119. Dr. Robert Apter and his lawsuit about Ivermectin

Today I talk with Dr. Robert Apter. You may be familiar with his name as he is taking on HHS and the FDA in their stance on Ivermectin. Please enjoy. Like, follow, and share. Thank you.Show more

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119. Dr. Robert Apter
===

Dr. Robert Apter: [00:00:00] If you're not a doctor, you're not a nurse, stop it y'all. To the FDA, I think every adult should have ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine in their medicine cabinet so that if they do become sick with covid, they can start early treatment.

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Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Next I have the very, um, very special guest, Dr. Robert Apter. Now you may be familiar with his name because he's suing HHS. Sir, thank you so much for coming on with us Dr. Apter.

Dr. Robert Apter: Thanks so much for having me.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So tell me what puts you in a position where you found, where you found yourself suing, uh, health and Human Services.

Dr. Robert Apter: Well, I've been doing telemedicine for Covid since April of twenty-twenty-one, with an organization called MyFreeDoctor.com. Prior to that, I was an emergency medicine physician for over 40 years. I retired from that in July of twenty-twenty, and then always had an interest in Covid and became more interested in it.

Dr. Robert Apter: So I have now treated more than 15,000 COVID patients. [00:04:00] With a very high rate of success. The way I got involved with the FDA lawsuit, the, the lawsuit was actually developed by the Washington DC law firm of Boyden Gray. Boyden Gray is a man's name. He was the counselor to the first President Bush, and held other high positions in government and has a law firm.

Dr. Robert Apter: And part of their, uh, mission is to limit overreach by the government. So they actually developed the lawsuit. And felt of the, uh, three big agencies, the FDA, NIH, and CDC, that this was the best legal avenue going forward. So then they, they, uh, developed the lawsuit over the suppression of the use of Ivermectin for Covid, and then they were looking for plaintiffs.

Dr. Robert Apter: Well, my license was already under investigation. For using Ivermectin for Covid, and I, I can give you more detail about that. But based on that, uh, I volunteered to be a plaintiff and they selected [00:05:00] me along with Mary Tati Bowden and Paul Merrick. I.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And we've already spoken to Mary Tilly, Bowden. She was amazing to have on.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Now, what state were you licensed in where they, uh, started to investigate your license? Because of the use of Ivermectin, which has been a safe medication for many, many years, but it's been as sold to the public as this dangerous horse paste. Like it's, it's absolutely ridiculous. It's safer than Tylenol.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And now they're investigating you in which state?

Dr. Robert Apter: Right. Well, I'm licensed in Arizona and Washington. I've had investigations of me in Arizona, Washington, and Iowa, and they were all, as far as cases, they were all based on two cases. Although they've, the boards have gone on fishing expeditions. They actually started an investigation of me because somebody reported that I had tweeted something where I forwarded a tweet that was all about.

Dr. Robert Apter: Excess mortality that correlated with Covid [00:06:00] vaccinations and I forwarded it and said, it's getting harder to hide the bodies. And so they started investigating me for having said that the, the primary investigations I. Oh, in another case, uh, the Arizona board already was investigating me and then they, they saw that with my free doctor that I listed my home address as my practice address.

Dr. Robert Apter: So they thought that was sufficient reason to investigate my use of controlled substances or my prescription controlled substances. Turns out that I haven't written a controlled substance prescription since I retired from emergency medicine in July of twenty-twenty. So there's nothing to investigate, but they just because.

Dr. Robert Apter: My address for my practice was listed the same as my residence. They thought that was grounds to investigate me.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Wow. And is this the Arizona Medical Board? You know,

Dr. Robert Apter: it's, it's a kangaroo court

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: because you're, you're an MD, correct.

Dr. Robert Apter: Yes. I [00:07:00] missed some of what you said there. Uh,

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: this is the Arizona Medical Board, correct?

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: 'cause you're an MD and the Arizona is, is one of the states that actually separates the doctors of osteopathy and the medical doctors into different boards.

Dr. Robert Apter: Yes. So I two cases launched four investigations of me. The two cases. One was, uh, a lady that lived in Oregon near Washington, tried to fill a prescription.

Dr. Robert Apter: I wrote for Ivermectin in a Washington pharmacy, then went to an Oregon pharmacy. Ultimately, the, the pharmacist called me and didn't, didn't like what I had to say about Ivermectin for Covid, so he reported me to the me, the medical board. Now, the lady had some significant complications of her illness and did very, very well.

