Ancient Language Expert: recently investigated by the Vatican for demon possession...

...and portal opening
aired May 20, 2024 KONCRETE Podcast S1 E239
Watch this episode uncensored & ad-free on Patreon:

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Dr. Ammon Hillman earned his MS in Bacteriology and Ph.D. in Classics from the University of Wisconsin Madison, where he specialized in Ancient Greek and Roman medicine and pharmacy. His
first book, The Chemical Muse, was published with St. Martin’s Press immediately after his dissertation committee forced him to delete all references to recreational drugs from his thesis. Dr. Hillman was recently investigated by the Vatican for demon possession and portal opening while teaching as a professor of Classical Languages.

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EPISODE LINKS
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OUTLINE:
00:00 - Religious history
11:24 - Tal Megiddo excavation
16:39 - Original meaning of "Christ"
17:51 - Neuro Peptides
23:25 - Ancient pharmacology; John Scarborough
28:23 - Galen (Marcus Aurelius doctor)
33:44 - Drugs in ancient Rome
38:02 - Chemical Muse
47:11 - Greek Septuagint VS Dead Sea Scrolls
55:57 - Greek drug cults
01:03:08 - Solon & the creation of democracy
01:10:21 - The ancient Bible
01:16:40 - Greek came before Hebrew
01:19:08 - Interpreting ancient texts
01:24:15 - John Marco Allegro
01:28:39 - Why the Greek language is superior
01:33:59 - The "Purple"
01:38:23 - Christian Cults & Revisionism
01:46:49 - The Christ
01:55:52 - Zeus
02:05:59 - The Garden of Gethsemane
02:16:46 - The 'Burning Purple'
02:27:52 - Death of Jesus
02:41:31 - Using the human body to produce drugs
02:43:58 - The men crucified next to Jesus
02:52:08 - Demon possession & opening portals
03:02:03 - Alexander The False Prophet
03:08:46 - Lucifer: the dawn bringer
03:17:38 - Modern Enlightenment

Transcript

Religious history
0:00
I don't even know where to begin with this episode The Following guest Dr Hilman has a master's degree in
0:07
bacteriology a master's degree in Classics as well as a PhD in Classics until he was eventually investigated by
0:15
the Catholic church for demon possession which led to him being ejected by his
0:21
university now although I did read his book The Chemical Muse before we recorded this podcast it quickly became
0:27
clear that I was not prepared for what was coming and I'm still trying to process this
0:33
conversation weeks after we recorded it due to the provocative and unsettling nature of this episode it has been
0:40
heavily censored with parts redacted however we posted the full uncensored version in its entirety on
0:46
patreon if you want it you better buckle up folks please hammer that subscribe button below and enjoy the show
0:58
[Music] all right Mr alen Hillman you you are a
1:05
uh quite the controversial figure when it comes to religion Classics um ancient
1:13
texts you're you're a linguist you're a classicist what um what is your official
1:21
title Hil Satan Danny it's nice to be here by the way thank you so much are
1:27
you a Satanist am I a s Satanist oh God those people bother me so much I don't
1:35
no I I can't be a Satanist I'm sorry they bother you what bothers you what bothers you about them the whole
1:41
religious side of things yeah no no ah what am I well you
1:47
are a religious scholar right no I'm a classicist religious Scholars no we eat those for breakfast yeah no no I'm a
1:55
classicist what I do is what is a classicist it's somebody who is a
2:02
specialist in the translation of ancient Greek some people do Latin too but
2:08
that's you know Latin was for hot dwelling Romans you know I mean it's just not to the level that the Greek is
2:16
um the the unique word count alone is off the chart for Greek it is a superior
2:22
language that devoured languages and Antiquity it just ate them up boom boom
2:27
and this is normal in any um language over time any language over time right
2:35
some become strong and they become dominant others die out the Greek was
2:40
the Behemoth it was the dragon of antiquity modern Greek is nothing like
2:45
it how long how long have you been studying and reading and translating Greek uh for 30 years now for 30 years
2:53
now and um every classist knows it's our
2:58
honor and duty to guard the um the Muse
3:04
and to keep those ancient documents within the flow within time itself so
3:11
we're we're dragons man that's what classes really are unfortunately most classicists
3:18
today they're focused on things that are more to build careers and garbage essentially
3:26
so a lot of texts a lot of these ancient text that we've got they aren't
3:32
translated even I've got an entire book that I brought to show to you that is
3:37
from the 1800s it's Galen and these things are unrated it's
3:43
all in Greek I have the physical copy sitting in my bag wow so what pushed you
3:49
in the direction to be interested in this stuff was you did you have a
3:54
religious childhood or a religious upbringing or what got you into this
4:00
Jesus got me into this yeah I actually when you were how old oh God when I was
4:07
like 13 when you were 13 so you were religious when you were a child oh yes I was born again love Jesus Christ oh
4:15
Jesus yeah yeah um I used to teach you a mission are you kidding me I used to
4:20
convert people I used to have mostly drunks mostly drunks and I don't know we
4:26
were like a place for them to go and to sober up but they had to listen to my
4:31
crap oh excuse me they had to listen to my sermon in order to get that meal cuz
4:38
that's how we spread brother do you understand what I converted Souls into
4:45
Mission you converted souls to Christianity when you were 13 uh no I
4:50
was uh I started doing that when I was like uh 17 when you were 17 yeah I was teaching
4:59
Sunday school class too cuz their Sunday school teachers sucked really yeah how does a
5:06
17-year-old get to start teaching Sunday school were were your did your parents get you into this stuff oh of course you
5:13
know you know through the family and through some very intelligent teachers like Dr Jay Vernon McGee oh God beloved
5:22
Dallas Theologian you know what I mean Dallas Theological seminar I went there for
5:27
three months and their Greek program was so bad I said I went to the President of
5:32
University I said hey it's not up to stuff his name was walfred John walf and
5:38
I said your program isn't up to isn't up to Snuff what's the your Greek program
5:44
is terrible right so I went on to University to get a PhD and and so going
5:51
going back to the Early Childhood stuff when you were in your teens you said you were teaching Sunday school
5:58
yeah what what particularly were you teaching and did was there some point in
6:04
your life that led you to question the the teachings of the Bible
6:11
and the teachings of the church and everything you knew when you were young um I got there through
6:18
Aristotle so I saw here's what happened I saw how bad the standards were on the
6:24
Christian side for ancient Greek and I said
6:30
said I've got to follow a track to be able to to get there and um it went
6:37
