Episode 99. Capitalism versus Socialism: The Great Seligman-Nearing Debate of 1921 with Rob Weir

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Episode 99. Capitalism versus Socialism: The Great Seligman-Nearing Debate of 1921 with Rob Weir

In this episode of the Forge of Freedom podcast, host Alex Ooley interviews Rob Weir about his book, 'Capitalism versus Socialism: The Great Seligman-Nearing Debate of 1921.' The debate, which took place in New York City, featured Edwin Robert Anderson Seligman arguing for capitalism and Scott Nearing arguing for socialism. Seligman's arguments focused on the benefits of capitalism, such as wealth creation, technological advancements, and individual liberty. Nearing, on the other hand, criticized capitalism for its inherent power imbalance and argued that socialism offered a better environment for workers. The debate took place at a time when socialism was gaining momentum worldwide, and the participants did not have the benefit of hindsight to evaluate the real-world consequences of socialism.

This conversation explores the arguments made in a debate between Edwin R.A. Seligman, a proponent of capitalism, and Scott Nearing, a socialist. The debate covers topics such as the theoretical vs real-world examples of socialism, wartime communism, market failures, capitalism and war, Marx's iron law of wages, colonial empires, the military-industrial complex, the calculation problem, and the generational debate on values. The conversation highlights the ongoing relevance of these arguments and the importance of understanding and defending economic freedom.

Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Background
04:59 Discovering the Debate
05:16 Becoming Attracted to Ron Paul
07:45 Mises' Inclusion of the Debate
08:08 Setting the Stage for the Debate
10:30 The Debaters: Seligman and Nearing
17:02 Defining Capitalism and Socialism
23:32 The Context of Socialism in 1921
28:51 Seligman's Arguments for Capitalism
31:29 Nearing's Criticisms of Capitalism
53:23 Theoretical vs Real-World Examples of Socialism
54:13 Wartime Communism and the New Economic Policy
55:22 Capitalism vs Communism: Starvation and Market Failures
56:42 Capitalism and War
57:40 Marx's Iron Law of Wages and Lenin's Modification
58:43 Capitalism, Colonial Empires, and Conflict
59:55 Modern Arguments: Military-Industrial Complex and Environmentalism
01:03:26 The Worker as Slave and the Calculation Problem
01:04:07 Seligman's Response to the Worker as Slave Argument
01:06:14 Voluntary Employment Relationship and Economic Prices
01:08:06 The Calculation Problem and Rational Economic Planning
01:15:08 Attempts to Patch the Socialist Economic Argument
01:17:54 Generational Debate and Disagreement on Values
01:23:52 The Depression of 1920-1921 and the Legacy of the Debate

Resources:

Debating Socialism: The Seligman-Nearing Debate at 100 | Mises Institute
https://mises.org/library/debating-socialism-seligman-nearing-debate-100

Debating Socialism: The Seligman-Nearing Debate at 100 | Mises Wire
https://mises.org/wire/debating-socialism-seligman-nearing-debate-100

Capitalism versus Socialism: The Great... by Weir, Rob
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1733897135/ref=sw_img_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

“Capitalism versus Socialism” now Available
https://www.whynotlibertarianism.com/capitalism-versus-socialism-now-available.html

Amazon.com: Rob Weir: books, biography, latest update
https://www.amazon.com/stores/author/B07QWBFZZ5/about

Two Structural Reasons Why Government Fails - Foundation for Economic Education
https://fee.org/articles/two-structural-reasons-why-government-fails/

Rob Weir (@WhyNotLib) / X
https://twitter.com/WhyNotLib

What is Libertarianism?
https://www.whynotlibertarianism.com/what-is-libertarianism.html

About "Why Not Libertarianism?"
https://www.whynotlibertarianism.com/about

The appendix to Mises's "Liberalism" (the first English edition of which was titled "The Free and Prosperous Commonwealth" due to the shift in meaning of the term "liberal" in the U.S.)
https://archive.org/details/freeprosperousco00vonm/page/194/mode/2up

James Grant's "The Forgotten Depression"
https://www.amazon.com/Forgotten-Depression-Crash-Cured-Itself/dp/1451686463

Jörg Guido Hülsmann's "Mises: The Last Knight of Liberalism"
https://mises.org/library/mises-last-knight-liberalism-0
That's the biography that fleshes out Mises's life in Vienna, in part from material in Russian archives.

Mises's "Economic Calculation in the Socialist Commonwealth"
https://mises.org/library/economic-calculation-socialist-commonwealth

The Lange–Lerner approach, the main response from socialists to Mises:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lange_model

Rawls's "Difference Principle"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_as_Fairness#Difference_principle

Nearing's pamphlet, "The Great Madness: A Victory for the American Plutocracy"
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=umn.31951002333233k&seq=3
This is what got him indicted under the Espionage Act.

Tags:

#freedom
#liberty
#capitalism
#socialism
#Marx
#communism
#markets
#peace
#prosperity
#voluntaryexchange
#voluntaryism
#corporatism
#industrialization
#FDR
#greatdepression
#NewDeal
#war

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