Kelly situation, right? I mean, I love Meghan. Why not call her in and. Say we gave you way too big a budget, this guy and and the ratings aren't there. And also, you're doing something different. Meghan I love Meghan. She's a friend. She was a ferocious. Aunt that died, you know, like, here's the fresh muffins, everybody. And, you know, it just all of a sudden it's like, well, it's like Martha Stewart years ago had an a version of The Apprentice after Donald Trump had The Apprentice, they gave one to Martha. They thought that would be great. But Martha had a different idea. Her idea was, I'm going to write sweet handwritten notes on pink stationery. I'm sorry. We have to let you go. No, that's not the Martha we want Martha. We want the Martha we love is cold and tough and a nut cutter and not cutter. You're out of here, bitch. Your God. That's the Martha. We want it. So you know this is it happens that you have this day.

Billy Bush [00:04:54] I guess you.

Billy Bush [00:04:55] Know that's such.

Tucker [00:04:56] A great example though so they they hire Meghan she's you know got a kind.

Billy Bush [00:05:01] Of hired by the same man that fired me. And instead of saying, hey, the ratings don't match.

Billy Bush [00:05:08] The $40 million a year budget or whatever it is.

Billy Bush [00:05:12] They fire Meghan for asking a question about when blackface. Fell out of vogue or was not acceptable at all for Halloween and things. I mean, remember, think of all the late night comics who are working today that used to regularly do blackface on their shows.

Billy Bush [00:05:31] Okay.

Billy Bush [00:05:33] And there was a time where if a girl dressed up as Diana Ross, it was like she legitimately loved Diana Ross. But then, you know, it it she all Meghan did was ask the question when.

Billy Bush [00:05:47] Give me a year or a period when.

Billy Bush [00:05:49] That became.

Billy Bush [00:05:52] Absolutely unacceptable to the point that your career and everything will be taken through.

Tucker [00:05:56] Asking that was the equivalent of like lynching a bunch of people and.

Billy Bush [00:05:59] Yeah, and they trucked out the, you know, different people from the.

Billy Bush [00:06:02] Network and, you know, Al Roker and Craig Melvin came out and, and they did a show and they talked about how horrible it was. And and so they sent Megyn on her way. What Megyn did, I think, is what you did. And said, Absolutely not. You'll pay me out in in full. My contract will be paid. And I think Meghan got all 60 some million dollars or whatever it was, to then go off and build what she's built, which is pretty awesome.

Tucker [00:06:30] She's tough, tough on. She's tough. And she got tougher going through that. And I think like a lot of people I've known, you either become a better person or a worse person. And she became, I think, a better person. A wonderful person. One of my favorite people, actually. So I think it was, you know, a huge victory for her on every level. I was proud of her.

Billy Bush [00:06:50] She didn't do anything wrong. But ask a question. I know. She never said we should be allowed to do blackface again. She didn't say that. Yeah. She said, When was that? All she did was raise the question. Now, remember, this is also retribution. The man that was the chairman of NBC News at the time who fired her. She had recently put out. You know, a. An email calling him a liar who was to the staff Andy Lack. She called Andy Lack a.

Billy Bush [00:07:18] Liar because you know, she said, wait a minute, we have someone who has corroborated, you know, Rose McGowan, the actress we have, who corroborated that you know, this in the MeToo movement with in this whole Weinstein case.

Tucker [00:07:33] So just to refresh, people don't recall the allegation was and I think it was true that NBC had the goods in Harvey Weinstein, that he was behaving in an abusive way, in a legit, abusive way toward women. Yeah.

Billy Bush [00:07:46] That they are always doing his.

Tucker [00:07:47] Exactly. Yeah. And they sat on it.

Billy Bush [00:07:51] And Ronan alleges that they sat on it and said, you know, you don't have enough you don't have anyone is on camera and in name. And Megyn said, wait a minute. Yeah. Rose McGowan in camera on camera in name. She's we've got a name. She'll go and they. I guess, overlook that and said or refuse to acknowledge it. And so but the idea was that, you know. The guy the guy who was president of NBC News at the time is is no Oppenheim. And he's a scriptwriter. He's really a script writer. And he's so, you know. Does he want to write scripts for, Harvey? Who knows? But there's that relationship. And Harvey, you know, was never afraid to pick up the phone. I've had Harvey Weinstein call me.

Billy Bush [00:08:38] This is a great film. You should have this on your show on Access Hollywood.

Billy Bush [00:08:42] When I was the host. You know, hammering me to have a he was a, you know, and an animal.

Tucker [00:08:48] So he it seems very likely that he was applying pressure to executives at NBC, including Noah Oppenheim. Yeah, it seems like you have.

Billy Bush [00:08:57] The appropriate he would apply pressure on anyone if his if little Billy Bush over at Access.

Billy Bush [00:09:02] Hollywood is getting pressure, then, you know, The Today Show is.

Tucker [00:09:04] For sure. So Meghan pipes up and says, actually, Andy Lack her boss. What you're saying is not quite right. And they do say we got to kill this woman.

Billy Bush [00:09:14] Yeah. So it's retribution. Clean and simple.

Billy Bush [00:09:18] Retribution. And I'm sure Megyn lawyer, Brian Friedman, who's one of the best, you know, lawyers in this game, turned and said, no, you're not going to just.

Tucker [00:09:27] Yeah.

Billy Bush [00:09:50] So if she was she was crowing about that. And I have to say, I smiled. I'm in the comments section. If you look down, by the way, where to go, girl?

Tucker [00:09:58] I love it. So why? And I had forgotten this part of it. Al Roker and Craig Melvin are two hosts on NBC, both black and they torpedoed Meghan.

Billy Bush [00:10:10] Look, they play ball or not, right? I mean, they were asked to appear and talk about, you know, the severity of it. And and this is when you're in a scene of it, the severity of blackface and, you know, appropriation.

Billy Bush [00:10:26] And all these things are offered to you, right? I mean, play ball with the big machine or maybe you're out next to I will say this, Craig Melvin is a is a really good guy.

Billy Bush [00:10:40] I learned a lot when I for the two months that I was at the Today show, he had the office next to mine. And we would call in response saying, I like the guy so much, I would you know, I would go.

Billy Bush [00:10:51] It's a beautiful morning. And then he would finish the lyric. And he was just a charmingly lovely guy. Roker, on the other hand, is a bit vindictive. He's the he's he's not jovial.

Tucker [00:11:04] He's so because you do think fat people are jovial just by definition, almost. Well, I mean, I always assume that. Do you?

Billy Bush [00:11:15] Well.

Tucker [00:11:17] Like Santa Claus.

Billy Bush [00:11:17] Kind of. Yeah, you're supposed to be. Yeah. Maybe that makes you mad. But although Al got.