through the Sciences it went through the sciences and I think what happened was
6:45
when I was 21 I just cracked I was reading Aristotle mhm and the pure
6:52
unadulterated Glory of his reason just and you're talking about Greek you're reading Greek yeah what yeah so how did
7:00
you learn Greek at 21 um because I went to I went to a special high school first
7:06
of all okay shout out to the people from Special Projects special projects that
7:13
was his first name everybody you had a test to get into it
7:20
right uhhuh um everybody that I was around is somehow involved in you know
7:26
military government you know stuff like that we won the Chess Championship two
7:33
years in a row mhm National Chess Championship right bunch of nerds right
7:39
total nerds so I knew I would be going um to
7:45
to learn about Jesus at a seminary someday because that was my bent I saved
7:50
people you know and you said when you were saving people you were saving alcoholics drunks
7:56
rather they were the easy peckins so what did they do they just came to you they said my life is terrible no
8:03
it's a mission so they check in for the evening they got to sit and listen to us preach then they give them dinner
8:10
they're mostly there to get fed you know right you know charity so to speak I was
8:16
the one who was saving Souls that was my that was my thing it was delicious have
8:22
you never saved a soul probably not no no M oh you should
8:28
try yeah have to learn you teach me yummy okay so you're doing this at TW in
8:35
your early teens saving souls in a mission at a mission it's called a mission okay um and then you decide in
8:42
your early 20s you're going to learn Greek at the the high school you're at no I started the that was my high school
8:50
um right after that I went to the University of Arizona okay and started
8:55
their Classics program there and I went through in three years and ate it ate it
9:01
up and went to T megiddo at the time and did a dig at T megiddo in
9:06
Israel so okay so you said you did a a Classics program at the University of Arizona when you when you first went
9:13
into that program in college what what was your goal what were you
9:19
looking for anything did you what what did you want to learn Jesus you wanted to learn about Jesus yes okay is that
9:28
okay yeah I think so yeah all right I think so I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this man I'm trying I'm trying
9:34
to understand your curiosity here that's I'm just trying to yeah I'm trying to dig deep into the psyche of of Amon
9:40
Hillman okay I love it um okay so that's when you learned Greek
9:47
yes was it hard to learn Greek uh yeah and you never stop you never stop I I'm
9:53
I'm not kidding you I can take a text right now throw it in front of any class
9:59
IST in the world and have them and say translate it and they'll be like yeah n no nus I can do that with
10:09
nus right now throw it in front of 98% of classes out there they'll stumble and
10:15
the ones who have done nonis they'll be able to get it why is nonis so hard to translate um cuz he's using an archaic
10:22
style he's trying to do something that they were doing a thousand years previous to him okay and he's putting
10:29
together together the longest epic M it's about dianis and a bunch of arrow
10:35
poison using women oh wow arrow poison yeah interesting hot hot stuff yeah yeah
10:43
it also causes sasis it's a drug yeah
10:49
okay um do you know what sasis is Sader Sader yeah what is Sader a Sader is a
10:57
guy who walks around with an constantly no constant how does he have an eruption
11:03
constantly constant unremitting erup H yeah the old Spanish fly in there oh
11:11
God keeps it hard all the time you can kill a person they say after seven days
11:16
you got to stop them oh really yeah wow that's what they said in Antiquity seven days I don't know how'd they find
11:23
out okay so going back to your college you're you're studying Greek and then
Tal Megiddo excavation
11:28
you said what point did you go to Israel and why did you go to Israel yeah right after my bachelors went to Israel and
11:35
stayed there for a year and worked on the megido T megiddo excavation what is that for people who don't know people
11:41
who don't know anything about the stuff no that's okay why would they it's the place of Armageddon so um it's a site in
11:50
Israel and it has a temple our team discovered the temple um floor that was
11:58
there it's a c canite Temple floor under everything and that dates back last time
12:04
I saw they thought that dated back to about 4,000 BC so and I don't use the um about 4,000
12:13
BC so um it was a momentous wondrous um excavation and I'm
12:21
proud to have been part of it yeah what kind of stuff did you find I found a chicken uh chicken yeah I
12:29
found a chicken cuz I was digging the old French dump he what they found that was so important was the floor of a
12:34
Canaanite Temple were these Canaanite priestesses in 4,000 BC where all the
12:40
power where all the authority is oops is uh um it's there yeah tell megiddo there
12:49
it is I'm sorry I'm distracted that's it yeah tell megiddo um and it's a wonderful site and
12:56
I tell you I slept the the most interesting part of the story is I slept in the vineyard of
13:03
Jezebel so what did you learn from the stuff you found at Telmo um the the
13:09
earliest occupation was probably by these Canaanite populations they're which was
13:16
4,000 BC yeah they're um they've got a circular dance
13:24
floor for them to be worshiping whatever divinities it is is that they worship
13:30
and these are these are like the Phoenicians and the it's all up and down the coast Jezebel was a Phoenician
13:36
princess baby you know what I mean so they had a circular dance floor yeah
13:41
right right is that un impressive very impressive for 4,000 years ago it's very impressive well move
13:48
on because when I was in the vineyard of Jezebel these these guys that went nuts they got up at night and they sat there
13:55
and they talked and they told me what was going to happen to me what they say was Happ to on successive nights they
14:02
said a troop of demons will assist
14:08
you to bring the Antichrist yeah who said that um two
14:15
guys on two successive nights nuts there were people with us at the on the
14:21
excavation right we we're working during the day and in the evenings we're
14:26
sleeping and people are waking up and they're sleep and talking to me mhm and
14:31
then going nuts is that Thunder yeah this is amazing we're doing this podcast in the middle of the thunder storm yeah
14:37
we got a storm so these guys told you what about the Antichrist they said I would be protected by a troop of demons
14:45
a troop of demons yeah and they said it on successive nights so like the first
14:50
guy mosha he went totally nuts right he sat up in bed 2: a.m. started talking to
14:57
me like a pu it the next morning runs off Boom the
15:03
head of the kibuts where we're staying comes to me she says what's going on this said off he goes I don't know right
15:10
the next night I didn't think it was OD I love Jesus at this point mhm I didn't think it was odd but
