Jenner Furst: Secret Chinese Biotech Programs, and the Documentary That Could Put Dr. Fauci in Jail

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The Tucker Carlson Show

106 mins

Why isn’t Tony Fauci in prison? You’ll wonder after you watch “Thank You, Dr. Fauci,” now out on TCN. Jenner Furst made the documentary. Even if you think you know a lot, this is an amazing conversation.

Chapters
7 chapters in this episode

Exposing Fauci and the COVID Cover-up00:00:00
1. Exposing Fauci and the COVID Cover-up
The Truth About COVID's Origins00:04:24
2. The Truth About COVID's Origins
Were the 2001 Anthrax Attacks a False Flag?00:09:53
3. Were the 2001 Anthrax Attacks a False Flag?
The Real Reason Fauci Pushed for mRNA Vaccines00:22:26
4. The Real Reason Fauci Pushed for mRNA Vaccines
The Pandemic Began Much Earlier Than You Were Told00:30:00
5. The Pandemic Began Much Earlier Than You Were Told
Why COVID Is Different From Any Other Virus00:38:02
6. Why COVID Is Different From Any Other Virus
Donald Trump's Historic Appointments01:19:00
7. Donald Trump's Historic Appointments
Transcript
Tucker [00:00:00] Thank You, Dr. Fauci. So I lived at the beginning of Covid in northwest D.C., where I'd been, you know, most of my life. And there were actual yard signs that said, Thank you, Dr. Fauci.

Jenner Furst [00:00:11] Yeah, the title is ironic.

Tucker [00:00:14] Yeah, but I don't think so. You told me before we went on that you're from Brookline, Massachusetts, originally. I spent most of my life in northwest D.C. They're very similar, well-educated, affluent, enormous self-regard. You know, these are communities that think a lot of themselves. And it was those communities in retrospect that were the ones opposed to the. Thank you, Dr. Fauci signs in my imagining that.

Jenner Furst [00:00:38] No, that happened.

Tucker [00:00:40] Yeah. But in those specific communities, in the richest, best educated communities, you know, I don't think you saw a lot of. Thank you, Dr. Fauci, signs in Gary, Indiana, or Detroit. You saw them in Bethesda, you know, Santa Monica, Brookline, D.C…

Jenner Furst [00:00:55] Yeah. And I lived in New York for two decades by that point. And I don't think a lot of people in New York were thinking, Dr. Fauci. I don't think the sanitation workers were. Thank you. Dr. Fouche. Exactly. The nurses weren't thanking Dr. Fauci. I mean, it's a forest. It's it's an illusion. The truth is far from the.

Tucker [00:01:33] So I just want to set this conversation. I want to go through like what actually happened. First, I want to thank you for for making this and. But I want because everything is so politicized, particularly Covid. I just want to be clear for our viewers who you are. You know, opposition to Covid policy, to mandatory vaccination questions about where the virus came from. These are kind of staples on the right. They weren't at the time, by the way, I can tell you. But they are now. And, you know, silence and science and say thank you, Dr. Fauci, are sort of signifiers of liberalism. Right? I don't quite know how that happened, but it did. Where are you?

Jenner Furst [00:02:16] I'm nowhere, honestly. I'm trying to use my brain about what happened.

Tucker [00:02:21] Okay.

Jenner Furst [00:02:22] Good. And I don't think I can. I don't. I think I've lost confidence in all political tropes about this topic, and it really helped me see what was happening before with every other topic, because I consider myself a cynical person. I've been investigating these type of scandals and crimes for a long time. Covid was about ten times or 100 times bigger than any fraud or crime I've ever investigated. And I think politics really was key to the manipulation, you know, dividing people. And I just see it in everything that.

Tucker [00:03:03] He simply said. And so what that implies, you don't think the politics drove it? Politics was a tool that the people behind this used to subdue the population.

Jenner Furst [00:03:13] Yeah, I think that the folks who are in positions of enormous power, power that I think is greater than nation states really is transnational global power. Corporate power.

Tucker [00:03:27] Yes.

Jenner Furst [00:03:28] I think that they benefit greatly from the population being divided and fighting amongst themselves about issues that are not even the truth. And in this case, 99% of people on the planet were abused. They were poisoned. Close to 20 million of them were killed. And in that context, they all lost. And a very small, small portion of people on this planet, you know, in the thousands, benefited greatly, even though they were responsible to some extent for this crime. And so it's it's insane to think that for the people who were responsible for this, that it was a win win scenario for them while the rest of the planet was clearly a lose lose scenario. There's nothing political about that.

Tucker [00:04:17] I feel like pounding my fist on the table in agreement. I just. That's so nicely put. Okay, let's start at the beginning. What was this virus? Where did it come from?

Jenner Furst [00:04:27] I think that. I want to give you an easy answer. Yes. But I think I don't think we're ever going to know exactly the moment that this virus emerged from a lab. But we do know that the virus did not emerge from the wet market in Wuhan and that it didn't emerge in December. It likely emerged in August and that it was the product of research that was funded by the United States. And the writing was on the wall that this research could have caused a pandemic for five years at least. And there were regulations in place not to fund this research that Fauci and others violated to fund this research. Exactly. So in that context, whether it got on someone's sleeve on their way to lunch or whether it was released intentionally, everything we know about this virus has been a lie.

Tucker [00:05:19] So the form of research that created it is called often called gain of function and which in crude terms effectively makes a virus its manipulation of a virus to make it more dangerous in order, say researchers, to create more effective vaccines against it. I think that's correct.

Jenner Furst [00:05:36] That's the company.

Tucker [00:05:37] Line. That's the company line. But it's so self-evidently reckless that it was banned or sort of banned under the Obama administration. Just correct.

Jenner Furst [00:05:48] Yeah, it's an interesting story. It's. Really what you'll see in the film is that on the surface, you have this scandal with Covid. You have this virus that doesn't appear to be natural and you have a cover up. Clearly, I mean, if we can't prove the moment the virus leaked or the exact origin, we can prove that there was a cover up. There's more than enough. There's more than enough evidence to do that right now. Yes, but the story didn't start with Covid. The story started almost 20 years ago. Story started really after 911. And you have a country that's reeling from a terrorist attack. And then the anthrax attacks happened. And Anthony Fauci raises his hand to be, you know, the point person for biodefense research. And all of a sudden, billions of dollars go to his department and really out of the supervision of the Pentagon and other areas of the government that had regulated it. And for the last 20 years, this has been a debate. And the sort of coverage that was happening during the pandemic really thrived on the idea that this came out of nowhere. And it's a natural disaster and we all need to band together and we don't know much about what it is, and we just need to be patient with the government, patient with the science patient, patient with the medicine. It was the opposite. We knew all about this virus. It had been researched for close to a decade. The vaccine for this virus was in research for almost five years prior to the virus happening. And many scientists, like the folks in my film, have been ringing the alarm that this was an existential risk to humanity for close to two decades.