Billy Bush [00:11:23] Himself in shape, however, he did it, and. And.

Tucker [00:11:26] I haven't seen. I don't have a TV.

Billy Bush [00:11:27] Well, he's.

Billy Bush [00:11:32] Listen. When I was at.

Billy Bush [00:11:34] The Today Show and I just got there. A producer of mine called me and said.

Billy Bush [00:11:39] Hey, Al Roker just liked a. Tweet. From someone calling you a white splaining racist.

Billy Bush [00:11:50] I said.

Billy Bush [00:11:50] What? So I looked and said, I'm on the air with him every day.

Billy Bush [00:11:54] You got to be kidding me. So I went to my boss, the head of NBC, the head of the Today show, Noah Oppenheim, and I said, Hey, dude, I can't sit on the air with someone who's going to be liking tweets that call me names that are insane than anything of the kind of know what that even means. Like, what are you talking about? Suzette. My God. I'm so sorry. And you had to go talk to him.

Tucker [00:12:17] I'll talk.

Billy Bush [00:12:17] To him. But you could file him under the group of people who did not want me there. Right. So there's a group that didn't. And, you know, Matt Lauer.

Tucker [00:12:25] Ever say, I think you're a racist? No. To your face.

Billy Bush [00:12:29] Hey, man, how are you? But like, this thing. And but I could feel like when I got to the Today show, there was definitely.

Tucker [00:12:38] Where have you been?

Billy Bush [00:12:39] Just getting Access Hollywood for 15 years. Okay.

Tucker [00:12:43] In L.A..

Billy Bush [00:12:44] Let me give you the brief of how.

Billy Bush [00:12:45] I got to the Today Show. Yeah.

Billy Bush [00:12:48] I built.

Billy Bush [00:12:49] Some leverage. I made I got a relationship with the woman who was the head of talent for ABC News, Good Morning America.

Tucker [00:12:57] Who was that?

Billy Bush [00:12:57] And it was Barbara Fajita. She ended up offering me a job. Ben Sherwood was running ABC News at the time. They offered me a job for Good Morning America to leave Access Hollywood and become like a national correspondent, but rotating in in the studio and get your shot basically.

Tucker [00:13:18] Beginning back up even more. How did you end up on Access Hollywood?

Billy Bush [00:13:21] I was I did something local. I did some local feature reports back at WNYC in New York after doing radio for six years, started in radio in New Hampshire, of all places, right out of college. Then I went to DC and my own morning show there for five years. Like a, you know, a morning zoo type of morning show. And then I did this. What's your deal? We'd like to have you. We're looking for an East Coast.

Billy Bush [00:14:04] Correspondent for our show, Access Hollywood. You're going to do red carpets and meet all kinds of movie stars. Okay. Sounds good to me. So that I started doing that at the end of 2001. And, you know, moved to the Today show in 2016 and was there for 15 years...

Tucker [00:14:23] What was that like?

Billy Bush [00:14:25] I mean, it was really fun. In the beginning, it was just awesome. You know, back when Must See TV was on Thursday night. So, you know, like, you know, the ratings were big. There was car.

Billy Bush [00:14:35] Service. It was it was super fun. I got to do all these events and I sort of move my way up. And in 2004.

Billy Bush [00:14:41] And they moved me to Los Angeles to become the host of it. And I'm out there, you know, until I said, God. Am I going to die doing this? Like I got to change it up. So I put this like plan into effect to make some inroads.

Tucker [00:14:57] But you could have stayed forever, right?

Billy Bush [00:14:58] I could have stayed forever. Yeah. But I really wanted to get. Two, like a Regis Philbin style, you know, morning show. Yeah. Fun, warm. And that was when I made the move to Good Morning America. Then NBC said, wait a minute. Whoa. Leverage is that thing they know when you have it or you don't. That's right. I knew I had it. They knew I was moving. And so they said, okay, we'll give you the 9:00 hour, the Today Show. It's yours. Come on in.

Tucker [00:15:25] When was that?

Billy Bush [00:15:27] And that was 2000. So I made the move. You know, my first day on the air, The Today show was at the Rio Olympics. Yeah. Yeah.

Tucker [00:15:38] In Brazil in the summer of 16.

Billy Bush [00:15:40] In the summer of 16. And my last day was October 7th. I.

Tucker [00:15:46] Am so sorry to laugh. Yeah.

Billy Bush [00:15:48] Exactly. Two months. In the.

Tucker [00:15:50] Interest of honesty, we went to high school together and dated Sister, so we've known each other.

Billy Bush [00:15:53] For a while. We should get into that. We don't need to hear that.

Tucker [00:15:55] But I'm just saying.

Billy Bush [00:15:56] I'm your wife's younger sister. My first love.

Tucker [00:16:00] Yes. And so I. Obviously I was watching all this carefully as it unfolded. I just I felt phony not saying that. So you're living in L.A.? Wife and three kids. You plan to move them back to the East Coast? You go to Rio? Big deal. It's the Olympics. NBC has the Olympics. It's. This is how they're going to roll you out. Yeah, right. Heck of a rollout.

Billy Bush [00:16:26] It's always exactly up. The whole thing.

Tucker [00:16:28] Is the craziest viewership of the cycle. Yeah. Yeah. And you get to Rio. I'll never forget this. And you got basically under, like, right away. The knives came out for you on staff right away. What happened?

Billy Bush [00:16:46] Well, remember the Ryan Lochte story?

Billy Bush [00:16:48] The Ryan Lochte story broke. It was big. Ryan Lochte was held at gunpoint. Overnight, they went after after swimming competitions. He and some other swimmers went out, got drunk, partied, and then they were at a gas station in Rio and they were held at gunpoint. Anyway, when we wake up this morning, the morning after this, read it. I'm like, my gosh, the story about Ryan Lochte two hours later, somehow I run into Ryan Lochte and he's just bumbling down the street with a thud.

Billy Bush [00:17:17] With vodka breath, just like just in this. But he's by himself and just bumbling. And I've got an iPhone.

Billy Bush [00:17:23] On me and I'm like. This is a huge story.

Tucker [00:17:26] Walking down the street and one of.

Billy Bush [00:17:27] Our major athletes held at gunpoint in a foreign country at the Olympics. This is this is massive. I only have is this.

Billy Bush [00:17:35] So I give to my co-host and friend who's with me. I said, roll this bloody camera and I pull him over and I.

Billy Bush [00:17:42] Roll the camera. I have a minute and 42 seconds still on here.

Billy Bush [00:17:45] It's all I got before the Olympic Committee. U.S. Olympic Committee representatives saw me.

Billy Bush [00:17:51] Across the street talking to Ryan Lochte on an iPhone and they book over to stop me. But I get him to tell me what happened.