15:18
on the next night the dude that they replaced him with he did the same thing
15:23
he sat up in bed he gave me the same message you'll be protected by troop of
15:29
demons a troop of demons for what purpose to bring the Antichrist what did you make of that um I thought he was
15:36
nuts the first time he said it and the second time he said it I thought wow this place is like what happened is
15:43
there's some kind of material in the ground or something out here making these people crazy you know what I mean making people not the head of the kibuts
15:50
came to me and she said what's going on and I said what do you mean she said what's going on two of your roommates
15:56
have gone totally nuts I said h if I know yeah yeah what what do you what would
16:04
you expect me to say when they when they claimed that I was able to levitate through doors at the University and they
16:11
had a they had a uh inquiry as to my state of demon
16:17
possession when was this uh when I worked for St Mary's University so this is much later yeah okay let's try to
16:24
stay on track let's try to stay like in a wow
16:29
you see what happens are you sure you're not the Antichrist there's just a raincloud that follows them around
Original meaning of "Christ"
16:39
everywhere yeah what is the Christ what is the Antichrist what is the Christ if
16:44
you have to know the Antichrist you have to know the Christ right it's a Greek
16:50
word for for applying a drug to your
16:56
eyes so that they may may be open that's what the Christ means in
17:04
Greek yes it's from the verbo to be stung by the
17:10
gadfly huh who's the gadfly who was the godf yeah I don't
17:17
know Socrates said he was it's a thing they had going on
17:22
remember they have ories and stuff like that so MH you better buckle up right but does that have to do with the
17:30
G I mean you think o oh no oysters to be stung oh it's a state of
17:38
mania they is they call it in Greek oyr Mania okay to be in an altered state
17:47
right right right okay anyways let's go back to um you're
Neuro Peptides
17:52
in you're in Israel right and you're doing this escavation you're finding all this stuff these crazy people come up to
17:59
you telling you that you're protected by a troop of demons yeah um how long did you stay there and then what did you do
18:05
after that a year and a month okay and then I decided okay I've maxed out
18:10
what's my interest here and okay came back and enrolled in a um another
18:17
program which ended up a master's program ended up sending me to a
18:22
lab where I cut brains cut brains yeah okay what were you cutting brains for
18:29
identify neuropeptides oh okay yeah um on the science I want this is your study
18:35
in bacteriology no it hadn't gotone to the back te but it's what led to the back te um I wanted to bolster my
18:43
science okay education so I did a lot of like neuropeptides what's a neuropeptide yeah
18:50
it's a it's a peptide that is active in the brain as part of a signaling system
19:00
so we talk about communication between the hypothalamus and the pituitary and how puberty is regulated
19:08
that was a big one we were looking for the peptide that um brings on premature
19:16
puberty do you hear that that's uh those are souls swirling
19:22
around outside dude that's loud yeah is that rain yeah rain or wind blowing the
19:29
rain godam god um so the neuropeptides that
19:35
were responsible for puberty yeah the onset of puberty what made you so interested in that um they had a grant
19:42
for it wasn't mine they had a grant you just got thrown into it it's for premature yeah it's for uh people who
19:48
have early onset puberty okay is there a problem with that there's a well hell yeah there's a problem with that what's
19:54
the problem all that stuff is timed with growth so if you're is it peptides go
20:01
astray in the brain but what makes the peptides go astray is there some sort of external influences oh we didn't know at
20:07
the time what it was that's what I was doing was this is where I am in the experiment you know it's not experiment
20:13
it's just investigation but you're tagging you take an antibod conjugated
20:19
substance and um you it's either something that fluoresces or it's a diee
20:25
of some sort right and you localize where these peptides are in the brains
20:31
of these things that you sacrificed yeah we animals yeah we used
20:38
to drill holes in animals heads mhm and then put in a little catheter little
20:44
tube and then you can insert a substance anything you want anything you could
20:49
insert orange juice if you want but we would insert substances and then take
20:55
another collector and see what the hyp Thalamus did and it was a beautiful it was a
21:03
beautiful beautiful finding um because they were mapping at the time people were mapping how the
21:10
brain works and this is how they were figuring out what the hypothalamus does yeah absolutely yeah that's interesting
21:16
stuff yeah I was proud to be a part of it it was a good good education how long did you do that stuff how long did you
21:21
do those studies a couple of years a couple of years uhhuh yeah I taught into chronology too oh did you really well
21:28
everybody in the grad program had to you taught Endocrinology yeah uh-huh yeah I
21:35
did the brain part of it so um and you had to graduate students had to like the
21:41
hypothalamus and the pituitary and the the third ventricle man you know what that is what's the third ventricle it's
21:47
an open space in the middle of your head really and it's filled with a fluid it's
21:54
the Water of Life The Water of Life yeah and this fluid has people in ancient times try to drink that Water of Life
22:00
from people's heads you know they did do you want to see the
22:07
text I'm sure the text can verify
22:13
this baby brains man baby brains o yeah
22:18
no they used to bleed them too so is this what is this Steve what are we looking at this is this is the
22:26
third ventricle beautiful Okay the third ventricle is it just does it say it's just liquid in there or what yeah it's a
22:33
pristine pool it's beyond what is the purpose of it what is it how does what is the function to carry the
22:40
messengers that's the scientific uh description of what it
22:45
does yeah actually it is yeah really yeah huh yeah cuz it's communicating
22:52
with all the tissue that um it's it's overlapping it's communicating M okay
22:58
that little special area of the brain yeah there's the three ventricles right
23:04
is like pristine that has to be the purist totally beyond the barrier for
23:11
any sort of infection right if you've got an infection there you're you're dead really yeah wow
23:18
yeah that's interesting yeah lots of brains I caught up lots of brains so um
Ancient pharmacology; John Scarborough
23:25
at what point in your life did you start writing this Infamous dissertation that
23:31
got suppressed by the heads of the department in Classics when you wrote when you started writing about the use
23:37
of drugs and Antiquity that's a perfect from that exact point okay um I picked up some a
23:45
professor professor RoR came to me Professor RoR yeah Frank University of