Tucker [00:07:33] That's crazy.

Jenner Furst [00:07:35] It's absurd.

Tucker [00:07:35] Those are big facts to keep secret. Yeah. For five years. Yeah. So.

Jenner Furst [00:07:41] And there were other. And. And what I discovered in looking into it was that you start to see a pattern. And that there were other events. In fact, you brought up a Obama regulate and gain a function. Well, that happens, right? At the same time that there's an Ebola outbreak in West Africa. Yes. And there is a connection to gain of function research as a potential origin for that outbreak. And it was successfully covered up. And you find the same people who were implicated in that outbreak, including Anthony Fauci, on secret teleconferences right after the news breaks about Covid. And they actually happen to be people who write the most passionate papers that Covid came from nature, people who were previously suspected of being the source of a lab leak.

Tucker [00:08:27] So so we can say those people were lying when they claimed it came from the wet market in Wuhan.

Jenner Furst [00:08:33] I think that there's no way a reasonable person can look at the evidence here and think that people were telling the truth. I think that Anthony Fauci was telling the truth. I think that the scientists who wrote these papers wrote them with any ethical standards and that they didn't commit fraud. It appears that they all committed some form of fraud, whether it be scientific fraud, Some some of these crimes are felonies. They committed perjury. Multiple scientists committed perjury in front of Congress. Anthony Fauci committed perjury in front of Congress. But. What we have to remember about. For years he's been playing this game for 50 years. He knows how DC works. He knows you know how to operate. And the reason why he may get away with committing perjury is because he was the one who made the regulations for the most part. On what gain of function would be and would not be. And he excluded that dangerous research in Wuhan. And on paper, it wasn't gain of function. And that's the type of game that's been played for, like I said, decades now.

Tucker [00:09:39] I have too many I don't want to overwhelm.

Jenner Furst [00:09:41] Yeah. And I don't want to crash. No, no, no. You know, a lot. But, you know, I also want to speak in a way that people can approach this story because it's it's mind bending.

Tucker [00:09:51] So let me just go back before I lose the thread. You mentioned the end. This been going on since the anthrax attacks, which really were the the pretext that Fauci used to grab all this money in power.

Jenner Furst [00:10:01] Well, we can't blame Fauci for all of that. It was really Dick Cheney who had, you know, been very successful at using 911 to achieve other things, like, well, I.

Tucker [00:10:09] Noticed, you know, invasion of Iraq.

Jenner Furst [00:10:11] Yeah. And the erosion of all of our civil liberties through the, you know, permitting torture, violating the Geneva Convention. These things were all in play after 911 because we were in a war against terror and anthrax was painted as a continuation of the war against terror. The truth is, is that as Bush and Cheney were leaving office, it was released that anthrax was not a terrorist attack. Anthrax was an inside job from a scientist at Fort Detrick, one of our bioweapons facilities.

Tucker [00:10:45] So I remember that vividly. I had white powders into my house and the bio team at that, you know, 2001. I'll never forget it. But we never really got a definitive answer on who. I mean, there was the person I. Q For Steven Hatfill was accused falsely by the media, including the media organization I worked for at the time. And then there was another guy, the support services. That's exactly who's since died.

Jenner Furst [00:11:13] Well, died is a very generous way of putting what may have happened to him.

Tucker [00:11:21] Do you think he did it? Do you think he was murdered?

Jenner Furst [00:11:24] I think that. When he began saying that he didn't act alone and that the media's version of his story was very far from the truth. And when members of Congress started believing that he didn't act alone, he suspiciously committed suicide. By taking a bunch of Tylenol. So I don't really know many accomplished scientists. Bio terrorist experts. People understand all the different compounds that can kill them very peacefully and very fast. Who would take a lot of us a often to kill themselves? It is very suspicious. And the timing was even more suspicious. And I think what I learned was that. In many ways, Anthony Fauci's whole sort of advancement into this unchecked power, into becoming the most prominent scientist on the planet, the largest funder of biomedical research on the planet. Was predicated on a hoax. And to this day, he's never admitted that anthrax was not a terrorist attack. And you can't find that anywhere in his book.

Tucker [00:12:34] If it wasn't a terror attack, what was it?

Jenner Furst [00:12:37] Anthrax was a false flag attack. And anthrax, like 911, allowed for the complete deregulation of bioweapons research, of biodefense research. And if you go back in time, you see this confluence of things. You see the science advancing in very exciting ways, like Crispr, the ability to edit genes, to do things we've never been able to do before. And you see this idea that we're we're under attack and that the enemy may use unconventional means to attack us. And bioweapons immediately came into focus because of the anthrax attack. And that was used to fund a lot of countermeasures, quote unquote, countermeasures for bioweapons. But the interesting thing about gain of function and the interesting thing about doing this research in the first place is that. In order to create a countermeasure for an agent that's never been known or created or a virus that doesn't exist. You have to create the agent and the virus. Yes. And so it creates. A weapon. A pandemic that has never been seen by man before and arguably carries more risk than it carries benefit. And Foushee was almost evangelical about this research to the point that it was suspicious. And scientists like Richard Ebright and others, the Cambridge Working Group, I mean, this debate started almost directly after Anthrax and Fauci began doing this research. I mean, the debate started in like 2002 that we should not be directing all of our research dollars into this one narrow field of, quote, pandemic preparedness. And yet. Found she did and amassed so much influence and power in that system that he was able to shut down every critic. And there were a lot of close calls and there were a lot of red flags. You know, after anthrax and before Ebola, Fauci supported the engineering of avian flu in 2011 to make it airborne. Bird flu is not naturally airborne. It takes a while to transfer from its host. You know, birds to humans happens with pigs. It happens with other intermediate species. And the scientists supported by Anthony Fauci used gain of function techniques in order to hone the virus to be airborne in humans. So this was celebrated by Fauci as a victory of science. There was a big debate on whether the results of this study should even be published. They were published in Fauci and Francis Collins, who was also the NIH director at the time of the pandemic. And very much part of the whole problem that we faced. They wrote an op ed in The Washington Post and said that this was a flu risk worth taking, that doing this dangerous research could cause a pandemic, but that it was a risk worth taking because we would be prepared for that pandemic.