Tucker [00:17:59] Amazing.

Billy Bush [00:18:00] And I'm like, wow. Because the second week of the Olympics is always a little slow. You got swimming and you got gymnastics and all the big things in the first week, and it's only track and field.

Tucker [00:18:10] It's like pole.

Billy Bush [00:18:11] Vault and it's like you need something else. Like a storyline would be great.

Billy Bush [00:18:14] All of a sudden we have Olympic athletes at gunpoint. This is incredible. And Lochte, he tells me this story and I go on and well, it becomes something else. I mean, first of all, Al Roker goes crazy on me. And he's like, no, this American apologist stuff begins.

Billy Bush [00:18:29] And the narrative is.

Tucker [00:18:31] What I don't understand. So this seems like a legit how.

Billy Bush [00:18:33] Could Ryan Lochte he do this is a terrible, a terrible American with these you know, this this entitled American bravado, you know, and brands because he was apparently he had torn down a poster outside of the bathroom at this gas station. And and they and all these terrible things that they were doing now they were held at gunpoint by. Terrible people. And.

Billy Bush [00:18:58] I said, wait a minute, We don't know that.

Tucker [00:19:00] This is live on the air.

Billy Bush [00:19:01] Yeah, live on the air. I said, wait a minute.

Billy Bush [00:19:02] We don't know that. All we're getting is that Ryan Lochte, he did all these terrible things.

Billy Bush [00:19:06] From the minister of information of the Rio Police, not known to be the least corrupt police organization in the world. Hello. So I said, hang on for a second. Why would we take that? It's like taking the minister of. You know you know the of in Gaza the making the minister. You get his statistics you don't someone who's obviously biased. So I said, okay, just calm down. We don't know anything about what these guys did.

Billy Bush [00:19:38] In the end, when everything came out, Ryan Lochte, he didn't lie about anything. But one thing he said he was sitting at gunpoint. He was actually at gunpoint. That's it. So, in other words, everything he said was totally true. And the entire US media organization led by NBC workers were on the ground, totally savage This guy, Ryan Savage them How a horrible American entitled.

Billy Bush [00:20:03] You know, this just apologist attitude has come.

Billy Bush [00:20:07] You know, to to think he can do anything he wants.

Tucker [00:20:09] Victim of a violent crime.

Billy Bush [00:20:11] The victim. Yeah. Is you know why.

Tucker [00:20:13] Do you think they did.

Billy Bush [00:20:14] That? And by the way, I want. And he capitulated.

Billy Bush [00:20:17] And he, like, did this whole apology thing. And he did an interview with the.

Billy Bush [00:20:20] Apologizing for being held. He was like, I'm sorry. I guess I did pull the thing down or the I don't know what he just apologized for, what they told him to apologize for. And in the end, he did nothing. He did nothing.

Tucker [00:20:32] Wrong. Whatever happened to them, Do you know?

Billy Bush [00:20:34] I know, right? I mean, he did a reality show for a minute or tried to.

Billy Bush [00:20:40] Did he dance with the stars, Tucker? Like you? I don't.

Tucker [00:20:43] Know. Never did that, Billy. Yes, you did. That's bullshit.

Billy Bush [00:20:46] And you were terrible.

Tucker [00:20:47] I didn't do that. I think actually, I had. I was staying at your house during that.

Billy Bush [00:20:53] Tom DeLay was worse because you were back.

Tucker [00:20:56] Well, that's something. But I still don't understand. Like this. This was basically decision by this was from a viewer perspective. Al Roker decided to change the story and everyone followed him.

Billy Bush [00:21:09] While he was sipping cabanas with this this cocktail. And he started going after me like I'm defending.

Billy Bush [00:21:15] You know, this this Ryan Lochte, you who behaved like.

Billy Bush [00:21:17] We need to be able to call out our own people who behave terribly and Paul Ryan. I said we don't you can pull it up on YouTube. We don't have the information. We don't know. Just wait. Wait when? In two weeks later, when the breeze blows through and everything's done, it comes out? Absolutely. Ryan Lochte, he told the truth.

Tucker [00:21:38] What do you think Roker so angry about? I mean, he's like a weather guy on some morning show. He gets paid all this money and everyone's, you know, thinks he's trying.

Billy Bush [00:21:46] He wants to be more everybody wants to be a great interviewer. But you have to prepare for those and you have to be curious. And that's.

Tucker [00:21:52] Why. But what's he mad about is he seems to have succeeded far beyond.

Billy Bush [00:21:57] I don't know, people in the people in in network, you know.

Billy Bush [00:22:00] These big organizations are territorial.

Billy Bush [00:22:02] Very.

Billy Bush [00:22:03] Territorial. You can look back at the stories of, you know, Ashleigh Banfield story of the, you know, the big wigs.

Billy Bush [00:22:11] Ahead of her, keeping her.

Billy Bush [00:22:12] Down, not wanting her to rise up.

Billy Bush [00:22:14] I was always very close to Matt Lauer and Al Roker until I got.

Billy Bush [00:22:18] To the Today show.

Billy Bush [00:22:19] And then I had like.

Billy Bush [00:22:20] Targets on my back.

Billy Bush [00:22:22] From the moment I got.

Tucker [00:22:23] Off of them.

Billy Bush [00:22:24] There's two worlds. There's the. Yeah. And, you know, remember, my relationship with them before was as the guy.

Billy Bush [00:22:31] On Access Hollywood who basically would promote them. Right. Right. I my job was to promote everything on NBC, whether that's The Apprentice. Or whether that's the Today Show. I am the chief rabble rouser entertainment guy. We cover everything. But NBC's stuff is first. Yes, you can cover, you know, 24 on Fox, but.

Billy Bush [00:22:54] First covers Seinfeld because it's on NBC.

Billy Bush [00:22:57] So we promote our own things. It's just like a football announcer saying, and tonight, don't be a fan. Make sure you catch NCIS L.A. tonight at something on CBS.

Billy Bush [00:23:07] It's a lot of promotion. Access Hollywood was basically a promotional vehicle.

Billy Bush [00:23:11] So when I showed up as. No, I'm now one of you. Who could potentially replace you one day because you're old. Older than I am. And that's just the way it works. Then, you know, you can feel the energy change. So when I ultimately got fired.

Billy Bush [00:23:30] From NBC, it was. A lot to do with the the inner workings, the politics of of. Being the new guy there. Did you.

Billy Bush [00:23:40] Get what.

Tucker [00:23:41] I find so interesting about it? Everything you're saying makes sense. Of course, we've seen a lot. But what's interesting is that nobody said anything to your face that it was all feline passive aggression, Treachery.