23:51
Wisconsin um yeah at the time he was at University of Wisconsin I think he went out somewhere in California mhm um but
23:59
um Frank RoR and he said hey he said I I know you're when I was on the science side he said I already had him in
24:06
Classics right so he knew what my interests were and he said here we have a whole bunch of documents that are
24:12
nobody's ever translated from Greek have at it it was like a you know the greatest where do you find those
24:17
documents the everywhere they've been for the last 2,000 years where just
24:23
sitting there where on his desk in the libraries oh really yeah nobody reads
24:28
them classes don't do it you know why why cuz they're hard they're hard cuz these Greeks are smart they're smart in
24:36
these pH how many how many classes do you think know pharmacology yeah I have no idea
24:43
probably not many zero zero zero yeah they don't do the medical stuff it's a
24:48
shame it's a shame so I well that's just like any field right A lot of people who are experts in certain fields or certain
24:54
disciplines they don't have a uh a wide variety of of of skills or disciplines
25:00
as well they're typically just in one lane you got to talk to a lot of people yeah or you got to be a jack of all
25:06
trades interdisiplinary interdisiplinary yeah that's a good word love that you keep one foot on either side of the
25:13
fence you know what I mean yeah yeah so I went to the University of Wisconsin
25:19
Madison to work with the country's best um medical
25:26
historian who was and what's his name again again John Scarboro John Scarboro
25:31
yeah and he had a knowledge of the um medical side as well okay um but he was
25:38
also a great Byzantine he did a ton of the Byzantine sources he was one of the
25:44
translators of the Greek magical papy so that in it's a big deal it's a
25:53
big deal come on can you explain what the magical papy is for people don't know this episode of the podcast is brought to you by mudat mud water is a
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27:05
of great works it's all about some of the dirtiest cult magic stuff you've
27:10
ever seen people who say they know gnosticism they haven't read this thing and in Greek they don't know what
27:16
they're talking about um this is the one where we get the uh the um all the body
27:23
fluids that are being used for the sake of medicine okay and it's in this papy
27:29
yeah yeah yeah who knows One Source One Source we'll get into this more later um
27:36
let's let's so so let's go back to uh so studying with him yeah studying and your and developing your uh he gives you
27:43
these papers these uh texts to translate yes and this is when you first
27:49
discovered the use of drugs or the idea of drugs being ubiquitous and
27:56
Antiquity yeah I was studying ancient pharmacology that was what my area was
28:02
that's what I was forging okay and you already knew about Galen right you'd already been studying Galen yeah and no
28:08
and I had been to a I had been to a conference in uh England and the London Times said wow this guy's work is the
28:16
last Wild Frontier of Classics you know um and they're right cuz nobody does
28:22
this stuff MH nobody for people also give to give some more context to people who are listening who is Galen can you
Galen (Marcus Aurelius doctor)
28:29
explain who Galen was yeah Galen is a second century physician of uh he works
28:36
for Marcus aelius the emperor and he's probably one of the greatest intellects of Western Civilization definitely he
28:43
was a he wrote thousands and thousands and thousands of pages and probably 10%
28:51
of it has been translated if that if and nobody goes near the pharmaceutical stuff now in 2013 I saw for the first
29:00
time um a dissertation was written in which the person translated galen's thec
29:07
um to piso the what's a thec a thec is a multi-drug component um um that's used
29:15
to balance a poison or deathbringer they
29:20
called them to balance a poison or deathbringer so like an antidote yeah an
29:26
ant exactly an antidote but they they they called it a a galenic reaction
29:31
unrelated to the reason of galin oh okay a galenic reaction that's reaction
29:36
that's to bring the balance of the one that can kill you with the one that can
29:43
keep you alive bring those together that's thec baby wow interesting what's
29:48
the point of that um to die and to be born again die and to be born again wow
29:56
okay yeah do you want how much gay have you read uh considerable yeah considerable how many give me an idea
30:02
like how many pages oh god um thousands thousands yeah and he's written how much
30:09
oh 22 volumes at a thousand each so somewhere around 22,000
30:16
pages and and where does all this literature exist like where is it being
30:21
held it's held currently in a book that's sitting out in my you have all of it yeah I have I got it from John
30:28
Hopkins wow yeah cuz Professor Scarboro was in with all the book Traders right and they were like oh [ __ ]
30:35
Galen has become has become available okay can I run out and get gayen and
30:42
show you gra go grab it he's got an original galin book here he comes with
30:47
the original original 1840s this is from 1840 yeah
30:54
what's the date say on it 1827 there you go Opa Omnia [ __ ] 14 1827 yeah I was off a
31:03
few years so so open it up and you'll see the it's basically um Danny it's a
31:10
medical text for physicians in 18 you know in the early 1800s wow right what
31:18
are they studying they're studying Galen you ask me who Galen was guess what he's the dude who dominated medicine from the
31:26
second century when he lived and until until that book that you're holding right this is the last set
31:32
you're talking the second century BC right yeah no no anod Domin oh okay okay yeah Marcus
31:39
aelius yeah this is his physician by the way he says in here that Marcus aelius
31:45
is a total dope head what language is this Greek on the top Latin on the bottom and the Latin translation is
31:53
garbage right wow man this is wild hold
31:58
yeah now what you're holding there is Volume 14 of a 22 volume set from John's Hopkins as you can see
32:06
those BS put their Mark all over it by the way isn't that beautiful paper look at this look at this everybody that's
32:12
centuries old centuries think about it look at that right oh it's gorgeous it's
32:19
a work of art it's a work of art but how many pages is this 700 800 Pages 800
32:25
Pages now think about um it's volume uh 14 which is one of 14 books
32:33
yeah it's one of 22 and but it is uh 14 and 14 is all about the pharmacology of
32:39
the antidotes and nobody looks into that stuff and gayen says Marcus rius is toal
32:46
dop head he's on way too much what was he on specifically um the thec It's a
32:52
combination of plants and animal products that is meant to balance a c
32:57
cult ritual drug called the Black Death the cult ritual drug that was called the
33:04
Black Death yeah this is from Nero's library right okay Nero has his arch
33:14
physician get this formula from the East for the
33:19
theak the theak is meant to balance the cup of Lady Babylon
