Jonathan Martin on Biden Deliberating Pardoning Cheney, Fauci: That’s a Tough Call

GEIST: “Jonathan, as we consider all of this, let’s talk about your latest piece for ‘Politico’ —“
Martin: “Yeah.”
GEIST: “— titled, ‘Biden White House is discussing preemptive pardons for those in Trump’s crosshairs.’ In it, you write this, quote, ‘President Joe Biden’s senior aides are conducting a vigorous internal debate over whether to issue preemptive pardons to a range of current and former public officials who could be targeted with President-elect Donald Trump’s return to the White House. It’s according to senior Democrats familiar with the discussions.’”
Martin: “Yeah.”
GEIST: “‘The deliberations touch on pardoning those currently in office, elected and appointed, as well as former officials who’ve angered Trump and his loyalists. Those who could face exposure include such members of Congress’ January 6th committee as Senator-Elect Adam Schiff and former GOP Representative Liz Cheney.’”
Martin: “Yeah.”
GEIST: “‘Also mentioned by Biden’s aides for a pardon, Anthony Fauci, the former head of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, who became a lightning rod for criticism from the right during the Covid-19 pandemic.’”
Martin: “Yeah.”
GEIST: “‘The president himself’ — Jonathan continues — ‘who was intensely focused on his son’s pardon, has not been brought into the broader pardon discussions yet, according to people familiar with deliberations.’ So, Jonathan, what does this look like? What are you pardoning Anthony Fauci for? What are you pardoning Liz Cheney for, who’ve not been charged or convicted of crimes?”
Martin: “That goes to the heart of this deliberation, Willie, and why this is so delicate, because the White House counsel and a handful of senior White House aides, including Jeff Zients, the chief of staff, are having this debate right now in the West Wing, which is, do we leave these folks out in the cold and potentially expose them to Kash Patel’s FBI and Donald Trump’s White House for any number of charges or some kind of, you know, show trial to get a measure of revenge and, at the very least, make them pay six figures in legal bills to avoid such a case, or do we — do we offer preemptively pardons to people who there’s no proof they’ve done anything wrong whatsoever, and Willie may not want a pardon in the first place. That’s a real tough call, because if you don’t do it and Patel and company come after some of these people and you had the chance to give them inoculation legally, that’s a hell of a thing to regret. At the same time, do you want to pardon somebody like Liz Cheney or — or Anthony Fauci and suggest any kind of impropriety that could only add fuel to the Trump aggressors in the first place? It’s a — it’s — it’s a real tough nut.”