Billy Bush [00:23:53] Yeah. I've ridden a I've a great chapter that I wrote and I wrote it years ago. So I wouldn't forget any details of what exactly happened with my firing. And it was just it was it was it's unbelievable. I was playing catch up the whole time. I found out that the Access Hollywood bus tape. I was in the NBC News building by Matt Lauer. Matt Lauer came to me after I got off the air the Today Show on a Tuesday morning and he said, Hey, what are you going to do about the tape? I said, what? What do you mean, Matt? They said the tape of the bus tape. You and Trump and all that. I said, what are you talking about? I said, what do you what do you mean this? And I knew what the I remembered. The tape is.

Billy Bush [00:24:39] 11 years old. It's so.

Tucker [00:24:41] Back up. What? Just start at the beginning of this story. What? What? What was this tape? When was it shot?

Billy Bush [00:24:48] Well, it was shot in 2005. It was the end of Access. Hollywood was rebuilding a studio. So we had to find a reason to get out of the studio. So we did access across America. It started in Miami and the and it goes Dish, whatever to Atlanta, and then it goes to.

Billy Bush [00:25:06] It works its way back to.

Billy Bush [00:25:09] Los Angeles.

Billy Bush [00:25:10] Giving the studio people enough to the workers, enough time to finish a new studio. So it's just, you know, it it was sponsoring the whole thing. But the last stop, how long was pickup? Donald Trump at the Beverly Hills Hotel in Los Angeles and drive him 20 minutes to the studio, deliver him because he's going to make an appearance on Days of Our Lives and he's going to be playing him. He's going to be playing a big, gaudy billionaire who gets hit on by, you know, a a young starlet. That's his character. How do you figure Donald should be able to pull this off? So the bus is pulling in and the cameramen. Okay, wait, the cameramen get off the bus. We got to go down to the end so we can catch your arrival. So the cameramen get off and they run 300 yards ahead.

Billy Bush [00:26:01] While the bus is waiting. Stopped, waiting to, you know, for its to film its approach because the the woman who is going to be acting with is waiting. And there's a there's a welcoming crew from Days of our Lives are all waiting and this is the arrival shot.

Billy Bush [00:26:15] So the cameraman gets off. He never stops recording. They know we're still we're still sitting on the bus with the microphones and he's never stopped. But they but it's the red light is still on. So the audio is still recording as the cameraman, you know, runs away. Can imagine worse luck. Right. But who cares?

Billy Bush [00:26:33] It's just Donald Trump from The Apprentice.

Tucker [00:26:35] And you're just doing this.

Billy Bush [00:26:36] Silly little thing in 2005 and we're doing this silly arrival shot. Well, The Donald that that boy, while we're waiting, you know, he gets into his what he likes to talk about. And, you know, you don't you don't choose the agenda with Donald Trump. He attacks at you. And, you know.

Billy Bush [00:26:55] He started by talking about my co-host, Nancy O'Dell. And and he you know, she's so hot. What happened that that.

Billy Bush [00:27:07] I handled that beautifully and he keeps going. Sorry. I'm just too amused. He just starts talking and.

Billy Bush [00:27:13] Talking and talking and. Well, everybody knows what what he talked about.

Billy Bush [00:27:16] And then when we arrive to the shot, except for the end part, the most amazing. Him talking about taking Nancy O'Dell furniture shopping. And I thought, my God, that is so funny. Why? Like he took Nancy O'Dell furniture shopping because he was trying to hook up there and he's like, here, let me I'll buy you this coffee, buy an armoire. I was like, this is so absurd. It's my God, Do you think it was true? But here's the amazing thing. Yeah, definitely. I got, I got off the bus and. So the cameras are there. We returned to filming, and I'm like, Donald made the person you're acting with, and the whole thing lines up and looks like I'm feeding a wolf to this, you know, feeding this lovely damsel to this wolf after what has just been said. But no one knows what's just been said. And I don't even recall hearing the thing. I didn't hear that till 11 years later. So the whole it's just a giant shit show. Well, but.

Tucker [00:28:36] You work in L.A. in the middle of Hollywood, like you hear a lot of stuff every day. I mean.

Billy Bush [00:28:42] I mean, Julia Roberts has said worse to me. I mean. Right. Really? But no, I mean. Right.

Tucker [00:28:46] I mean, I know the world and you were at the center of the world. So like every day people are saying things they wouldn't want to be on camera.

Billy Bush [00:28:52] Right. But you also have this. We worked in this incredibly weird world where you have like ten, 15 minutes in my case.

Billy Bush [00:29:01] Forever because it was a drive across town.

Billy Bush [00:29:05] To really talk to someone before.

Billy Bush [00:29:07] You talk to someone. Yes, right.

Billy Bush [00:29:09] You and I chatted for 15 minutes before we turned these microphones on, just like, hey, you know, she's on like 40 drive. Yeah, no, but but I've known you for a long time. But that's. But if I. If you didn't know me, you would have that time.

Tucker [00:29:20] Always, always.

Billy Bush [00:29:21] To establish a little rapport when you meet them where they are.

Tucker [00:29:25] Yeah.

Billy Bush [00:29:26] So with him you don't you don't have a choice, You know, it's never how the wife. How's the wife and kids is never that. There's no what I did the other day. Great shot over the bunker. You can only hope it's a golf day. But then listen, here's the thing. The amazing thing is, after that happen, like, if you want to look at like I reported it, I didn't report it. Like he said, terrible things on the bus. This is awful. I reported it to my ran upstairs to my boss and I go, my God, Every time with Trump, it's something else. The animal. You wouldn't believe what he did. He tried to take Nancy O'Dell furniture shopping and so he could get laid. I was like, this is crazy. And tell me you're not going to believe this. The next day that boss says, no, I heard the whole thing. You told me yesterday the guy was rolling. I said he rolled on the tape. I said, Well, you better do something with that tape. And the reason I said that was for no nothing that I did, nothing that I was ashamed of. I don't care. The reason was.

Billy Bush [00:30:30] In 2005, Donald Trump was the biggest star on NBC News, not news on NBC, making $100 million in profit a year for the network. Had that tape leaked out in 2005, when it happened, heads would have rolled, including mine, because you just. Completely tarnished our major cash cow.

Tucker [00:30:53] But can I ask. I mean, I've been around. You know, microphones and cameras my whole life. And my understanding to this day is you don't tape people without their knowledge.

Billy Bush [00:31:04] In the state of California. It's. Well, this is what's amazing. So in 11 years later, NBC News themselves leaks that tape to The Washington Post that there is no doubt they never launched an internal on this. You have a proprietary piece of property that could affect a presidential election and it gets out of your building to someone else. You don't want an investigation as to how that got out. You've got to look you've got to find out how that got out. Well, it would have ended in five seconds and it got shoved off to the wash.