Dr. Robert Apter: And in both cases where complaints came out of patient encounters, the patients did extremely well and wrote affidavits of my support. So it wasn't an issue [00:08:00] about patient care in terms of any outcome. They, they both had excellent outcomes. The other one was a case in Iowa, a lady with significant comorbidities.

Dr. Robert Apter: And I wrote a prescription for her for Ivermectin. Among other things. She tried to fill it, I believe it was at a Walgreens, but it was a standard retail pharmacy and they wouldn't fill it. And both of these cases arose back in 2021 when MyFreeDoctor was having a, allowing us to write Ivermectin prescriptions to any pharmacy.

Dr. Robert Apter: So since then we've changed the policy and we'll only write those prescriptions to vetted pharmacies that we don't know will not turn us into the medical boards for doing so. In this case, in Iowa, the lady, again, she did very, very well. She wrote an affidavit, my support. She was upset because the retail pharmacy, which I believe was Walgreens, refused to fill her prescription.

Dr. Robert Apter: So she filed a formal complaint about that. With the Iowa Pharmacy Board, without [00:09:00] my knowledge of that at all, except the Iowa Pharmacy Board said, oh, this is no problem, but we'll turn it over to the medical board to investigate the doctor. Then the a, the, uh, Iowa Medical Board, in addition to starting an investigation, they copied it to Arizona and Washington where I am licensed.

Dr. Robert Apter: And then they, they launched investigations based on the same case. So I got three investigations because my patient complained that she couldn't get her ivermectin filled. So I was investigated by three states. Iowa ultimately dropped their case because part of part of Iowa's concern in their initial investigation was that I was prescribing without a license, but we were able to prescribe in all 50 states.

Dr. Robert Apter: For Covid under the Prep Act until May of this year when, when the rules changed.[00:10:00]

Dr. Robert Apter: Right. And, and that that s result, that resulted in three licensing board investigations of me, Iowa ultimately recognized that there was, in addition to the issue of. Um, my not having an Iowa license was, was not, uh, significant. That there were no, there was nothing clinically significant. They basically acknowledged it, that there was no, no problem.

Dr. Robert Apter: So I've been in, being investigated for two, almost three years now by the Arizona and Washington medical Boards, and they've gone and looked through as many cases of mine as they can find, and they've, uh, they, they're continuing to pursue this. There hasn't been any determination against me from these boards, but there's been a staff recommendation from Arizona for, uh, as a non non-disciplinary advisory for con continuing medical education that I should take something like a [00:11:00] two-day class on ethics and, and charting because ultimately they could only find issues with, um, medical records.

Dr. Robert Apter: And a lot of those were beyond my control. Um. Washington has now charged me with unprofessional conduct, and then they've cited their unprofessional conduct statute, which actually says that unconventional treatment does not constitute. Unprofessional conduct if no patient has been harmed or put in serious threat of harm.

Dr. Robert Apter: Now, both of these boards, through all their investigations over two or three years now, none of them have identified a single patient who has to complain against me or a single bad outcome.

Dr. Robert Apter: Unprofessional conduct is in the realm of Yes, of like sexual assault of a patient. Right. That is a serious claim.

Dr. Robert Apter: But they, so they detailed their, their findings on about 15 patients of mine, and they were things like [00:12:00] not having a physician-patient relationship, a proper physician-patient relationship because I'd never done a physical exam. Well, of course these are being treated by telemedicine. We have, um. Uh, directed histories and we're able to get photographs if we need to.

Dr. Robert Apter: And if I feel really feel a person needs a physical exam, I will send them to an ER in urgent care or whatever, or their primary doctor that, that actually comes up very uncommonly in the management of Covid. So the, um, uh, yeah, the, they, there were other things like, uh, writing Ivermectin. Uh, for a pregnant patient without getting a pregnancy test, even though the patient had told me there's no way they could get pregnant or they could be pregnant, wow.

Dr. Robert Apter: Uh, there were accusations in some of these cases that I didn't properly instruct them on proper informed consent for, for [00:13:00] things that are being prescribed off label. But all of this is really kangaroo court. I mean, if you go through any doctor's medical records, you can find these kinds of violations.

Dr. Robert Apter: Arizona was concerned about my medical records because I couldn't provide them medical records on a number of patients. Turns out that in 2021, the MyFreeDoctor.com was using an internet company called Medici for all of this, uh, charting and record keeping. And then there was a falling out between Medici and my free doctor.com.