Tucker [00:15:59] Prepared with vaccines.

Jenner Furst [00:16:02] Yeah. And therein lies the next sort of issue is that I think clinicians, doctors who treat people, folks that are pragmatic, will take any remedy or any countermeasure that's effective to help their patients. And what.

Tucker [00:16:21] I in fact, I would replace the word pragmatic with humane.

Jenner Furst [00:16:24] Humane. Any way to stop suffering, any way, anything, you know, dear.

Tucker [00:16:28] Dear job wishes to heal.

Jenner Furst [00:16:30] Yeah.

Tucker [00:16:31] Yeah.

Jenner Furst [00:16:31] And I think that Fauci represents. Sort of almost this paternal grandfather like. Figure. Self-proclaimed because no one asked for this. Who whose job felt less about protecting people or developing things that could help all sorts of people and more about. Carrying a line on what was important in science and digesting science for people in a way that was. If you look back very infantilizing, you know, well, you know, this is how this works and that's how this works. And if you listen to him at a podium is an incredible bedside manner. But he's failing to tell you every. Conflicting piece of evidence is failing to tell you every, you know, piece of gray. It's very black and white. Yes. And he'd been doing that for years. But there's.

Tucker [00:17:30] Always the.

Jenner Furst [00:17:30] Same mark. Yeah.

Tucker [00:17:31] Right. And the bottom line is the vaccine.

Jenner Furst [00:17:33] Right. And so he was he's not a virologist. He's an immunologist. And really, in many ways, his focus is on vaccinology.

Tucker [00:17:43] Right.

Jenner Furst [00:17:44] And so there are such thing as virologist, epidemiologist and and all those people were supported by his funding, his research. But Fauci appeared to have one goal and one solution for problems, which was to develop vaccines for them. Yes. And I think, like many doctors and scientists, would agree. Vaccines are very important. In fact, there could be a pandemic coming any day now that a vaccine may be the only thing to stop it and so much damage. This is very ironic. So much damage was done by Fauci and others to the concept of vaccines that it could be a real charge. It could be a real tragedy when we actually need a vaccine. And people are so distrustful of public health. And I think that when you have very powerful people who have been in D.C. for decades, they live in a bubble where they forget what the rest of the world is doing the way the rest of the world think. And for some reason, in their calculus, in their head, they they, Fauci and others thought that this was the way to talk to people. These were the things to do, and maybe they didn't understand the catastrophic risk.

Tucker [00:18:59] It was five years ago this month that people started to drop dead in the central Chinese city of Wuhan. Five years since the beginning of Covid, tens of millions dead societies reordered completely, economies destroyed. And yet, for some reason, we still don't know answers to the most basic questions Where did this virus come from? How did it get here? Why did the government tell us to do things they knew wouldn't work? None of those questions have been adequately answered, and one man knows those answers. His name is Dr. Tony Fauci. Until now, nobody has really pressed. And now a documentary filmmaker called Jenner First is out with a new film explaining exactly what happened. The film was called Thank You, Dr. Fauci. Jennifer spent years trying to get answers. And in that time, as he awaited Dr. Fauci's response, he went through tens of thousands of pages of documents and pieced together the story, which is shocking. We are proud to host that documentary here on TCM. From December 20th to January 19th, you will see it exclusively here on TCM. Again, it's called Thank you, Dr. Fauci, and it's worth it. Maybe. Maybe there's another explanation. One of the things that I learned but never hadn't known before was that there are a lot of people in our public health establishment who think vaccines are the point. The point. And this has gone on. I've never been against vaccines and always been grateful for the Salk vaccine, etc.. Took a bunch of vaccines myself, but I always assumed that they were sort of tools used by physicians to heal people, to save people from illness. I didn't realize that this mindset was very different from that. They were almost like vaccines were the point. And this goes back, you know, I mean, Diego Rivera, I think, painted a mural panel about vaccines like the worship of vaccines for their own sake is long standing. And I don't understand it. What is that? Do you have any insight?

Jenner Furst [00:21:03] Sure. I mean, I think that if we looked at every other part of our government, our society, that we can see the influence of money and, you know, companies. Yeah. And sadly, public health is no different than any other industry, any other part of our government. They lobby, they spend a lot of money. The pharmaceutical industry spends a lot of money. There's a lot of money to be made on sick people. And sadly, folks in positions of, you know, that that are making policy for America, which in many ways leads the world in a lot of this stuff is very influential. Those folks are sometimes compromised. And I think that your what you brought up about vaccines, you can see the same thing across the rest of the pharmaceutical industry that many times there's a cheap and effective cure for something that cost $2 and it's not going to get promoted and it's not going to get talked about because a new drug has to be developed and a new treatment has to be developed. And instead of focusing on a ton of different things that could have stopped people from dying, let's just take the research aside. Let's just take the part that America could be responsible for the pandemic in the first place. And that. Absolutely. Tragic crime, the way that the public health establishment in many ways run by Anthony Fauci. And I can explain that a little bit more. Had one focus, and that was to develop a vaccine and that people like Bob Redfield would tell you that it wasn't even the vaccine that could be the safest. It wasn't the vaccine that could be the most reliable. It was the vaccine that was going to be an RNA vaccine. And that really is was the core of influence inside warp speed. It was Moderna and Pfizer, and they got the first bite of the Apple and JNJ, of course, and AstraZeneca. They also were part of it. But this Amani technology, Fauci had been talking about it for years, and it initially was for cancer. It didn't work. And they had shifted about 4 or 5 years before the pandemic into developing a pan coronavirus, pan influenza vaccine. And a lot of that research was happening in places like Wuhan. And so it was, you know, almost a reverse engineered scenario where the number one cure for this virus was going to be an RNA vaccine despite it, you know, the science or, you know, regardless of whatever the testing or the safety, that's what had to happen.

Tucker [00:23:45] But the nature of an RNA vaccine as distinct from conventional vaccines, is risky.

Jenner Furst [00:23:52] It's very risky. And it's also a miracle of science. Right. It's that we can teach our bodies how to fight these things. And this kind of, you know, taking vaccine technology to the next level.

