Ashley Allison Battles Betsy McCaughey on Equity: ‘Just Because You Talk So Much Doesn’t Make You Right’

Allison: “Well, I thought the Supreme Court said affirmative action wasn’t allowed, so — “
McCAUGHEY: “That‘s right. And when the court said that — “
Allison: “I’m not sure you’re argument is actually holding up, because that‘s not the law of the land anymore.”
McCAUGHEY: “That’s right. But Kamala Harris bashed the Supreme Court ruling saying, ‘No, no, she doesn‘t want colorblind society, she wants equity- She believes that if people started in a different place, they should be judged differently, and she wants minorities and women to be advantaged in job applications and other places.”
PHILLIP: “I don’t want to go deep into — I don‘t want to go deep into the DEI thing right now — “
NAVARRO: “Everything you are saying is really, honestly, deeply offensive and inaccurate.”
McCAUGHEY: “It’s a policy issue.”
NAVARRO: “First of all, I don‘t think that Kamala Harris wants her husband to be disadvantaged, her stepson to be disadvantaged. What you are saying, you are totally twisting her position on — “
SALAM: “You might want to look at her record in the Senate.”
McCAUGHEY: “Yes, you might want to look at her record.”
SALAM: “If you look at environmental justice for all, if you‘re looking at setting up this diversity commission around the CARES Act, trying to impose racial preferences for the Federal Reserve and Federal Reserve staffing, it’s very much — this is something where she was differentiated. She was in lockstep with Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders, but in this one domain, race-conscious policy, was a high priority for her. By the way, some people think that‘s great. But then lets honestly engage with what her policy prescriptions were and the fact that not everyone feels the way to you do, Ana. Not everyone loves these ideas.”
NAVARRO: “That’s absolutely, perfectly fine. Not everybody might feel the same way.”
SALAM: “I’m so glad that you’re okay with me disagreeing with you. That‘s great to hear.”
NAVARRO: “Listen, I disagree with me sometimes. I disagree with the position — “
McCAUGHEY: “We can be a love fest here and disagree.”
NAVARRO: “But, but, but — what Kamala Harris and folks who want equity, what they want is a level playing field, because they understand — “
McCAUGHEY: “No, it‘s not what they want. She says she wants equal outcomes.”
NAVARRO: “That’s just — that’s false.”
Allison: “Let me tell you what I want. What I want is — “
McCAUGHEY: “I’m not telling you what you want. But white women voters don‘t want that to happen to their husbands and sons.”
Allison: “You just said — no, that‘s not what they want. I‘m a part of that ‘they.’”
McCAUGHEY: “No.”
Allison: “And what I‘m saying — yes.”
McCAUGHEY: “We said, white women.”
Allison: “No, what I am saying right now is that I believe in equity. And when I say equity, I want everyone to have a fair level playing field. I do not want — “
McCAUGHEY: “That’s not the definition of equity. Take a look at Kamala Harris‘ — “
Allison: “If you would let me finish — “
McCAUGHEY: “ — 2020 campaign ad — “
PHILLIP: “Let’s let Ashley — “
Allison: “Just because you talk so much doesn‘t make you right. Okay? A conversation is that you listen, you actually hear what somebody says, and then we have a discourse. Just talking over someone doesn‘t make your point any stronger. Equity allow — we can say, we know that there are people who are — some disadvantaged, some white poor folks who are more disadvantaged than some people who are black middle class. We know that. But what equity is, is that — and I will just say, white women are the ones who have benefited the most from affirmative action, so maybe you‘re sitting at this chair because somebody thought you deserve to have an equal playing field — “
McCAUGHEY: “I don‘t agree with that.”
Allison: “You don‘t have to, but the facts are the facts. Like, you don‘t have to agree with it, but numbers are numbers and facts are facts, and we do know white women benefited more from affirmative action than even Ana, myself or Abby or you at this point. Equity is that we want an even playing field. We want everyone to have a fair shot — “
McCAUGHEY: “That’s an incorrect definition.”
Allison: “No, it‘s not.”
McCAUGHEY: “Yes, it is. Take a look at Kamala’s old writings.”
SALAM: “We can just go Harris‘ legislation. We can look specifically at what she proposed. Now, you were suggesting earlier on that a Supreme Court decision regarding racial preferences in higher education admissions applies much more broadly. If that‘s the case, that‘s first of all contested, but if that‘s the case, then much of what Senator Harris proposed during her time in the Senate would now be found unconstitutional. And again, that‘s very much up for dispute.”
Allison: “That‘s exactly what Project 2025 wants to do.”