Tucker [00:31:36] Well, I guess what I'm saying is it's unfair to tape people when they don't know they're being taped.

Billy Bush [00:31:42] It's also illegal in.

Billy Bush [00:31:43] The state of California if both people don't know it's litigious.

Billy Bush [00:31:46] That's why they gave it to The Washington Post.

Billy Bush [00:31:48] You've got the biggest story of the entire the October surprise of all surprises. You've got it in your hands and you leak it to someone else. What? You're a giant news division.

Billy Bush [00:31:58] This is so many clicks for you. This is so much traffic. Why wouldn't you own. That's what you can't. Because Donald is litigious, first of all. And second of all. There's enough reason to believe there's no camera on the bus that he didn't know he's being so wrong.

Tucker [00:32:17] You shouldn't do that. I mean, why is it different putting cameras on his bedroom or the bathroom? Like, well, what? It is wrong.

Billy Bush [00:32:23] So that's what I thought all week long before I got fire. Okay.

Tucker [00:32:26] So, okay, so but let's it's actually more interesting story than I realize. So this happens 2005 now, almost 20 years ago. You tell your boss he's seen the tape. He has seen the off the bus, the bus portion of the tape. When you talk to.

Billy Bush [00:32:42] Him, he heard it that one day and told me.

Billy Bush [00:32:45] I never heard it. He just said, yeah, the audio was on. He told me I heard the Nancy stuff. He never mentioned anything about.

Billy Bush [00:32:51] The word grab. It never came up. Your boss.

Billy Bush [00:32:54] Rob Silverstein?

Tucker [00:32:56] Yes, Yes.

Billy Bush [00:32:58] But here's the crazy thing.

Tucker [00:33:00] The executive producer of the show.

Billy Bush [00:33:01] Executive producer of Access Hollywood. But we'll get to how he's become the executive producer of my new show. Once again, how that's come full circle. What's forgiveness, Tucker? It's an amazingly powerful thing.

Billy Bush [00:33:13] You ought to try it. You ought to try it. He's working for it. Don't think I didn't kick his teeth in. Don't think we didn't fall out for two years. Don't think I didn't take back the Rolex I gave him as a gift when I moved from the from the from the Pee-Wee's to the big leagues. When I got my big job at the Today show, I had a party and I said, Here you go, baby. I'm giving you a Rolex. Thanks for helping me get there. Two months later, I said, You son of a bitch. If I ever see you, I'm going to kill you and I'm going to give me that fucking.

Billy Bush [00:33:39] That Rolex back.

Tucker [00:33:41] And now is your producer.

Billy Bush [00:33:42] That was my producer again because you know what we'd.

Billy Bush [00:33:44] So many just sometimes you have a reason.

Billy Bush [00:33:48] I don't blame him because he was looking.

Billy Bush [00:33:50] To he asked for permission when he sent the tape to NBC News.

Billy Bush [00:33:55] He was asking for permission to use it.

Tucker [00:33:57] Which. Okay. What's his back up here? Because I know the story, but others don't. So you and Rob option was your friend to not just rip? Yeah.

Billy Bush [00:34:08] So we spent the night together sharing a bed.

Billy Bush [00:34:11] And during the blackout in New York in like, 2012 or whatever.

Billy Bush [00:34:15] Wow. Because we had nowhere to go. Yeah.

Billy Bush [00:34:17] Sweating next to this guy.

Tucker [00:34:20] So that's the last you hear of this tape for 11 years until you get off the air. If I'm following this correctly and Matt Lauer comes up to you and you're not thinking about the tape, no one ever mention the tape again. The tape is just like the day.

Billy Bush [00:34:35] Before that.

Billy Bush [00:34:36] Monday, Rob Silverstein called me in New York and he just said, hey, just, you know, NBC's asking a bit over the tape. The Trump and the whole thing they like, they may want to like, look at that. I'm asking for a transcript. I may send it to him because Trump said some crazy things. You don't worry about you. You don't do anything on it. You don't even say a thing. I say, okay, whatever. It doesn't mean anything. Then the next day I said, I'll call you if anything happens. I never got a call from him. The next thing I hear about it is it's in lax hands. Andy Lack, the chairman of NBC News, has it. And Kim, whatever her name is, the legal counsel, the lawyer, she's on it. And Laura says you should probably go see Andy Lack, you know, before this thing. They have it. And I was like, my God. Okay. So when I left, the studio, went across up to Andy Lack's office, and then Noah was there and I said, Hey, Noah, what's going on? And he said, Yes, we got this tape. I said, Listen, I've never I know what tape like, I know about the tape. I just But I have never heard it like I've. So he played it for me. And I will never.

Billy Bush [00:35:46] Forget.

Billy Bush [00:35:47] Sitting in Noah Oppenheim's office, the president, the general manager of the Today Show as he played the part. And when it got to the grab line, Noah laughed.

Billy Bush [00:35:55] I was in the room, he laughed. And I guess I got fired for laughing.

Billy Bush [00:36:00] But there he is laughing. Because when you hear something that absurd, what do you do? You laugh. Mostly laugh. It's like a nervous laugh. Yeah. You know, I've never heard anyone say what he said. I was like, This can't be real, obviously, so I'm going to laugh.

Billy Bush [00:36:18] But I don't recall it.

Billy Bush [00:36:20] So this is the first time I ever heard it was was that day. And I went, dear. And then I watched the tape and I saw the arrival and the greeting. And I said, my God, the optics of this are just horrible. On the first to admit this looks terrible. And what happened in the ensuing days. Was, Hey, what do you want to do about this, Billy? And I said.

Tucker [00:36:43] What do you.

Billy Bush [00:36:43] Want? I said, What do I get? This is from Andy Lack, the chairman.

Billy Bush [00:36:47] Of NBC News, who's the only person in the world that hit with a tire iron if he was sitting right here. Yeah. And Noah. I wouldn't have forgiven Noah. Andy. Tyron.

Tucker [00:36:59] I. Truth.

Billy Bush [00:37:01] But in the ensuing days, it was all. What do you want to do? We could do something with this. You know, these things. And remember this quote. These things have a way of getting out to a new. They said to me and I'm like, No, they don't. You kid.

Billy Bush [00:37:16] Listen, what if if I become the guy who's preamble before interviews gets used, that celeb that whoever that public figure is, is never going to talk to me. I'm going to be the guy that no one wants to talk to me. Leaks Don't talk to Billy Bush before the interview. The cameras are rolling because he's probably secretly rolling. It's Journalism 101. And no one came to.

Billy Bush [00:37:37] My defense on it, of course, because there are it was such a hot time. Everybody was just, you know, their their heads were in the sand.