Tucker [00:24:04] But I mean, I think a layman would say correctly that in doing that, you're potentially tampering with the formula of life.

Jenner Furst [00:24:12] And we're. Not that intelligent as a life force. I mean, we use about 10% of our brains. So to think that we could manage the fallout or the blowback in species that are a billion years old, I think is extremely pompous and insane of humans to think that. And that's what scientists also believed who didn't get the air time and who many of them their careers suffered when they challenged Fauci on this premise that this gain of function work, you know, forget about the vaccines, which are the flip side, just the gain of function work alone is playing master of the universe.

Tucker [00:24:50] Yes. And the idea of an RNA vaccine itself sort of raises a lot of questions. Sure. That's a good idea. I mean, what if it actually what if it does change your DNA? That's not crazy to think that it did.

Jenner Furst [00:25:01] Yeah. And that's the scary thing is that it did and it did.

Tucker [00:25:06] We can say that.

Jenner Furst [00:25:07] We can say now that there's enough data on the table to say now that the mRNA vaccines changed people's DNA. And even worse, there was such a.

Tucker [00:25:16] What are the what's your stop right there that, you know, I remember hosting guests who suggested that early and were like banished from public life. Yeah. All but arrested for saying that. Now we know it's true. But do we know the ramifications of that?

Jenner Furst [00:25:31] Well, it's interesting, you know, that we're coming to this 4 or 5 years later. I think if you look at a pattern of horrible scientific accidents and catastrophes, bad policy, bad products, it takes usually a decade, 20 years, 50 years, You'll see in the film. It's interesting you brought up salt. Saul had a competitor that was the oral polio vaccine, and they were both racing to complete trials at the same time. And there's data that suggests that that scientists Hillary Parsky, who was in the Belgian Congo, was using chimpanzee kidneys to propagate his polio vaccine against the concerns of a lot of scientists who worried that viruses could go from chimpanzees to humans really easily. We have very similar DNA, and he did those trials in 57 to 59. And the first articulated outbreak of HIV is in 1959, in the same city that he did those trials. And therein lies the most complex, hard to fathom, you know, conundrum, right? You have people trying to save the world, racing to save the world, trying to cure polio, and they unintentionally cause another pandemic potentially. And fast forward 75 years and it happened again. And. That is really what this story is about. I mean, you can't you can't play God with this stuff. I mean, these these things are there's there's no way to model all the blowback.

Tucker [00:27:15] Well, there are living organisms, for one thing. They're not static, so you can't fully understand them.

Jenner Furst [00:27:20] You can't. And that when you when you layer in arrogance and you layer in unchecked power and you layer in lack of transparency and oversight, the amount of damage that can be done from this work is exponential. It's exponential at that point. You know, when you have people who haven't been challenged for 20 years on their decisions and who have amassed so much power and just put yes men around them, that's what the idea was. That's what the niche was. You've got to remember, out of anyone in HHS, the overarching organization, Fauci was the most senior person in that entire organization. And in many ways, I think he was seen as the most powerful person in that organization. And so if you look at the story of Covid, you've got the CDC director, Bob Redfield, who's known Fauci since the Aids pandemic, and he is completely and totally marginalized and iced out of the conversation. And the entire time when Fauci is out in public, he's saying, I'm just following the guidance of the CDC. And anyone who had inside knowledge knew that Anthony Fauci was the one who had the most influence on that guidance and that the CDC director wasn't even in the room. And if you understand American bureaucracy, you know how these alphabet agencies work. And he he was it was almost strategic that his title was in such a buried organization in the middle of the stack. He'd have a lot more scrutiny if he was the head of HHS. But for 50 years, he's had a Title A in a buried alphabet organization institute within HHS under the NIH. After Cheney gave him these resources, it was understood that Cheney was the that excuse me, after Cheney gave Fauci these resources, it was understood in those institutes that Anthony Fauci was the most powerful person in the NIH in a direct line to the White House. He had he had he had security clearance. He had a line to Congress. The NIH director wasn't doing anything like that. The HHS director wasn't doing anything like that. Fast forward to Covid. The HHS director came in with the administration. Former pharmaceutical executive Alex Azar worked for Eli Lilly. Okay. And you've got Bob Bradfield, who's got a lot of integrity and believed that there was a lab leak. And within weeks of having conversations directly with Ford, she about that he found himself locked out of the room. And. It's very convenient that for she appear to be this little old man who is all about helping people. And these are scientists and science first. And he's a doctor even he never really cared for patients. We saw in Congress one of the questions that was directed at him during his hearing was, you know, did you treat any patients during Covid? Were you there? Did you intubate people? Did you watch them die? Of course he didn't. And. The truth about Anthony Fauci is, is it's a lot harder to to digest. And I think a lot of people were on to it for four years. But. Half the country believes he's a hero still. How did that happen?

Tucker [00:30:43] I've interviewed a lot of documentary filmmakers. I've never met one able to explain his subject matter as clearly as you are. So thank you for that. I just want to go back to something you said at the beginning. You said that Covid first made an appearance outside the lab in August.

Jenner Furst [00:31:02] So.

Tucker [00:31:04] Of 2019.

Jenner Furst [00:31:06] So there's two narratives. There's the narrative that we've been given for the last four years. And there's the actual fact pattern. And what is the closest to the truth that we currently have? And if you take it chronologically and you ignore the media that came out that announced the pandemic was happening and that the source was a white market. And you just look at the facts that even existed on American intelligence servers at the time, that there is more than enough proof and evidence to show that some sort of incident happened at the Wuhan lab in either August or September. There was a push to redo the HPC system in the lab. There was a transition from civilian to military control of the lab. There was a they erased their entire database of coronavirus samples of all their different collections of different coronaviruses that summer. All happening in sequence, all in the early fall, late summer of 2019, and then in October of 2019, there is a massive Olympic style event in Wuhan where teams from around the world are from armed forces, from around the world, like an American Navy or army. The Marines sent teams to Wuhan to compete, and this was an event that had been scheduled for years. It was a diplomatic event using sports and athleticism to bring different countries together. And at that point, Wuhan was partially shut down. That there is satellite photos of overcrowded hospitals, that there were drills happening at the airport that were pandemic preparedness drills and that they were called drills, but really they weren't. I think active response to an actual pandemic outbreak, an actual leak of a virus. And. This intelligence all existed before. The world military games and before we sent our armed forces to compete in this event and we allowed our allies to send their teams to compete in this event. And that event in October of 2019 was the original superspreader. And what people I think don't know about Covid, but that the researchers knew about Covid was that it was incredibly contagious and that it has a up to a five day dormancy period. And on top of that, a lot of people are asymptomatic.