33:28
okay let's let's go back to I think I feel like we're starting to go down a rabbit hole we're it's going to be hard
33:33
for us to get out of yes so I want to make sure we we we explain uh this story
33:39
in a in a linear fashion so people can follow it and don't get lost um you're
Drugs in ancient Rome
33:44
studying galin right and you're you're working on your dissertation and and what happens next
33:53
oh so for my dissertation I did it on Roman Pharmacy okay right Roman Pharmacy
33:59
Roman Pharmacy nobody's written a work on Roman Pharmacy and I had already done a translation and commentary for a
34:06
master's thesis that's usually what they give to doctoral students I had done one for a master's thesis and I was like I'm
34:12
not doing that again so I'm going to write a text that's just kind of a general um Roman Pharmacy text so that
34:19
people can learn about drugs in the ancient world and the committee told me
34:24
take out the chapter uh on recreational drugs or we're not going to give you um
34:30
the degree and um you had so you only had one chapter that was about recreational
34:36
drugs yeah yeah the rest were all medicinal oh wow yeah but didn't you say
34:41
that they didn't distinguish between recreational and medicinal is that right no that's exactly right we were
34:47
distinguishing we do it now but they didn't back then no back then things that you and I would call recreational
34:53
they didn't consider recreational they considered medicinal m right so curing depression is a medic
35:03
medicinal process how long did you spend on this dissertation oh couple of years couple
35:10
of years yeah yeah and then um so there was one specific moment a date where you
35:16
had to go in to I guess receive your judging on it or
35:22
get graded on it or get a feedback on it I have no idea how this process works you're going have to walk me through it
35:27
yeah so you write your dissertation and you take it before your defense before your defense okay yeah and your
35:33
committee there is a group of professors and usually there's one from outside the department just so the university stays
35:40
kind of impartial you know what I mean and um so it's a committee of
35:47
professors anyway you present your dissertation to them and then they either tell you you you're terrible you
35:54
don't they tell you you're terrible um yeah or uh they pass you and you get
36:01
to walk out and say I'm a I have a doctoral degree so they told me at the
36:06
end they're supposed to give a thumbs up or thumbs down but they didn't give me anything and I was standing there looking around what right and now um and
36:15
they uh I met with the head of the department and was told um you have to
36:21
take out this SE the chapter on recreational drugs and you have to scrub any references to recreational drugs and
36:27
the rest of the work and you're fine yeah what did you what
36:32
did you what was your response um she said the
36:38
Romans just wouldn't do such a thing this is the head of the department and
36:43
by that time I had seen so much stuff the Romans were doing I was like oh my
36:48
God I understand what's going on they're they're building a ceiling that we can't
36:55
get Beyond m that doesn't exist we go we should be able to go right through that
37:00
thing with these texts we can do that anyhow so I took the material and I sent
37:06
it to McMillan I just I just scrubbed it and then I sent it to McMillan and um they accepted it Thomas
37:14
dun accepted it uh and it was fantastic McMillan is what it was uh St Martin's
37:22
press Publishing Company it used to be S yeah publishing company St Martin's press yeah okay yeah yeah and that's
37:28
what became the book the famous book that you created the chemical Muse correct correct and and once you scrub
37:37
you you decided to scrub the chapter from your dissertation and any any sort of reference to drugs whatsoever and
37:43
then they accepted it and gave you your your PhD any any references to
37:49
recreational drugs recreational there a whole bunch of drugs all over it right for healing right I mean drugs that you
37:56
use in an athesia right right right right you know what did they use you know fantastic what was the response
Chemical Muse
38:04
after your book The Chemical Ms was published um the brenmar classical
38:11
review came out which is the big reviewer um and a European Professor uh
38:18
French um came out and said this book is dangerous he said it shouldn't be read
38:26
at any University anytime ever and he was like what year
38:31
are we talking oh this was uh
38:36
2008 wow 2008 okay and um so uh it was
38:43
it was roundly um ignored you know put into the
38:49
the guy said this guy obviously has a drug agenda was like oh no let's just talk
38:55
about the drugs cuz they don't read these texts now that same uh journalist
39:00
has gone and talk to um the aforementioned brenmar classical
39:06
revist and now they're writing a book and about Shamanism all the same stuff
39:13
all the same material it's cuz they didn't know it MH you were the first one to sort of uncover the stuff and make it
39:19
po make it known I was not um the first I would say I was the one who took it
39:24
and ex uh took the big picture of it I was the first one to bring the science
39:30
side who the on over Carl Rock Carl rock yeah yeah no cuz he said there look he
39:35
said they're using something in the elisan Mysteries right he was already looking
39:40
at he didn't have any problem with the concept that he coined
39:46
entheogens right these are substances that are in Theos that bring that Divine
39:51
being into you mhm it's a whole class of drugs they were using excuse me they
39:58
were using um have you ever had any conversations about Carl rock with the
40:03
stuff that you discovered and this like your the stuff you talk about in the chemical Muse yeah I've had the pleasure
40:09
once the chemical Muse was published um they sent it to Dr Brook for um for you
40:18
know consideration you know cuz he's the he's the only one who had been on the
40:23
list of people who had talked about drugs and he got shamed he got completely
40:29
shamed I um well look it seems like this it seems like this idea and this the
40:35
idea of drugs being used back then is becoming more and more accepted I mean you got people like Brian Mar rescu and
40:41
Graham Hancock you know I think Brian's new book's called or his latest book is the immortality key where he talks about
40:47
the the mystery Cults of ucus and the Urgot yeah um I know
40:53
Brian oh really yeah how you how did you guys meet um Professor rck sent sent him
41:01
to me to get the medical stuff so you guys spoke about when he
41:07
was working on this book we had a couple of interviews before when he uh came up with the
41:13
idea okay gave him a couple of interviews about what what the sources are and what the extent of the stuff is
41:20
he um he said do you mind if I um put mention you and Joe Rogan
41:27
and I said uh yes um go ahead and do that but if you do you have to mention
41:32
that Jesus Christ was arrested in a public park with a boy at 4:00 a.m.