Dr. Robert Apter: And we no longer have access to those records. Medici will not give them to us. And we have told both boards that we would be happy to cooperate in any legal attempt to get these records, but we just don't have them and we can't get them. But that didn't satisfy the Arizona Medical Board. They thought I was, I.

Dr. Robert Apter: Pulling their leg or something. I don't know what they concluded, but that was a big part of the Arizona Medical Board's complaint that I couldn't produce records on these patients. And they also found that I had written a few [00:14:00] prescriptions for, for my wife and for a close friend without keeping medical records.

Dr. Robert Apter: Something that, uh, I think most physicians have probably done at one point or another.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. That's, you know, unfortunately that that is a, a thing that does happen. Um, so it seems like it was quite a buildup for this lawsuit. There was a lot of. And hardships that you've gone through for, for no legitimate reason prior to this lawsuit.

Dr. Robert Apter: Right. And my license is in jeopardy. I've had, you know, thousands and thousands of dollars of legal fees in dealing with the boards. And um, you know, at best I may have to

Dr. Robert Apter: do two days of, I have to say ridiculous continuing medical education, which really. Has no bearing on what I do. So then take us, you, you have to look at the, these boards that have, these boards are filled with people who have never treated a single covid [00:15:00] patient and they're, they're coming after me when I've treated 15,000 patients and with a very, very high rate of success.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So can you, um, take us to the next steps of when you first got in touch with the lawyers that were going to represent you for this case?

Dr. Robert Apter: Uh, in the FDA lawsuit, I have different attorneys for the licensing, uh, than I do for the FDA lawsuit. So are you referring to the FDA lawsuit?

Dr. Robert Apter: Yeah. So they, I got an inquiry from them through, uh, email sources and that they were doing this and, and, you know. Let us know if you're interested and tell us a little bit about why. A, a part of why they, uh, chose me was that the Iowa Board, in that one case that they were investigating, uh, came up with 60 pages of documents and included [00:16:00] referencing the FDA's.

Dr. Robert Apter: Uh, you're not a horse, you're not a Cow, that widespread PR campaign. So they actually cited that in their investigation of me and, and in what they copied to. Uh, Arizona, Washington. So that, I think, was a part of why, uh, the law firm's interested in having me as a plaintiff.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: You're saying that the Iowa Medical Board used a tweet as evidence against you?

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Oh my goodness,

Dr. Robert Apter: no. The Iowa, the Iowa Medical Board in their, the Iowa Medical Board, in their investigation, they. Quoted the PR campaign of the FDA where they said, you're not a horse, you're not a cow. Stop it, y'all. And had the picture of, uh, supposedly of that tech, uh, nuzzling a horse, and the whole thing about the horse medicine.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Wow. It's striking. I just said that that's, that's incredible. And it's striking that they're, they use that at all. They referenced a tweet at [00:17:00] all. I mean, a tweet should never be brought into any investigation as, as it's not an official source. It's propaganda. So take me to the next step. When, um, you finally went to court and it initially got dismissed, didn't it?

Dr. Robert Apter: Yes. The lawsuit was filed in, uh, district court in southern Texas. And, uh, of course, uh, it is routine for the defendants to move to dismiss the case. And the FDA did that. Um, and they did it on the grounds that, that we did not have standing to sue because they had sovereign immunity, which basically is saying they can do whatever they want, doesn't matter.

Dr. Robert Apter: And the, the judge in that district court accepted that argument. So we then appealed that to the fifth Circuit court in New Orleans, and it was just in, uh, September 1st, I think the district court. Basically reversed that decision and said that the FDA is, uh, once they've [00:18:00] approved a drug, they can give information, but they are not allowed to give treatment advice.

Dr. Robert Apter: So they basically said, you're not a doctor, you're not a nurse. Stop it, y'all, to the FDA. But they ba they said that we, that, that the district court was wrong in, in, in, in saying we had no standing, they did not have sovereign immunity at that port on that point. So there was an opportunity that the, the government had to appeal that to the Supreme Court, but they did not.

Dr. Robert Apter: So that's being remanded back to the district court. So it's still an open case and who knows where it's going to go? I think I,

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: so it's still, it went from the, can you repeat that? So it went from the fifth court back down to the, the original district. Is that what you had said?

Dr. Robert Apter: Yes. It's gone back to the original district and actually they've been asked to rule again on the issue of standing. Um, I think the [00:19:00] FDA is refiling their brief for dismissal.