Billy Bush [00:37:45] But. That whole week was what do you want to do? And I said, I can't use this. It's illegal to do that to him, to anyone. I wasn't defending Trump. I'm defending my reputation as a journalist and someone who wants to interview other people in the future.

Tucker [00:38:01] And just basic fairness. Yeah. And also, by the way, you were paid to interview Trump and to do this set piece with him, a seen with him. That was your job, Like you didn't. It's not like you and Trump were like in a bar or something. It was like this. You were you were working for the same companies.

Billy Bush [00:38:18] A primary job for me. Then remember this? The Apprentice was the biggest thing on TV.

Billy Bush [00:38:23] And Trump, every other celebrity had a.

Billy Bush [00:38:24] Publicist that followed them around and said, You can't say this, you can't do that. You can't use this. You know, they try to shape your message. Trump's publicist literally just carried like a bag for him because Trump is.

Billy Bush [00:38:36] Going to do what Trump's going to want to do. He doesn't care. So he was a soundbite machine. I was with him three days a week and when I wasn't with him, but my boss would say, How do you get the next thing with Trump, we got to Trump's. We need him for we need him every day if we can have him because he's saying things like, remember all the horrible stuff he said about Rosie. But every entertainment show couldn't wait to run that as a headline. Of course, no one does this. A mixed set. Trump. How is his gold for ratings?

Tucker [00:39:08] He's unbelievable. In fact, he's.

Billy Bush [00:39:11] Also I was constantly tasked with how we get on his plane, get into his apartment, go on a house tour with him. One of the great things I did with Donald Trump still available online. Check it out. We went voting together in 2000 for Bush-Kerry and we went voting together. And it was we went to four different polling places and he wasn't registered in any of them. It was hysterical. And he kept getting various. So I just did all these things. And did you have fun? It was part of my job. Like I got promoted.

Billy Bush [00:39:42] Ultimately became the host of the show because of the amazing things I did with Donald Trump. I dressed up in in disguise and snuck into the season two auditions of of The Apprentice. And I auditioned as a mustache and I had a cowboy hat on to call myself Richard Broome. And I made my way over to a table and Donald was sitting at the table and I sat down with eight other strangers and he asked questions of everybody. So if there'd be a party, no way.

Billy Bush [00:40:11] And he looks at me and he goes, You're a weird looking fellow. You take off your hat and take it off. Because if I don't know, that's Billy Bush. I don't know. We had a huge laugh. I mean, let me tell you something. Donald Trump was the greatest reality television host ever, ever, ever. He was especially for our show. And for that, that show began as something else. And it turned out, you know what? Why don't we started doing 15 minutes of the boardroom at the end. Let's do 15 minutes of stupid lemonade sales and then 55 minutes or 45 minutes of the boardroom at the end, because.

Billy Bush [00:40:48] That's what people really want to see.

Tucker [00:40:50] Because the drama.

Billy Bush [00:40:51] The drama.

Billy Bush [00:40:52] Trump Go ahead. Look, Bradley, I can't believe it. You look like can you believe what Sara said about you? It's terrible. She shouldn't say that about you, Sara. You look like a nice person. Why would you do that to Brandy? And you've just picked these fights? I didn't. And people loved it. Yeah.

Tucker [00:41:05] Amazing.

Billy Bush [00:41:05] Amazing.

Tucker [00:41:06] How is he regarded at NBC?

Billy Bush [00:41:08] He was.

Billy Bush [00:41:10] This is a story that'll blow your mind. My brother is a great health care executive, built a company called Famous Athenahealth. The chairman of his board at one point became. Jeff Immelt. Who became the chairman of my brother's board. My brother reported to him from GE as the CEO, from GE and GE, you know, owned NBC long before when when The Apprentice was just coming on and Donald wanted his contract renegotiated. And he demand forget Jeff Zucker and the NBC people. I want Immelt to do this with me. I want the.

Billy Bush [00:41:45] CEO of GE.

Billy Bush [00:41:47] To do my second year deal.

Billy Bush [00:41:49] And Immelt told my brother, he's like, you know. If there were.

Billy Bush [00:41:53] Cameras at that lunch or a little.

Billy Bush [00:41:55] Hidden microphone at that lunch, I guess I would have been fired. Because you just go with what Trump wants to go with. I mean, you know what I mean. Because here's one thing about Trump. He is. His loyalty is in law. If you like. If I were to say to him, Hey, how dare you talk like that? Like I'm not going to be on this bus, you shouldn't say such terrible things. I will. I'm leaving. And I took a moral stand and walked out or whatever. I did get rid of Billy Bush we don't like. And we're doing Entertainment Tonight.

Billy Bush [00:42:25] Only now. That's it.

Billy Bush [00:42:27] And then you're done. So literally, my job hired to was to make sure we.

Billy Bush [00:42:32] Had him as often as possible and get great soundbites and.

Billy Bush [00:42:35] Kick ass.

Tucker [00:42:35] You ever hear any NBC executives complain about him or his politics?

Billy Bush [00:42:40] No, but I do know that, look, he was placated as every big star of every big show.

Billy Bush [00:42:46] In the business is all the way up to the ivory tower, 100% from Jeff Zucker to Jeff Immelt. The whole you know, here's here's a beautiful irony. Jeff Zucker, who I like was running the show at NBC Entertainment. He's the one who put he built this. If Trump is Frankenstein, he built them in the laboratory and they built this apprentice and they made him and, you know, the wheeling and dealing machine on his helicopter, this incredible image. Can you imagine a better image on network television crafted for you than that one? And Zucker then became years later. The head of the resistance, the guy that built them, then became the head of the resistance movement. It's amazing. It's amazing. In a matter of ten years, like this recording of this bus tape, there was a, I would have been fired. It had leaked out then for hurting the star. 11 years later, in a lawsuit over Miss Universe and whatever else, NBC feels completely differently about Donald Trump. And now it's get him at all costs. Get him out of this presidential race at all costs.

Billy Bush [00:43:55] I don't care who we have to kill or shoot and head on the way, including. Billy Bush. No problem. Get rid of him. So that's.

Tucker [00:44:04] An incredible.

Billy Bush [00:44:06] Signing.

Tucker [00:44:07] There was so much going on during that period that it you know, of course, that the tape in that one phrase still kind of hangs in the air. But but the actual story never really got told There was too much chaos.

Billy Bush [00:44:20] It's never been told. It was like the opening.

Tucker [00:44:22] Salvos of a war and like an atrocity was left unexamined.

Billy Bush [00:44:25] No, I look, I was a sitting duck, right?

Billy Bush [00:44:27] It was a hot time. People were feeling really strongly, you know, as they as they still are.