41:37
screaming I'm not a trafficker you made sure he you told him he needed to say that he had to say that exact phrase and
41:44
so so he [Laughter] didn't so he chose so he chose yes yeah
41:53
right right look I mean it was really interesting to me me reading your book and I was I was really gripped by the
42:03
what you've sort of uncovered which it makes a lot of sense
42:09
when you really think about it that life back then life in in Antiquity was
42:17
terrible uh and and people didn't die from heart disease and from diabetes and
42:25
from old age like they do today they died from hand toand combat and plagues and famine yeah and to live back then
42:33
was a miserable existence for the most part infant mortality was what like
42:39
50% and they needed these drugs just to get through the day and the warriors
42:45
fighting these wars they needed to take these drugs to suffer these these insurmountable wounds they would have to
42:52
they would have to suffer in battle um can you talk a a little bit to that and
42:58
to to like some of the details that you want to cover in your book about what life was like and and how hard it was and and the amount of death and plague
43:05
and famine and and how these drugs were used to uh to curb these sort of
43:12
ailments yeah yeah the best way is to resurrect the soul of
43:18
hypocrates and to look at the works that he wrote uh called the epidemics in
43:23
which he describes all the diseases that people are getting what they're suffering from all the
43:30
ailments oh my God you know what herpes does when it goes untreated no oh
43:35
hypocrates has descriptions of it they call it herpes because their word Heron
43:41
is there word for a snake or something that slithers something that crawls cuz that's what herpes does when it goes
43:47
untreated it crawls all over you it rots you thank God I don't know I don't know
43:53
about that you get descriptions of this kind of stuff you see life on a different you
43:59
know at a different level onethird of women were having death as a side effect
44:04
of birth onethird of women were dying from child birth the problems are bleeding right right they're constantly
44:11
trying to control bleeding and whatnot yeah with drugs with
44:17
drugs miserable and you know about a third of the population of the youth
44:22
from in the late teens that's getting eaten off that's getting eaten off they become
44:29
soldiers and certain number of those get sacrificed right there's a it's not a
44:35
cheapness they don't have a there isn't a sense of futility um it's looked at as a
44:42
sacrifice and what what point in history are we talking about oh God far back is the Bronze Age all the way down to about
44:50
byzantin the bronze AG is what more than older than the fifth century yeah yeah
44:56
oh I'm sorry um um you know in the best time of the Bronze Age it was late Bronze Age around 1200 to 1100 1 1200 to
45:03
1100 that's where some of these oldest text that you've read come from yeah the myy and linear be stuff comes from like
45:11
1600 um BC which is that's spectacular they've got dianis and all that stuff I
45:17
worked with M Bennett who was a Navy Navy cryptographer who studied um who
45:25
cracked Linear B and um in it we
45:30
have the name diosas he's the son of Zeus the
45:38
Thunder and um it was a gorgeous gorgeous world to be able to follow that
45:46
but that's where the Greek can take you sign up for courses now well let me ask you this how and this is like this is sort
45:54
of like broad Strokes questions yeah what what um how did your development of
46:01
your understanding of these ancient texts and and reading this ancient Greek and even the Hebrew everything that
46:07
you've read how did that change your perspective on religion and Christianity
46:13
in Catholicism you you were raised what Christian or Catholic I love Jesus man I
46:18
was I don't know what was your family Baptist Baptist okay okay yeah so
46:23
so once you start to understand the history and the texts how
46:30
did this change your worldview of religion um and and and what sort of
46:38
like misconceptions did you have that were Shattered by this understanding I had a
46:45
long-term uh relationship with a muse so the whole time that I'm
46:51
developing this educationally oh look I was just going
46:57
to bring the Antichrist oh it's happening guys the
47:02
Antichrist is coming everybody tornado warning don't bring him yet okay hold
47:10
him off okay hold off Zeus these
Greek Septuagint VS Dead Sea Scrolls
47:15
texts that you're that you're reading and that you're translating are these the
47:21
original original original sources of of religion of Christian and and
47:27
Catholicism and baptism and all this stuff is this like The Originals yeah this is the language that held that um
47:35
all of those texts so the New Testament it's all written in ancient Greek right
47:42
um the what you call the Old Testament I'm going to shock people with this one what you call the Old Testament which
47:48
people say is written in Hebrew right which is not a language that I am work
47:55
with I had to take a little bit of modern in Hebrew when I was there just because it was part of the you know
48:02
education and um but the text that you think is written in Hebrew is not it's a
48:09
Greek text that's written in the 3 Century it's a helenistic text called um
48:15
that you call the Torah or the Old Testament that is not an original Hebrew
48:20
text now how can I say that what we have is the septu agent that I'm talking
48:26
about it's the Greek Old Testament do you understand Greek Old
48:31
Testament mhm okay it's the oldest form that we've got okay okay the whole big
48:38
deal about the Dead Sea Scrolls was they said huh we finally have some Hebrew
48:43
because none of it survives right Hebrew is only an eight um is only an 8,000
48:49
word ancient Hebrew 8,000 word uh unique word count language okay which puts it
48:55
in the realm of something you could expend by the end of your breakfast
49:01
8,000 words that's not a lot okay and the Dead Sea Scrolls were all in Hebrew the Dead Sea Scrolls were fragments in
49:07
Hebrew and fragments in Greek and everybody assumed oh this is the original in Hebrew right because now
49:14
we're following church history you and I live in a time in the Stream the time stream we live in a time when we think
49:22
that there was an original Hebrew text of the Old Testament but there wasn't it
49:28
doesn't exist right and to show people the Greek now what's the proof what's
49:34
the proof the proof is when you read the septu agent that is the Greek
49:39
Old Testament M it is does not read as a translation it reads as an original it
49:46
uses Greek idiom it's like a fingerprint on a language and it's got Greek how can you tell it read Greek
49:52
fingerprints H how do you how do you discern the difference whether be an original or a translation oh you
50:00
can tell it's easy to tell because colloquialisms don't translate right and so it's like tagging
50:08
it so how do you you're testing this language to see if it's to see what it's ages okay so you tag it with certain
50:15
certain things and one of them is colloquialisms right the other one is technical
50:21