Tucker [00:33:54] Yes.

Jenner Furst [00:33:55] So you could have an event like the world military games and knowing what we know about this virus now, by the time the virus was reported, the virus had likely spread around the world multiple times. And I know we all have friends who are like, well, I was sick in January and I was sicker than I've ever been. People say they were sick like that in October in places like Washington in November. Washington State.

Tucker [00:34:22] My wife got sick in November in Spain.

Jenner Furst [00:34:25] And so that narrative checks out. And all that happens after that, leading up to the point where basically the emergency room chaos of Wuhan leaks. There's a doctor who posts some stuff on WeChat. And he was immediately arrested and told to erase all of his stuff off of social media because this is the way that the Chinese government was trying to contain the story. And then when it became known that he was a doctor, was trying to help people, the Chinese ended up giving him an award. And a month later, he died. And there are a lot of other suspicious deaths in China of Covid. Yeah. And so. You know, I hope I'm explaining this in a way that's digestible. I find that when you when you look this in the face and you really see it, it's you have to remember that the rest of the world hasn't had that privilege or opportunity to understand how damning the evidence is and how ugly the story is and how many pieces of evidence there there have that that have existed for years now. I mean, there is a what drove me to make this film, I think, and fall into it was, okay, I could buy that. Anthony Fauci is is not honest about everything I could buy. The United States government does nefarious things and potentially was funding research. They shouldn't have been funding. I could buy that. The pharmaceutical industry would want to cover up a story like that because, after all, they were going to make billions of dollars from the countermeasure, the vaccine. What struck me the most was me as a conscious sort of anti-corruption looks, reads between the lines, doesn't trust. Media sources had existed in this bubble where even I was not aware that there was a grant proposal to do this work two years before the pandemic happened, and that it had been reported on for two years and I didn't even know it existed. Yes. And that was the most horrifying thing for me, was that I was just another sucker. You know, I'm an educated investigative reporter of sorts who, you know, doesn't, like I said, trust anything. I want to dig deeper. I want to go and see. And then I had lived in an algorithm that completely ignored. This fact. And it was horrifying to me. And I learned that papers that I've trusted my whole life, like the New York Times and the Washington Post were in some ways the largest distributor of state sponsored propaganda in the country, and that they were republishing studies that had no scientific merit and putting them on the front page, some of them before they even had peer review. Who was feeding them those stories. And then when a writer wants to write about something that isn't a bat, a pangolin or a raccoon dog, and that is more related to an apparent cover up and a lab leak, espionage, a bunch of things that are extremely newsworthy. Those writers were told they couldn't by their editors. But here I am, just a civilian like everybody else, believing that the news I'm getting is the news. And, you know, I want to give credit to people on the right who have broken with the mainstream media and live in a world where they feel like they need to question everything now. And I felt I already lived in that world and here I was completely seduced by. Mistruths, misinformation, propaganda for years.

Tucker [00:38:20] I know the feeling are very well. I know the feeling. Yeah. I mean, I didn't understand. I still don't understand a lot of it. I have many more questions for you, but I, I, I went on the basis of of instinct, and it was just clear that there was lying. There had never been an effective Covid coronavirus vaccine, and there been a disaster with the previous coronavirus vaccine. I remember that very well. And so I just thought, you know, I don't know what this is, but it doesn't smell good. I'm not putting it in my body, but I had no idea that it could be this dark. I agree with you completely. So. Let's just get back to. I just want to tie up one.

Jenner Furst [00:39:03] Yeah, I'm sorry.

Tucker [00:39:04] No, no, no, no, no, I.

Jenner Furst [00:39:05] I'm. I'm sorry for you, Ed No, no.

Tucker [00:39:08] We're not editing this. Okay. So you're telling a wonderfully coherent story. I really. I've never seen, as I said, a filmmaker explain a thesis this succinctly and in such a linear way. It's it's amazing. There's just a lot. But I just want to go back very quickly to the question of the MRI and a virus vaccine.

Jenner Furst [00:39:27] Train and slept.

Tucker [00:39:28] Yeah, right, exactly. Changing people's DNA. I mean that is that feels like an underappreciated headline that, you know, could have civil as it well have civilisational effects. Do we have any sense of what that means?

Jenner Furst [00:39:44] Well, you know.

Tucker [00:39:47] We don't say one of the smartest people I know. I was like, legit, much smarter than I am. Said to me, people would take the facts are different. I'm just telling you that. And I said, you know, you're a lunatic. And he said, They're different. I can tell. I can feel it. They're different and they're more passive, for one thing, and they're more likely to sort of go along with things that before vaccinated, they would have known were not true. It saps your will. It changes you. I noticed this and I didn't buy it. Really? Because how would a vaccine change you as a person? But I never forgot it. And so I do wonder, like, are there indications?

Jenner Furst [00:40:28] There's a lot of indications. But I'm going to reveal something that other scientists also believe that is is a lot scarier. And I think a lot more scary for folks that protested the vaccine, didn't put it in their body and think that they're better off. The virus. Does things like this to you? Yes. And everyone on the planet has gotten the virus multiple times and that the virus likely has fragments from HIV RNA. It has fragments from other viruses. It creates neurological damage. It creates damage in your heart, liver. It affects every part of your body, creates autoimmune disorders that are hard to even detect. There's so pervasive in people's life little things that if you look back, you'd be like, yeah, I sneeze about this thing. All the sudden I have allergies for this that I never had, or women who whose menstrual cycles changed not simply from the vaccine, but from the virus. People who still have long Covid right now. And long Covid is not some phenomenon that's, you know, obscure. It's it's directly tied to the synthetic nature of the virus.

Tucker [00:41:43] Did you get Covid?

Jenner Furst [00:41:44] I got Covid.

Tucker [00:41:45] It felt different.

