We have lost our identity as Jews and human beings.” Ami Ayalon CNN

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4L4WdhcStQ
We have lost our identity as Jews and human beings.” Ami Ayalon comments on “selfie” photos of Israeli soldiers in Gaza and “the injured Jenin”

Amir Ayalon, welcome back to our program. Thank you. So can you explain what your Prime Minister has been saying to Israeli media about his view of a partial end to this? He said he's ready for a partial deal with Hamas for some of the hostages. Now, as far as I was aware, the people of Israel's first goal is to get all of the hostages back. The so-called Israeli plan that the Biden administration stated was precisely for that, or for all. Some people say, like the hostage families forum, they condemn it. They say he's just walked back from everything. What's a partial deal for the partial release of hostages? It's the only way for him to survive in power. That's it. It's the only way for him to make sure that the war will not come to an end. And this is what he's doing. I think that he really believes that we don't understand, but we do understand most of the Israelis. And today, our Prime Minister does not represent the people of Israel. In a recent poll, I have here the figures. 76% of Israelis believe that he should resign immediately. 65% demand elections today. And 74%, 75% believe that the only way to end this war is by a political achievement that will enable us to bring back all the hostages. Second, to end the war. And third, to create a regional coalition that will create a better reality and more safety to Israel. I'm really surprised by what you said, in that he doesn't want to end the war. Right. I mean, that sounds crazy to me. Why? Well, why? Why not? Israelis are being killed. Palestinians are being killed. Israel's losing its moral high ground. It's becoming a pariah. We call it toxic leadership. In academia, toxic leadership is a great charisma of a person who leads many people, but he leads them to the wrong place, to the end of Zionism. This is what he's doing. You have to understand that the first cabinet meeting, when we went to war, after the 7th of October, and we hate to go to war, because after the massacre, et cetera, it was a war of defense. But the decision of, do not discuss the day after. What is the meaning? I'll tell you something. In this war, when you send your people, your youngster, to kill, and many of them will die there, when you tell them that there is no political goal to this war, immediately what happens? The goal, the war becomes the end, and not the mean. Now, when the war becomes the end, the goal of itself, this is exactly what we see today in the Middle East. We know how to start wars. This government do not know and do not want to end this war. OK, I'm going to get back to Gaza in a second. But Netanyahu himself said in this so-called interview conversation that they might be prepared for another war, that the real so-called kinetic combat phase in Gaza could be coming to an end, but that they will move troops and forces to the north. That means Hezbollah. Are you prepared? Do you think this is going to happen, a full-scale war again, a la 2006, with Lebanese Hezbollah? Well, I think it is a real scenario. If we cannot change our perception of ourselves and the Middle East, it is a real scenario. Not because somebody want, because this is the only option. If we believe only in power, if we believe that war is not the last option, is the first and only option, this is what we should see. Our security doctrine should be based on two pillars. Yes, we should always have to maintain and to preserve a huge military power, but it will never be enough. Unless we understand diplomacy, unless we can speak in two languages, we should not be secure and we should lose our identity. And why has it taken eight months for the people like yourself? I know you've been saying it because you're out of, governing Shin Bet, et cetera, right now. Because I'm a minority in my people. Okay, you're a minority. But it's suddenly becoming out there, like the head of the idea has clearly empowered his spokesman, Admiral Hagari, who said last week that it's just throwing sand into the eyes of the Israeli people, saying that you can defeat Hamas. More and more people are beginning to say what you're telling me now, that there needs to be a day after plan. Yes, I don't blame, but I think that I expected more from our generals. I still remember during the first intifada, when Rabin gave us an order, instructed us to break the bones and some commanders did it, literally. And the chief of general staff told publicly to Rabin, Mr. Defense Minister, this is not a military phenomenon. This is a social, political, violent phenomenon. And I expected our generals to say it as early as possible. The moment that the cabinet accepted this decision, not to discuss the day after, it was clear that this is a never ending war and they should do it much earlier. Do you think, because you saw the justified horror that was unleashed over the weekend, when a picture of a wounded Palestinian, tied to the boat of one of your military vehicles, was driven out of the Jenin area and the Palestinians accused your forces of using them as a human shield. The Israeli military then shortly thereafter said, those forces violated orders and standard operating procedures. They'll be investigated. Not many people have faith in the investigation because it's very rarely those investigations happen. But what's happening? I mean, are you saying that this war without any political end is also causing this kind of stuff, including the selfies of your forces inside Gaza, taking pictures with the rubble, with this, with that. It's just not very nice at all. No, it's horrible. Do you feel they're losing their morality, their humanity? Not today. We are losing. We are losing our identity as people, as Jews and as human beings. Did you ever think you would say that you're the former head of Shin Bet? Yes. Did you ever think you'd get no points? Yes, I said it many times. And I said it in the Shin Bet when we tried to think of our code of ethics. I said, when we go to war, people do not think, when you send us to war, you do not send us to negotiate. You send us to kill. Now, we are born with the idea of you shall not kill. And now you tell me, okay, you go to war, kill all the enemies. Now, the idea that I have the right to kill. Now, with the time, it becomes a nature. We do not ask why. The only question that we ask when we go to war is how to kill. Whether we should use a knife or a gun or a missile. But it's become a second nature. And this is a danger in every war. And we saw it in all history. What Americans did in Iraq and Afghanistan, what we did in the past, unless we understand that every war must end. This is what we should see. We should lose our identity as democratic human beings. And we shall create a reality of never ending war.