vocabulary you cannot translate from a higher technical degree to uh excuse me
50:27
you can't translate from a median technical degree to a high technical degree okay you can go down the slope
50:35
you can take something that's not technical right um and make it more
50:41
technical right you force that you know you can't drift Upstream right right
50:47
right so the or if the original the original is going to have the highest degree of technicality yes so the the
50:56
Dead Sea Scrolls were not the highest degree of tech of tech of technical no writing they were lower they were lower
51:03
than the than the Greek uh what was the word the the the book you talking about
51:10
they're Hebrew back translations because at the time the Dead Sea Scrolls they
51:15
are Hebrew back translations so they took the Greek of what specifically they took the Greek and they said how do we
51:21
translate this into Greek okay that's why you lose all the technical terms cuz didn't have them in their
51:28
language and you and what I'm asking is what were God that's crazy this is the first
51:37
podcast I can I I can remember where the lightning has been this crazy this loud so the Dead Sea Scrolls came from where
51:43
what were the sources of the Dead Sea Scrolls so those caves and kumran right they've dated these things
51:49
to probably I've heard as early as first BC but all the way up to second on OD
51:55
Domin so somewhere in that range somebody is taking the Greek text that
52:01
we know is already established because people are quoting it right we know for example they had the Book of Enoch in
52:07
Greek because people are quoting it in Greek so that's how you could that's how
52:13
you can like track your library where's your library at the time right that's how you track it by the way have you
52:19
read The Book of Enoch yeah uhhuh I read the Giza fragments of it I can see that much what do you think about all these
52:26
people talking about about Anunnaki aliens flying around and building pyramids back in the day I think it's silly you
52:35
do damn it you know how many podcasts we've done
52:40
with people who claim that they're experts on the anunaki yeah it's it seems to be a big a big area but they
52:46
were drug users bro what can you what can you expect that's what they taught in the Giza in the Giza um text it says
52:54
they taught the women the art of drugs so these weren't
53:01
aliens they were just drug users they were just drug addicts they were giants bro they were giants yeah yeah like real
53:09
giants gantas that's St are you crunching oh you can hear that oh my god
53:14
oh I liked it I liked it it's this is the the ASMR podcast there stimulus
53:21
everywhere they taunt in the drug craft that's what the text says and you don't
53:27
understand man they've got Medusa at the time you say wait wait wait go back to Giants yeah what are you talking about
53:33
Giants that's the Greek word gantas Giants meaning physically they were huge people no okay right no they
53:43
had a superior knowledge of the drugs and they had a group of women who were called the
53:48
Medusa and the Medusa could hit you with a drug on an arrow and paralyze you and
53:54
then they would take you and do things to you hm and that's how a group of these women
53:59
function that's how they hunted they hunted men you can imagine the society women that hunted men yeah you have to
54:05
kill three men in order to get married huh yeah and they don't really marry you
54:12
they just Farm men and when when is this what time period was this this is Bronze Age late Bronze Age Bronze Age M like
54:19
1200 Peak at 1200 say BC 1 1200 this is when the Great Queen media
54:25
is around yeah and so back okay okay this is great I'm loving this but back to my original
54:31
question how fundamentally how did did your understanding and and learning all
54:36
of this ancient Greek change your understanding of how religion is preached today and the story of the
54:43
Bible it's a fairy tale it's a fairy tale what they teach now and do now is
54:51
not even a hair's breath of semblance to what they did originally
54:57
yeah you don't understand um mystery um is not a word that means a
55:04
question or something you don't know right the mystery is the performance that brings you through death back into
55:12
life and once you've been initiated into that environment you're
55:19
given um Keys things to open up um a way to decode what's being said
55:27
so that you understand what's at the higher level now if you're like Jesus
55:32
you do that with 12 children people don't realize that the apostles are just children pump the bricks we'll get there
55:39
okay [ __ ] okay we're going to get there don't worry this
55:46
um that's so loud this is the best day of my life is it
55:52
really thank you for allowing me to come I'm going to say you've had a terrible life this is the day in Greece in in
Greek drug cults
56:01
Athens in we're talking the Iron Age or the Bronze Age when when they started to
56:07
develop uh these mystery Cults of elus what what what time was this yeah this
56:14
is late Bronze Age late bronze AG late Bronze Age uhhuh and couple of
56:20
generations before the Trojan War a couple of generations before the Trojan War and this is when were experimenting
56:27
with these with these drugs the that would
56:33
uh these psychotropic drugs like Urgot yeah and and other things what were some
56:39
of the other drugs they were using back then they were using the ones that make you crazy so there's whole there's
56:45
several classes and one of them the deathbringers that's one we talked about this episode of the podcast is brought
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58:57
you crazy and permanently no no temporarily and they would have people cured you
59:04
know quote unquote cured because they've got antidotes we even have stories about people going out and he's like oh my
59:10
daughters they went off on their cult thing and they're just they're still not coming down you know what do we do and
59:16
he has to go whip them up an antidote right for them to stop um being
59:21
in this state of mania and it's things like um High skyine Scopolamine and
59:28
atropine containing who skos is the is the Greek word and it's these plants
59:37
that contain these substances that you know they found them in hair painted on
59:42
hair because they're offerings um and what was the perp what did they gain by taking these drugs and and
59:50
what sort of uh what did they learn what sort of Enlightenment did they achieve what was the so what was the the ends to
59:58
the use of these drugs for them yeah yeah we have an instead of me making something up you could read the the
1:00:06
mythis Liturgy in the Greek magical Papi where it talks about what you'll see and
1:00:12
how you should interact and what you have to do oh they had like a protocol yeah it's like a manual wow yeah yeah
1:00:21
and you got to have the right things to bring with you because you got to make the drugs
1:00:26
right you you get there and you first of all you're going to be fasting for a certain number of days MH and they put
1:00:32
you through these um repetitious songs right we have these in the PGM where
1:00:39