Jenner Furst [00:41:47] Yeah, it was different. And you know what's interesting is I was I got the first two shots, and after that, I was like, this is, you know, I'm not boosting. I'm not doing it. This is gone too far now. And I believed that I was an asymptomatic person and that I wasn't really going to get Covid in the first place. I was going to be asymptomatic. And, you know, a lot of people are asymptomatic. And what's so troubling about the virus is it has such different effects for different people. And so for the most part, it strikes the elderly, the immuno compromised. But you could have a genetic composition that makes you die from lung complications and appear to be a healthy person. You could have a genetic complication that makes you die of a sudden heart attack. And even worse, you could have a genetic composition that now, two years later, you're learning that you have a rapid stage 3 or 4 cancer. And I say that because everyone can assume or accept that the vaccine could cause that problem. But we need to open up the idea that the virus itself can cause those problems. That is how ugly this viruses and the type of brain fog complicit. See, you know, we all got a head over that with this virus. I don't know if you remember when you got it. I experienced fatigue and brain fog like I've never experienced in my life. And there's certain people who now have.

Tucker [00:43:18] It sapped your life force, your will to live.

Jenner Furst [00:43:21] Your will to live.

Tucker [00:43:23] And I've been depressed one day in my entire life, 55 years of one day of depression. And it was when I had Covid.

Jenner Furst [00:43:30] That's impressive. I wish I had whatever you're eating for breakfast. Nicotine. Yeah. Good.

Tucker [00:43:37] But I never understood what people meant when they said, I feel depressed. I've been sad, of course, many times, which I think is healthy. But I've never had a feeling of hopelessness or true, bleak, nihilistic despair ever. Not one time in my life until Thanksgiving 2020, when I had Covid. And I couldn't believe it. I was worried.

Jenner Furst [00:44:00] Yeah. When I got it for the first time after being vaccinated. I said this feels completely different than any other virus I've ever had. I don't get sick much. I get sick like once every two years. And I was very sick. And then in the middle of the night I started having trouble breathing and I was like, Wow, this is scary. And this was all before I made the film. This was before I got the call to if I was interested in investigating for me. So within a couple of months, you know, before making this film, I had experienced Covid and really was the sickest I'd ever been from the virus. And I went and I was scared. So I got packs, love it. And I ended up getting better and then getting sick again about two weeks later. And it didn't really feel like a great remedy. It felt more almost psychological. Yes. That it's going to help me. And, you know, my symptoms reduced. But then I got sick again. And then something crazy. I'm a healthy 40 year old man and I don't have any other medical complications. And I have, as I said, a very strong immune system. I only get sick rarely once every couple of years. I got shingles right after I had Covid and took Pax. Love it. And I was like, how is this possible? I mean, yeah, stress, all these other things. But. I don't fit the sort of bill for that.

Tucker [00:45:34] You're not easy. No, no.

Jenner Furst [00:45:36] And I found out that to my cousins, who are the same age as me, had just gotten Covid and had gotten shingles. And I went online and I read that a lot of young people who get Covid are getting shingles after they get Covid. And I'm sure people listening to this are going to say, Yeah, me too. That's crazy. It's not a coincidence. This virus directly targets your immune system and does things that are hard to even compute. I mean, some of them are so varied in people, they're as varied as our DNA. And I had had that experience right before making the movie. So I was very, I think, open minded to the idea that everything, everything I was told was not necessarily the truth.

Tucker [00:46:23] Is because it was engineered and because genetics play a determinative role in illness and our response to viruses and our response to everything. Is it conceivable that. Whether by engineering or not, that certain genetic makeups are more susceptible to illness.

Jenner Furst [00:46:44] Yeah. And I think if the Chinese were actively constructing a bioweapon that you would look at America's general health condition and that this virus disproportionately affects people with diabetes, people with heart issues. We live on a very poor diet here in the United States. We're one of the richest, if not the richest country in the world. And the quality of food we're eating is is. It's the opposite of what we should be eating.

Tucker [00:47:17] Yes.

Jenner Furst [00:47:18] We're eating poison every day, and that's effectively permitted and lobbied for and we don't regulate it. And so if you look at that from an outside looking in and know that we're in such poor health, it would make sense to make a virus that targets a certain genetic composition by BMI. Sure. And, in fact, this was documented. This is there was intelligence briefs that came out, you know, after the State Department report, a year after the pandemic. And those intelligence reports show years of knowledge about the Chinese bioweapons program. And the question is, how did we develop years of knowledge about the Chinese bioweapons program? Because we were effectively funding and supplying the Chinese bioweapons program with our most talented scientists who were giving them technologies they didn't already have. And the exchange was so that we could spy on them. And if that isn't a completely insane proposition, I don't know what is. Yeah. And we knew at that point and maybe what caused such panic and alarm was that the Chinese were experimenting with things that were very, very questionable and dangerous. They had genetically engineered a human embryo so that the child was born immune to smallpox and polio. And I believe HIV, and that there were programs in place to understand the Chinese genome as it pertained to viruses to. Protect against viruses that were targeting the Chinese genome. And of course, if you look at the flip side of that would be to make viruses that do not target the Chinese genome. And I want to remind people.

Tucker [00:49:08] Makes it easier when you have an ethno state.

Jenner Furst [00:49:09] Sure. And it does. And, you know, I think we have to remember that we are the front runner of those technologies. So whatever the Chinese are doing. They're likely sifting that technology from us. And the United States is not off the hook. And crazy research and Anthony Fauci was pedal to the metal on this stuff for two decades.

Tucker [00:49:33] So do we know whether the virus escaped intentionally or by accident?

Jenner Furst [00:49:39] There are some breaks right now that are happening. And I think right when the new administration gets in and a lot of folks who are very concerned with this issue and passionate about exposing the truth, we're going to know a lot more really quickly. But there's some really concerning stuff that was just released that DOD officials had a briefing about the potential accident and the virus in October of 2019. So previously the intelligence was labeled sort of on analyze that it was just on a server and we didn't see it, which of course is extremely suspicious. I mean, we can see how many nose hairs someone has from a satellite at this point. I mean, the idea that we wouldn't be able to sift one of the largest, most troubling signals that you could ever see on an intelligence server and have an alert setup for it just is it's illogical. It doesn't make any sense. But we now know that they actually did meet and they did discuss this incident. And we also know that the DOD was very privy to a proposal to create this virus. It was called the Diffuse Proposal. It was submitted in 2018. It's taken four years for us to learn that 15 other U.S. agencies saw that proposal before the pandemic. Think about that.

Tucker [00:51:02] So, I mean, that doesn't prove but it certainly suggests, you know, an intentional act.