Dr. Robert Apter: I. Uh, but the, it, I mean, I'm not a lawyer, but it seems like the Circuit Court has already told the district court that, that they're wrong on that issue. So we'll see what happens from here. We hope we get to a point of at least discovery.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, I mean, I think it's amazing, and this was big in the news back when this happened.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: The FDA lawyer basically said, no. That was just a joke. We, we didn't mean it, it was just a joke. Sorry.

Dr. Robert Apter: Right, and the FDA hasn't changed anything they're doing. So there isn't any, uh, relief of the, uh, inability of patients to get ivermectin quickly. They still can't do that. We have to use. As I said, pharmacies that we've vetted for, for many patients, I would say most of my patients are having to get their medications from an out-of-State Pharmacy, so, or at least a non-local pharmacy.

Dr. Robert Apter: So there's shipping costs and [00:20:00] delays and uh uh, it's really a problem for patients. For that reason, I recommend that. Any patient should have ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine on hand in their medicine cabinet so that they can start it early with the doctor's advice hopefully. And, and, uh, I provide that service through my free doctor.com.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That's great. And it's, if I'm not mistaken, it's over-The-counter Ivermectin is over-the-counter in Tennessee and in New Hampshire.

Dr. Robert Apter: I hadn't heard New Hampshire, but it is in Tennessee. But I've also had patients that have trouble getting it in Tennessee, but I'm not prescribing in those two states, uh, any longer. So I'm not following that closely there. I'm just prescribing now for Arizona and Washington.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Are you having a tough time finding places in Arizona that will prescribe, that will dispense it?

Dr. Robert Apter: [00:21:00] Yes, it's uh, we are usually using an out-of-State Pharmacy for our Arizona patients. I know there are some in-State that will, will fill those prescriptions, but, uh, our company is favoring an out-of-State Pharmacy right now.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. I recently had a disagreement, if you will, with a, a fellow physician who, um.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Believes that Ivermectin is a dangerous product and doesn't want his patients to get it. And it's just like, have you done any research? Do you know anything about this medication? How it's, it's one of the safest medications on the face of the planet. It's supremely safer than paxlovid. It's safer than any vaccine, any vaccine, let alone the Covet jabs, which aren't vaccines.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's is mind-blowing.

Dr. Robert Apter: Yeah, it is, it's certainly safer than Tylenol or Ibuprofen or, um, Advil. Um, uh, for example, there's [00:22:00] 450 deaths from overdose of Tylenol in this country per year. Approximately. There are zero deaths from, there actually has not been a reported death from overdose of Ivermectin in the world medical literature.

Dr. Robert Apter: There are something like 16 or 17 deaths per year in association with Ivermectin reported, but they're thought to be, you know, an, an interaction of that with a high parasitic load where it's being used in treatment of parasites. I had one patient mistakenly take five times the dose I prescribed and got to feeling a little dizzy, but had no serious problems.

Dr. Robert Apter: So the, the, the, uh, safety profile is, is much greater than, uh, than other medications that are commonly prescribed.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Did this patient accidentally take a five-day course in one day?

Dr. Robert Apter: No, uh, the reason that it came about, because [00:23:00] our prescriptions are written for three milligram tablets, which is what is commercially available, but then when you go to a compounding pharmacy, they can compound it into a tablet or capsule of whatever strength. So the patient had 15 milligram capsules, but read the original prescription that was for three milligram tablets rather than the instructions that were on the bottle.

Dr. Robert Apter: And so she took five times the amount, she took, you know, five times, 15 milligrams.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I'm sure she felt great afterwards. Other than the slight dizziness.

Dr. Robert Apter: Yeah. Well there were, there were pharmacokinetic studies done way back in, I think 2003 with with Ivermectin, where they were giving people single doses of 120 milligrams or 60 milligrams three times a week, and they had no problems with that.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Now have you looked into using Ivermectin for other diagnoses for other conditions?

Dr. Robert Apter: I really haven't. I, I know some people are using it for cancer, but I'm not [00:24:00] involved in cancer treatment and, uh, I think that's, there's less information about that, but that plus Phenvendazole seems to be helping some patients with cancer, but I, I'm, I'm not. Completely knowledgeable about that. It's not something I use.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Sure, understood. Um, just wanted to see if you had heard of any of that. 'cause I, I had found some research papers on PubMed that talk about ivermectin hitting a common pathway for cancers and hitting and used, used for other specific cancers, you know, certain breast cancers, certain bladder cancers, certain pancreatic cancers.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Uh, and it seems to have, for those specific case studies or those small trials, it seemed to work pretty well.