Billy Bush [00:44:33] Trump is the, you'd say country music. Love him or hate him, right? I mean.

Tucker [00:44:38] So what was that to you? Okay, so you move over and that just to be I just want to say this for a third time, that tape after you spoke to Rob about it, to your E.P. about it the next day, was never mentioned again. And for 11 years.

Billy Bush [00:44:55] No, never mentioned again. It was it. No. Intermittently over the years, Bill. Again, that reminds me the number that Trump told me about that. But it was.

Billy Bush [00:45:03] Always about Nancy O'Dell, maybe.

Billy Bush [00:45:05] Every three years or something, right? Right. Maybe five times total between 2005 and 2016. Nancy O'Dell always as a reference because Trump said something that reminded me of rape. The whole thing.

Tucker [00:45:18] Was Trump political, by the way? Was he regarded as political when he was the host of The Apprentice? No.

Billy Bush [00:45:23] God, no, No, not at all. The idea that this.

Billy Bush [00:45:27] If you want to talk about just bad luck in general with the idea that Donald Trump in 2005 would one day run for president and he's talked about it forever, but he would do it to just, you know, mix things up.

Tucker [00:45:39] He called me right before he announced and said, I'm going to announce. And I laughed. Yeah, because I'd known him all these years. And I thought of Trump as a person who was not serious about politics, who was going to use it to sell a book or promote a show or whatever.

Billy Bush [00:45:53] Reboot the image after The Apprentice had run its course. It's very successful.

Tucker [00:45:57] Literally laughed at him when he called me. I was in the car. I'll never forget it. Yeah. And he was totally calm and he said, Yeah, I see what you're saying. But I think this time I'm going to surprise you. And he he sounded totally different. But but I agree with, you know, much better than when he.

Billy Bush [00:46:10] Came down the escalator. I said, my God, this is going to be unbelievable. This is going to he's going to he's having so much fun. Exactly. This is a joke. He's having fun. And all of a sudden, everything he said that people didn't like, he got more popular. And he's like, what? I don't think he he he was surprised more than anyone.

Billy Bush [00:46:30] Like, wait a minute, they like me more. Okay? And he just steamrolled everybody.

Tucker [00:46:36] So now, I mean, it's also it's also amazing in retrospect. But did he and all the time you spend spent with him, did he ever say anything you thought was political at all? No.

Billy Bush [00:46:48] No interest? Never. No, It was it was. It was not. In 2000 for the beginning of The Apprentice, and he I remember him laughing. I said, have you endorsed one of these? Have you given money to one of the candidates or you're behind one of them because. Yeah, I said that. Which one it is? I can't do that. I said, Is there a chance that it's both of them? And he said there is.

Billy Bush [00:47:20] Like he had given money to both. Guy, you're my guy. Here's a check. You're my guy. Here's a check. Remember, he Trump was open about that back in the day. He was like, look, I needed to build. I wanted my businesses to thrive. So I played nice with everybody on both sides. Remember his wedding in.

Billy Bush [00:47:34] 2005 with Melania? There's Bill and Hillary Clinton. And, you know, everyone's there. Kiss in the ring.

Tucker [00:47:41] Amazing. Yeah. Okay. So you go up to any clerk's office? No oppenheim's in there. You screen the tape and they say to you, Billy, what do you want to do about that?

Billy Bush [00:47:52] What do you want to do about this? Like, do you want to get out of your probably I mean, I could have done what the little minion who wants to save his butt and I might have if I had been if I wasn't so stupid. I didn't get what they were saying. In other words, you're saying, do you want to get out in front of it? What if I had.

Billy Bush [00:48:11] Taken that tape?

Billy Bush [00:48:13] And the most disingenuous little save my own ass move I get on the air and I say, okay, look.

Billy Bush [00:49:02] Wow. Billy Bush is courageous by the media establishment. What a courageous guy. He had to do that. We'll give him a pass. Because, look, he brought forward this beautiful thing that will take out because he's.

Tucker [00:49:14] Screwing Trump, because.

Billy Bush [00:49:15] He's screwing Trump. And in the end, this is the very beginning of Trump derangement syndrome. It no matter what, screwing Trump is paramount above everything else. Yes. So I would have gotten the pass from the media and and maybe still, you know, take a little vacation, but be back still at the Today show, making lots and lots of money for you know. But I said, no, no, it's wrong. I can't have people look at me that I'm got to be I'm not the guy that's doing that. You're not anyone. Yeah, I know this happens and I know how you want this election to turn out. I know how you want it to turn out, but I can't do that. I wouldn't do it to anyone. And they said, okay, we understand. And then they tried.

Billy Bush [00:50:01] To get Access Hollywood. Okay. Why don't you guys do a little version of this and put it on?

Billy Bush [00:50:05] And then I made.

Billy Bush [00:50:06] A huge mistake. And I said to.

Billy Bush [00:50:07] My executive producer, I said, Trump didn't know that this was on any other guess. Wouldn't I have no protectionism of Trump? I don't you know, I'm whatever. It's just wrong. And they're setting you up. You're going to become the fall guy. Trump's going to sue NBC for putting this thing out there because he didn't know he was being recorded. And you're the fall guy, you dummy, and they're going to fire you. And he went, my God, you're right. So he called back Andy Lack, and he said, Now I'm not putting it on Access Hollywood tonight.

Billy Bush [00:50:37] That was a Friday night.

Billy Bush [00:50:40] No.

Billy Bush [00:50:40] Thursday night. Remember that Sunday, the ninth was the. Second presidential debate with Hillary. Hillary Clinton. They needed this.

Billy Bush [00:50:49] Out there before the debate. So Anderson Cooper's first.

Billy Bush [00:50:52] Question could be about this speech about sexual assault and Donald Trump perpetrating.

Tucker [00:50:59] A saint. So all that a little background context. You said this was the beginning of Trump derangement syndrome. Did you sense that at NBC?

Billy Bush [00:51:07] God, absolutely. I mean, anything. Remember this over at ABC News? They did. At the same time when Trump became president, they launched a 70 they built a 75 person investigative unit. I know the guy who was head of it, dedicated to anything negative on Trump. Find stuff on him and get him out. This is not journalism. This is not news. It is activism. When you're when when you're calling.

Billy Bush [00:51:39] Journalism total activism.

Billy Bush [00:51:41] So that's.

Tucker [00:51:42] What do you think that all.

Billy Bush [00:51:43] The major networks that's why by the way when when NBC does the shitty thing that they did ABC and CBS don't call it out. They don't say of course, you know, hey, you're competing with each other. I would want to pound my competitor. Yeah, like look what you did. That was dirty because all of them would have done it too, probably, you know what I mean? They all shared that mission.