Jenner Furst [00:51:09] It does. And then the part that is also very troubling that people. Who whose anonymity I should keep. Who have security clearance and who did not disclose this to me in an very explicit way, but who signaled that they believe this to be the case is that American scientists using American research dollars at American institutions and when the federal government created a proposal partnering with a Chinese scientists at the Wuhan lab shooting. Lee who? Was also a Chinese military scientist.

Tucker [00:51:52] Yes, it was a military lab. Effectively.

Jenner Furst [00:51:53] It was a military lab. And that many of the scientists, even who were coming to the United States, had dual affiliation with the military program. And it is believed now that the Chinese funded the Defuzed proposal. What would stop them from funding the proposal? We gave them all the technology. We outlined what we were looking to do. Now, if you read that proposal, the cover to cover, you'd have to be really, I think, scientifically, you know, knowledgeable and astute to understand what they were trying to do. But the reality is what they were trying to do didn't make any sense in this proposal, was already subterfuge. They were trying to go and take a virus that had never been seen before from the jungle, from areas like Yunnan province, where these viruses can jump out of nature and cross over into humans, take them into the lab and put a foreign cleavage site into the spike protein and play with this part of the virus called DC sign, or this pathway which targets our immune cells and tells us not to fight the virus until it reaches our lymph nodes and that we're being infected directly in our immune system. And the proposal says how to do all of this. And the purpose of the proposal, apparently, is to see what the virus will do and that the thing that the take away at the end of the proposal is that that they want to make a bad vaccine and go and they want to spread in a cave so that a virus like this doesn't come out of nature. And so anyone who's really looking critically, knowing what we know now, that part seems like bullshit. And that the real purpose was to create a bioweapon that was very effective or to at least continue research on the spike protein and aspects of the spike protein that hadn't been resolved yet. And when I say that, is that the Nidhi and Fauci was funding research about fern cleavage sites and the spike protein because all of it was relevant to the MRSA vaccine because it was the part that they hadn't really figured out yet. The foreign cleavage side causes this toxic reaction. And there was research into it, and Ralph Baric had done research into it. This is stuff that predates the pandemic by years. And so. This proposal in many ways is probably a continuation of that type of work. But the proposal was also a cookbook on how to make a really dangerous coronavirus, one that would be devilish and one that would be worse than any that had ever been seen. And the logic, I guess, is, you know, we got to know what's coming and prepare for it. The irony is we weren't that prepared and a lot of people died. And the proposal itself says that effective countermeasures for a virus like this are currently chloroquine and remdesivir.

Tucker [00:54:46] You know.

Jenner Furst [00:54:47] Yes, the proposal in 2018 acknowledges chloroquine as an effective method for treating this type of coronavirus. And so you have all these different reasons why this proposal does not see the light of day for years. And thank God for a marine in DARPA who finds it on an. Area of of that server that is not classified, which makes one believe that someone in the classified area of that program wanted this to be exposed. And if Lieutenant Colonel Joseph Murphy did not expose this to the public, we may have never found out that this proposal existed. Mind you, 15 US agencies saw the proposal and it was pitched to them two years before the pandemic happened.

Tucker [00:55:40] The big question here is why would the United States be working directly with what most people assume as its main enemy, China, to create a virus that disproportionately hurts the United States and then once caught doing it, covered it up on behalf of China, and that coverup continues. There are no. I mean, the economic cost alone of the United States is hard to calculate, but it's, you know, biggest ever. And there's no call for reparations from China for this.

Jenner Furst [00:56:12] Yeah, I think it's it's it's a head scratcher. Right. But if you follow the money. This was the largest transfer of wealth in modern history. There was a moment in the pandemic when literally billions of dollars a second were moving from the poor to the rich and anyone under a certain income bracket, no matter how you cut it, they lost. Yeah. Yeah. Sharp loans.

Tucker [00:56:38] Do you own a house?

Jenner Furst [00:56:39] I did at the time, yeah.

Tucker [00:56:41] Yeah. Most people in their 30s now should. Or 40. But they're not buying houses now because there's a renting society post-COVID. Sure. And Neil completely transformed the social structure of the United States forever.

Jenner Furst [00:56:58] In ways that we don't connect as fluidly as we should. Right? So there is a nexus of tech companies, virus research, pharmaceutical companies.

Tucker [00:57:12] Biotech.

Jenner Furst [00:57:13] Biotech, but even straight tech. Right. Meta Biota is also owned by Google. Okay. And if you are going to have, say, an effective bioweapons attack, you're going to need to control information. And what I think a lot of people don't understand is the biggest client of all of these tech companies is the United States. Yeah. So before you see the announcement about the microchip or the new development, the US government has likely already purchased $510 Billion worth of the technology and had it a year before. And you don't know about that. And there's privileges that come with that, obviously, because you can leverage the government can leverage tech companies, as we saw with Covid and can access data. You know, and this is carryover from from 911, you know, the Patriot Act alive and well. You know, tech companies at that point, I think were primitive compared to what they are now. I mean, I don't even think in 2001, we understood how online we would be living our life, but Covid magnified that by ten. I didn't even know what Zoom was before Covid. I mean, Skype was a thing, and it was like, why? This is okay. Face timing, Like, sure. But like, our entire society moved to a remote existence. So that benefited the companies that created those technologies. I mean, Zoom stock went through the roof. It benefited all this entire ecosystem of data. And it also really benefited the intelligence community and others who could sift data that they weren't privy to. You and I are no longer having a conversation at a coffee shop. We're having one on Zoom. And, you know, that's one kind of. Gain small compared to the other gains. Let's just look at the pharmaceutical companies. Over $120 billion between all of them in the first couple of years of the of the vaccines going public and the stock market. You know, it was a perfect example of the elite, which I think for she really represents. And that is very common in D.C.. It doesn't matter what party. There are people like yourself who know D.C. know that when you make it to D.C., it's a party and there are people back home aren't invited. It's not about you being a Democrat. It's not about you being a Republican. D.C. is an insular system and that it is an elite system and that the most and, you know, deep pocketed lobbyist and people trying to influence policy forces from outside the country having, you know, offices there and of course, America's largest corporations, you know, engaging in and whatever they can to to have the law favor their interests. That isn't that doesn't favor any constituents. That doesn't have anything to do with what people voted on. And everybody's very collegial with each other. You know, there's a lot of mudslinging on social media and there's a lot of mudslinging on TV. But in the halls of Congress, everybody's very collegial with each other. Everyone knows the game that's being played. And I think that it's an illusion in the truth of what's actually happening most of the time is policies and actions that hurt the poor, that weaken the middle class, and that ingratiate and further the wealth of the wealthy. And I, I maybe that's my progressive, left leaning politics coming through. I don't consider myself a political being anymore. I think politics itself is sinister. I don't think you can be a politician in America and not be compromised in some way because at some point you've had to ignore a truth in order to promote yourself to get to the position you're in. But that's the system we created. And Covid was a microcosm of every weakness that already existed in that system. And so you have the worst event that ever happened. Yet our stock market was on a sugar high for years. People got rich during Covid just from their stock positions. Well, who has stock positions? Not the guy working at the sanitation. You know, not not that. Not the teacher. You know, it was great for wealthy people who my God, my kids can come with me on vacation. I can just take my work call from a golf course, and the nannies are covering it. If you lived in East Baltimore and you were African-American and you were you were you were in a school district that was struggling, you didn't even log on for two years. We lost a whole generation of kids to remote learning. The schools should have never been closed. And yet you brought up all these places in the country that had. Thank you, Dr. Fauci, signs. Well, what do they all have in common? These are upper middle class parts of the country. Poor people did not get anything from Covid. And if they continue to wave the flag of of who they believe their political hero is, guess what? There's no politician who's really doing much for the poor. There's some talking about doing stuff for the poor, but what actually trickles down to the poor is very, very small. And they are getting more and more disenfranchized. And when you talked about reorganizing society, that was one of the biggest takeaways. They are more and more disempowered now, the poor of America than they've ever been.

