Hillel Schenker and Ian S. Lustick: Palestine/Israel - Beyond One State - Two State Solutionism – Deeper Thoughts

The New View invited our former guest experts on the Israeli / Palestinian Conflict, Ian Lustick and Hillel Schenker, for a special conversation in partnership with Transcend US in honor of the work of our friend and mentor, Johan Galtung, considered the father of peace studies and the field of conflict transformation and the co-founder of Transcend International. Johan recently died in Oslo at the age of 93.

This conversation goes deeply beyond the simplistic debate between one state (1SS) versus two state (2SS) “solutions” - each with advocates and opponents. We also compare with historical examples of processes towards statehood over many decades or centuries. Conflict trans-formation expert Rich Rubenstein and Diane Perlman were co-hosts.

Brooklyn born Hillel Schenker moved to Israel in his youth and is a pioneer and leader in the peace process having met with Palestinians in Europe when it was illegal to meet in Israel. He is co-editor of the award-winning Palestine Israel Journal. He lives in Tel Aviv and is in favor of the two-state solution. Hillel also spoke about trauma, anger, fear, empathy and more.

University of Pennsylvania political scientist Ian Lustick is a world expert on this conflict and has written several books. For many years he advocated a two-state solution until recent years when conditions evolved into a “One State Reality.” He exposes how the fantasy of a-two state solution is cynically exploited by politicians while being undermined.

Rich Rubenstein is a founder, former director and beloved professor in the George Mason University Carter School for Peace and Conflict Resolution. He is a guest editorialist for Transcend Media Service. He has written many books on related subjects like terrorism, religion and conflict Reasons to Kill, Resolving

See bios below for more detail.

Politicians and pundits proclaim with equal intensity that either the 1SS or the 2SS is “the only way.” Ian Lustick observed that these solutions are like a “pretty picture” we have on our minds that just need political will to achieve and fight for. They are simplistic and don’t account for complexities and realities on the ground.

Public discourse does not imagine beyond these two simplistic scenarios. Johan Galtung had an idea of a “six-state solution” based on the European Community. Marilyn Langlois wrote about a “five state solution" including Israel/Palestine as a binational state, We did not go into other ideas for creative arrangements like confederation, geo-confederation, consociationalism and strategies by “A Land for All." The priority now is to stop the violence, but it is important to elevate and deepen analysis of complex realties.

Near the end Ian emphasized the need for security for each person. Diane reframed this as "From the River to the Sea each person needs security” - about which we reached consensus. Hillel quoted Israeli comedian from Oasis of Peace Village, Noam Shuster-Eliassi, "From the River to the Sea What Palestinians and Israelis need is Therapy."

We hope this to be the first in a series of dialogues introducing principles of the Transcend Method to the public and applying them to current conflicts.

Introductory comments
11:31 Hillel
20:30 Ian
29:49 Rich questions Ian
33:15 Rich questions Hillel
41:40 Norie’s comment
43 Alanna’s comment
48:00 Marilyn’s comments
57:30 Diane’s comment
Final Analyses and dialogue
58:30 Hillel -
104:50 Ian

Brooklyn born Hillel Schenker http://www.pij.org moved to Israel in his youth and is a pioneer and leader in the peace process, having met with Palestinians in Europe when it was illegal to meet in Israel. He is co-editor of the award winning Palestine Israel Journal PIJ.ORG Palestine-Israel Journal He lives in Tel Aviv and is in favor of the two state solution. He also spoke about trauma, anger, fear and empathy and more.
We also compare with historical examples of processes towards statehood over many decades or centuries.

Dr. Ian S. Lustick holds the Bess W. Heyman Chair in the Political Science Department of the University of Pennsylvania. He teaches Middle Eastern politics, comparative politics, and computer modeling. He is a recipient of awards from the Carnegie Corporation, the National Science Foundation, the National Endowment for the Humanities, and the Social Sciences Research Council. He is a past president of the Politics and History Section of the American Political Science Association and of the Association for Israel Studies, and a member of the Council on Foreign Relations. Among his books are Arabs in the Jewish State (1980); For the Land and the Lord (1988, 1994); Unsettled States, Disputed Lands (1993); Trapped in the War on Terror (2006). His most recent book is Paradigm Lost – From Two-State Solution to One-State Reality (2019).

Richard E. Rubenstein is University Professor Emeritus at George Mason University and is aformer director of the Jimmy and Rosalynn Carter School for Peace and Conflict Resolution. He is the author of ten books on understanding and resolving social conflicts, including Resolving Structural Conflicts: How Violent Systems Can Be Transformed (2017). His books on religion and conflict include When Jesus Became God (2000), Aristotle’s Children (2004), and Thus Saith the Lord: The Revolutionary Moral Vision of Isaiah and Jeremiah (2006). His study of justifications for war in the United States is Reasons to Kill: Why Americans Choose War (2010).
Richard was educated at Harvard College, Oxford University, where he was a Rhodes Scholar, and Harvard Law School, and holds an honorary Litt.D. degree from the University of Malta. His current work in progress includes The Age of Apocalypse, a book about conflicts between Christians, Jews, and Romans in the first century C.E. Much of his writing on political issues can be found online at Transcend Media Service and CounterPunch Magazine. Richard lives on Capitol Hill in Washington, D.C. with his wife, Dr. Susan Ryerson, and is active in work for peace and social justice.
Diane Perlman PhD is a political psychologist, the US Convener for Transcend International and Editorialist for Transcend Media Service. She created a deck of cards of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights which evolved into Living Rights: Making Human Rights Come Alive Activity Book and Journal. She is co-author of Reconciliation with Joanna Santa Barbara and Johan Galtung and has a chapter in The Psychology of Terrorism. Her websites:www.consciouspolitics.org,
https://coronawise.substack.com/, https://www.linkedin.com/in/diane-perlman-4a1b699/
Alanna Hartzok is an earth rights visionary, twice US Congressional Candidate (Democrat and Green Parties), and author of The Earth Belongs to Everyone (Radical Middle Book Award). She initiated and was instrumental in the passage of tax reform legislation in Pennsylvania that gave the 1000 boroughs of the state the option to shift property taxes in the direction of a “commons rent” public finance system. She has given lectures and seminars in 38 countries and is an NGO (Non-Gov) Consultant for United Nations ECOSOC. https://alannahartzok.substack.com and here: https://theiu.org
Marilyn Langlois is a member of TRANSCEND USA West Coast. She is a volunteer community organizer and international solidarity activist based in Richmond, California. A co-founder of the Richmond Progressive Alliance, member of Haiti Action Committee and Board member of the International Center for 9/11 Justice, she is retired from previous employment as a teacher, secretary, administrator, mediator and community advocate.)
Carol Brouillet is co-founder of many non-profit organizations, including the Northern California 9/11 Truth Alliance, publisher of the Deception and Perception Dollars, hyperactivist for three decades. Her website is http://www.communitycurrency.org.

Norie Huddle is a coach, consultant and President of the Center for New National Security (cnns.info). She is the creator of The Best Game on Earth (www.bestgame.org), co-founder and owner of the Garden of Paradise in Ecuador (www.gardenofparadise.net). The author of seven books on environmental and national-global security themes, her book Surviving: The Best Game on Earth (1984) was a NYT bestseller and three other books have been bestsellers. Her book Butterfly has become a popular global meme to describe humanity in transformation.