Tucker [00:52:00] I mean, you know, even even at the, you know, channel I worked at, which was the one conservative channel and a lot of people hated Trump, really, really hated Trump. But you were in such an interesting spot because you knew him so well for so many years. Yeah, totally.

Billy Bush [00:52:17] MetLife hosted eight pageants for him all over the world and went with the Donald to Ecuador, to.

Billy Bush [00:52:24] Bangkok, to Panama as we tried to take back the canal.

Billy Bush [00:52:30] I was with him all the time. I flew on his plane and hosted the Paley Center panel on this incredible phenomenon, The Apprentice.

Billy Bush [00:52:38] And I mean, Donald said, you can fly with me.

Billy Bush [00:52:40] And we flew on the plane. I never seen Donald.

Billy Bush [00:52:42] Without a tie on. It was this day rolled up sleeves, buttons, you know, the white shirt unbuttoned, no tie. It was incredible. Never have I seen that.

Billy Bush [00:52:52] And I didn't know what to make of it. Feels like he's so relaxed. It's just weird. But he hung out and he told stories. With this, I had spent more time with them. I still think I've spent more time with him on camera than anyone.

Tucker [00:53:04] I bet that's right. For sure. And I spent a lot of time with Trump. And I I'll just I'll just say I've enjoyed pretty much all of it. Fun. Got to be.

Billy Bush [00:53:13] Wildly entertaining, wildly, wildly entertaining. And I have to tell you, one of the funniest people I have ever.

Tucker [00:53:19] Yes.

Billy Bush [00:53:20] The laughter that I. I loved splitting my sides, laughing, at the least he would say. And some of it's because it's is almost like a caricature. You know, the third person speak and all that is just it's wildly funny. So you don't really take much of it seriously. You know, when he said.

Billy Bush [00:53:38] What he said at the end of the tape there, that I never for a second thought that that was a serious thing. I'm just not who would say that? And I just. But you just laugh.

Tucker [00:53:50] Yeah, the funniest. I agree. The funniest. The funniest. I once took someone I went to dinner with them and I brought someone who was, you know, politically on his side, I think, but was like, really? Donald Trump? And at the end of the meal, this broke on the cover of the person because that's the greatest dinner I've ever had. Yeah, I've never had a drop out of my wife. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway.

Billy Bush [00:54:12] But so given the.

Tucker [00:54:14] I think you actually have spent way more time on camera than anyone in the world with Donald Trump, so it just puts you at it. But again, as you've said, not in any kind of political context. So now you're working on the Today Show, biggest, biggest news show in the country.

Billy Bush [00:54:29] And they put out an APB to all properties, Find us something that show because a woman who was a miss Universe.

Billy Bush [00:54:38] Contestant this is early.

Billy Bush [00:54:40] End of September had come forward and said he was disparaging towards.

Billy Bush [00:54:47] Towards a woman in my life. I've never done anything like that. So then NBC said, okay, find something.

Billy Bush [00:54:54] Of it. Look at all your tapes. Everybody, every division of anything he might have said disparaging about a woman so we can prove him wrong. How we got you. And then Rob Silverstein.

Billy Bush [00:55:05] My executive producer, and I was like, wait a minute. The tape that's collecting dust in my thing, he said something about Nancy O'Dell that was disparaging. Remember, this is always been about you. And so he takes the tape out and he's like, then he calls NBC to say, hey, I may have something. I could use it. I'm not sure I need your legal approval because. Although a very small division. It's a division of NBC News, Access Hollywood. So I need legal permission here. I don't want to go out there because I don't think he knows he's being recorded. I need a blessing. And then they send it. And from there they said, okay, we'll take it from here. What do you.

Tucker [00:55:43] Think? That was why I mean, it's just so especially strange for NBC, which as you've said a couple of times, was the recipient of like all this profit, $100 million a year from this show. So, like, they love Trump and but they pivot so fast to hating Trump obsessively. Why?

Billy Bush [00:56:01] Well, 11 years, a lot can.

Billy Bush [00:56:03] Happen, like the bitter negotiations over the Miss Universe pageant and the fallout and lawsuits and countersuits. And, you know, they he after he left The Apprentice, they replaced him at one point with. You know, they tried to replace him with Arnold Schwarzenegger and he denigrated them. And Lady Schwarzenegger was terrible. Those two hated each other. They fought.

Billy Bush [00:56:26] You know. Trump's the straight vs. He's the king of the concrete jungle. Yeah. You know, and so he's like, once The Apprentice had died, he blamed them for it. And, you know, he fights. He fights dirty and they.

Tucker [00:56:39] Yeah.

Billy Bush [00:56:39] You know, and I think they had, you know, that big lawsuit over over Miss Universe. Kind of bummed them out.

Billy Bush [00:56:46] And they they ended up hating each other. It happens.

Tucker [00:56:49] Yeah. Yes.

Billy Bush [00:56:50] In some of, you know. And so a falling out. And then when he decides to run.

Billy Bush [00:56:57] Later, now it's like, get him at all costs.

Billy Bush [00:57:00] And they want. Hillary. They just. Yeah, they wanted.

Tucker [00:57:05] To agree, but you didn't see that.

Billy Bush [00:57:08] But with such vitriol for Trump.

Tucker [00:57:10] Yeah, it was crazy. And it wasn't just NBC was everybody knows everybody. Like what? What? But looking back eight years later, any idea why it's not like Trump is super right wing or anything?

Billy Bush [00:57:19] Well, back in the day, look, I'm going to confess myself. I said, listen, I spent a lot of time with Trump. He'd be a terrible president. This is a crazy idea. Yeah, this is and I said that on the air in 2015 on my live daytime show. I said this as a man who has spent probably the most amount of time, this is a terrible idea. Now, to be clear, you know, I'm the nephew of George H.W. Bush.

Billy Bush [00:57:43] You know, this is he was a real. Stewart and by the book sort of guy and felt.

Billy Bush [00:57:51] You know, he was a character.

Billy Bush [00:57:52] First all these things.

Billy Bush [00:57:54] Trump was something we'd never seen.

Tucker [00:57:55] But also he was he was since you brought it up, he was running against your cousin.

Billy Bush [00:57:59] And he's running against Jeb.

Billy Bush [00:58:00] Low energy. Jeb.

Tucker [00:58:02] So this puts you in, like, the weirdest position of anybody in the media?

Billy Bush [00:59:10] And you can't do it to someone like Donald who's going to sue you. So it's dead and they can. Okay. And as soon as Access Hollywood said they're not doing it either. We're not touching this. NBC didn't want to touch it. They knew that Trump would sue them. They slid it to the Washington Post and they do that. I'm on a plane. I want a plan that Friday, two days before the debate, I'm going home to Los Angeles to see my family. And right before the wheels go up, might look

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