Tucker [01:02:43] Couldn't agree more. And there are a lot more of them than there ever have been ever in huge in our history. I'm very aware of that. So. So the question of why does Washington continue to cover it up? Might be answered just by noting because they're the beneficiaries of it and they've got something to hide. So, like, why would they?

Jenner Furst [01:03:05] It's working, right? It's working. Media went up. Tech went up. The stock market itself went up. You got an election with an incredible turnout.

Tucker [01:03:14] Yeah.

Jenner Furst [01:03:14] Right. I mean, what's better to get people to come to the polls than racism? You know, a vaccine, they should be taking some kind of regime change that's happening illegitimately. I mean, we have to remember that if you really take a bird's eye view of the system, it benefits both parties. It's not simply like the Republicans go and do a strategy that divides people and it just benefits Republicans. I agree. It's this is a self affirming loop.

Tucker [01:03:45] I agree. I mean, that's what the that's what in the end, the trans stuff does is it does serve both parties, actually. And I think the race hatred that has been imposed on us is not organic does the same. It's it's all intentional.

Jenner Furst [01:04:01] It hurts both sides to it hurts both sides.

Tucker [01:04:05] What destroys your society ultimately, But it definitely distracts people from, you know, other things you know, go hate each other. Leave us alone as we lose it.

Jenner Furst [01:04:14] This isn't new. This is Bacon's rebellion. This happened at the end of the 1700s. It's when black and white slaves united and took over Charlestown, Virginia. Okay? Because the British were giving them too much taxes and they wanted more protection against Native Americans. Very ugly story. They successfully took over a colony for two years. And the plantation class looked at that and said, we have a serious problem right here. Because if they realize who the real enemy is and who's getting rich off their backs, we're we're fucked. And the whole concept of chattel slavery and 3/5 of a man and white people being better than black people was perfected at that moment because it's incredibly effective at dividing the poor right down the middle. And look at when Martin Luther King got assassinated. He was at the point where he was focusing on wealth disparity and programs for the poor. That's when he got killed, not when he said that we're all created equal.

Tucker [01:05:18] Yeah. Yeah. And he's not, you know, the only one who got assassinated.

Jenner Furst [01:05:23] From a lot of people.

Tucker [01:05:24] Yeah. So I just want to touch on the public health response after the virus became universal. And you talked about why you think there was relentless focus on vaccines to the exclusion of other potential remedies, medicines, but masking, you know, physical separation of people. It was super obvious right away those were not effective, but they they were policy for years after that. What was that?

Jenner Furst [01:06:01] I think that. Foushee believed that whatever it is you tell the public, it should be simple and there should be no room for confusion about the mandate you're giving. What that leads to is the type of behavior where you're for something one day you're against it, the next day you don't have conclusive science on boosters for children. In fact, there's no science for boosters to children. They should have never been recommended. And yet they decided to augment that data and just make it simple for people. I mean, this is giving them the benefit of the doubt and not assuming that there is a more nefarious reason why these policies existed that were all about ultra vaccinating people constantly. You got to remember, these are not vaccines. They don't stop the spread of a virus. These are flu shots. And flu shots actually are way more profitable than vaccines. In fact, how many times you get a polio vaccine in your life, you get it once. Okay. Go up from there. You know, you get a tetanus shot every couple of years. When you step on a rusty now. Flu shots are marketed for you to get every year and they're marketed in a way that you should get them when you're healthy. It's not just elderly people. Well, Covid is even better. Right now, there's a scary virus that came out of nature that keeps morphing, you know, and and, you know, the first message is this is going to stop the spread. This is going to release the pressure and let us go back to our lives. That was a lie. And it was also a lie that we should have been locked down in the first place and that our schools should have been closed in the first place. That was a lie. So. When society is at the brink and everybody is going insane in their homes and can't get back to work, can't go to a bar, can't go to a baseball game. Everything about American society has shut down. The amount of leverage you have. To sell a solution that is completely black and white that, you know, this is going to do it. This is going to bring us back. And anyone who doesn't do it is the enemy. You know, that is, of course, really effective. It was there can be anything further from the truth. It didn't stop the spread. It doesn't stop you from getting Covid. It doesn't stop a lot of things. In fact, it self makes you sick. It in and of itself makes you sick.

Tucker [01:08:31] Do you think we're getting the outline of the public health? Disasters caused by the Covid virus and by the lockdowns. I mean, are we getting a sense of what the consequences are?

Jenner Furst [01:08:48] I mean, let's take masking and children. There's children don't really get sick from Covid. Sure, they spread Covid. But let's be honest about what Covid is. It's the second most infectious virus in history. Everybody gets Covid. Some people get sick. Some people don't get sick. Some people get really sick. Some people ge