you're setting the images in your head remember this is idolatry aolon is the
1:00:46
word for image Right image and there's you know so when we're on our snake
1:00:53
venom and you've got a con auction with a and they're using tons of snakes stff
1:00:58
I got an entire author for you watch this pH luminus is his name f luminous pH luminous with a pH on the front yeah
1:01:06
he is a physician somewhere before the fourth Century cuz they start quoting him in the fourth and he's a physician
1:01:14
who talks about um the Venoms I've got a couple of slides of him he's a they he
1:01:21
talks about the Venoms that are used some great stuff by way snake Venoms were used as as mind altering drugs or
1:01:27
they were used as antidotes they were used as medicines medicines right right
1:01:32
the Medusa really exist right they're women they're group of women these are
1:01:38
syian tribes by the way MH what do I mean by that tribes that are um they were horse culture um mobile MH and um
1:01:48
they ravaged people that's how they you know got what they needed and the Medusa were
1:01:54
the ones that you said they had to kill a certain amount of men before they could get married it's the same tribes that are producing those that specific
1:02:01
group of women they have this cult thing where they apply the medicine to their hair they wear it in their hair and they
1:02:09
use arrows and that poison can petrify you and they'll drag you off and they'll
1:02:17
do things to you like what eat your brain no no no sexy stuff they'll either
1:02:23
mate or kill you well hm yeah yeah it's a shame to have end up
1:02:29
relationship that's weird that back then you would have to poison a man
1:02:35
to have with them right like wouldn't a guy just want to have with these are
1:02:42
these are people being raided imagine being raided I mean it's hard to rape a man if you're a woman
1:02:49
right so you got to give them truns to make them hard when you're them because you're probably going to kill them too
1:02:58
what effects did drug use have on the philosophy of Western Society um and the Democratic forms of
1:03:07
governance yeah so um it's a part of the fabric of
Solon & the creation of democracy
1:03:13
pushing Society toward um inspiration looking for sources of inspiration all
1:03:19
the earliest Greek temples are temples of the muses so that written word connection is
1:03:28
very very important and bring magic people want to
1:03:33
know what is Magic right um classically and classically it's that
1:03:38
control of logos it's a control people think logos oh that's a Greek word right
1:03:43
oh and the seminarians get all excited you know I mean and they don't really know it because seminarians don't read
1:03:51
classical tags the logos is that reason that Reckoning
1:03:56
that Reckoning okay so that's what um to me that's what I studied so
1:04:04
carefully that's why classes study ancient Greek yeah they do who is Solon Solon
1:04:12
he's a reformer he's a he's a rich reformer who basically turns and gives
1:04:17
power back to the people he was advised by oh this guy on crack he carried it
1:04:22
around in a he carried it around in a c of uh the hoof of something and it was a
1:04:29
plant they root that they said he grounded up and snorted all the time he advised Solon and um solon's reforms
1:04:38
ultimately become what you and I know as democracy yeah what is the proper
1:04:46
definition of democracy and Antiquity compared to our democracy today yeah it's the rule of the people if you want
1:04:52
it's the rule of the people the damos is just the neighborhood you know Athens is divided up into deems mhm right the Hood
1:05:01
um you get a neighborhood speak that's what democracy is it's a neighborhood
1:05:07
speak and it's direct representation too and they've got all sort all sorts of reforms like look you cannot take any
1:05:16
money while you are a uh you know part of the Boule part of the council you
1:05:21
can't you can't take any money and you have to have terms and everything and I it's what inspired Jefferson part of
1:05:27
your book uh says that there was 300,000 people in in Athens right is that and
1:05:35
then and then 10% of them were part of these councils that sounds right there was like 30,000 of them were part of
1:05:41
these councils that made the rules and made the laws and right and um they have
1:05:46
a couple of assemblies Boule and the E yeah which becomes our word for church
1:05:53
well I love the way that it your book described the differences between
1:06:00
our Democratic Republic that we have in America compared to uh their version of
1:06:06
democracy and you had all these people that would have to debate all these
1:06:11
ideas and rules and laws and punishment for crimes um and I think you said that
1:06:18
people only were able to do this for one year at a time they had like onee terms or whatever it was different at
1:06:24
different times but right right and what we have now is so far away from that
1:06:31
very very far away from that yeah well we don't also don't have juries with 300 people
1:06:37
either can you imagine that just big crowd of people from the polis doing the
1:06:42
city thing right they're being they're exercising their polya it's where we get
1:06:48
our word politics right the functioning of the city and they were vehemently
1:06:54
against people people who could gain any
1:06:59
sort of benefit in this system or or make any sort of money or any sort of
1:07:05
economic gain from from this system to corrupt it like it was it was the it was
1:07:12
like the their version of democracy was essentially to protect Humanity from
1:07:18
itself yeah exactly it put the breakes it was the ultimate check and
1:07:24
balance definitely and it's what inspired our democracy or the thing we call
1:07:30
democracy yeah but our democracy is so much different I mean it's if if you look at all the people that are in the
1:07:36
government and have been in the government making decisions and making millions of dollars for so long it is
1:07:42
run by tyrants yes that's how you know the Greeks said they said whoever is
1:07:47
profiting watch who's profiting and you cannot have the running of the state
1:07:52
with somebody profiting from it because when you do it becomes corrupt they knew that you you have to
1:07:59
keep that government um sacred you have to keep it sacred right yeah and Solon
1:08:08
was one of the originals uh in responsible for the creation of democracy Yeah well yeah
1:08:14
things that led to ultimately what you and I would say voila democracy and how
1:08:19
long did this last um you could argue that um
1:08:26
this is a process that doesn't start and end but it's a process that
1:08:32
Cycles throughout time um and the deity
1:08:38
this is where it gets cool the deity that we put on the hill is that
1:08:45
Warrior that Warrior girl yeah we put a warrior girl on the
1:08:51
hill and you know what she does she nourishes the serpent
1:08:59
King isn't that funny she gives him her haa what does this mean her
1:09:07
blood drank my blood yeah they're using blood as a
1:09:15
medicinal yeah the Virgin Queen she's the one who raises that serpent
1:09:23
King yeah no they got him you can go to Athens today go to the top of the look for