Dr. Robert Apter: Right. I, I've come to, um, question everything in allopathic medicine, frankly, after my experience with Covid and seeing how corrupted and manipulated the data is, and, uh, the, you know, [00:25:00] more and more doctors are becoming protocol doctors, which is a really terrible thing. Uh. You know, you follow the protocol and, and, and don't pay attention to the patient.

Dr. Robert Apter: Just follow the protocol and you'll get better. I've had doctors say that to me. Wow. And, um, I wouldn't go back to that doctor. Um, you know, when I treat patients, especially when early on when, when Covid was more virulent, I'm following them very closely. And if people aren't doing well for whatever reason, then I make look at whether there's something that should be adjusted to the treatment.

Dr. Robert Apter: And you, you don't just follow the protocol, but that's what doctors are doing now and, and they're being forced to, they're being forced to by insurance companies and by corporate medicine that's monitoring whether they're following guidelines and protocols. And it doesn't matter whether they're applicable to their patients, that's what they're supposed to follow.

Dr. Robert Apter: And then they do, and then they do better financially. 'cause there, there are financial incentives to follow the guidelines and protocols. Uh. And, and then they won't get into trouble with, [00:26:00] uh, their, their hiring agencies, uh, or their licensing boards or the corporate people that really don't know medicine, but follow the protocol.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That's one thing I've noticed. So I spent most of my time practicing medicine in the military where money didn't matter, and if you could justify what you did, you could do it. And I, I've spent a short time now in the civilian world and it seems like there's a lot more monetarily based. Practice of medicine than evidence-based based practice of medicine.

Dr. Robert Apter: Well, and, and I've come to the conclusion that the whole evidence-based medicine thing is a bit of a sham, or it's a, it's a, it's an illusion because the evidence is corrupted. So, uh, the whole notion that random, large-scale randomized controlled trials are the only valid type of evidence it is. Uh. It's a lie, and it's a lie that's promoted by big pharma and [00:27:00] big government who are in collusion with big pharma because it's only big pharma that can do those studies.

Dr. Robert Apter: But they can manipulate those studies just as well as, as other types of studies. They, they really are not more valid than other types of evidence. Um, you can do observational studies if you control well for, for all the variables or, or you can look at real, real-world data. My favorite example, uh, is, uh, what I consider to be the greatest public health success in the history of mankind that you never heard about or most people never heard about.

Dr. Robert Apter: And that's the, um, use of ivermectin for Covid in Uttar, Pradesh and India in twenty-twenty-one. Are you familiar with that story?

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Uh, I've heard a bit about it, but please go on.

Dr. Robert Apter: Yeah. P. R. Kauri's written quite a bit about it. Um. So in twenty-twenty-one, of course, we had a big surge in this country in early twenty-twenty-one.

Dr. Robert Apter: And in [00:28:00] India it wasn't quite at the same time, but also in early twenty-twenty-one. Uttar Pradesh is the most populous state of India. So it's in Northeast India's 240 million people. So about two-thirds of the population of the United States, just in that one state of India. And in much more crowded and poorer conditions.

Dr. Robert Apter: They were having a lot of success anecdotally with Ivermectin, uh, early in 2021 and late 2020, and they had support of that from their government there. So in April of 2021, they started a program of community outreach with something like 140,000 caseworkers going door to door, distributing early treatment kits.

Dr. Robert Apter: To anybody that was sick or adult family members. So they had this kit and I think there was more than one version of it, but I've seen pictures where, uh, and data, the most common thing they had was of course, of ivermectin and doxycycline, plus vitamin C, [00:29:00] vitamin D, zinc, and they had Tylenol and a thermometer and an oximeter in there.

Dr. Robert Apter: And what do you think that kit cost to put together, including the oximeter? Probably less than 20 bucks. It was $2 and 90 cents according to what I read. And so they widely distributed these? Yeah, they widely distributed these, and they basically eradicated Covid from Uttar Pradesh. So by September of 2021, they, they, they had a month where they averaged less than one death per day.

Dr. Robert Apter: In a coun in a state of 240 million people, and they were down to about 30 cases per day. Now, at the same time, we were getting two or 3000 deaths per day, and I think we peaked around 5,000 deaths per day in the United States. We had 200,000 cases per day and they had 30, and they actually had declared half the districts in Uttar [00:30:00] Pradesh to be virus-free.

Dr. Robert Apter: Now, all this information has been pretty well wiped off the internet. You can you, if you really dig, you can find a little bit written about it here and there, but in, in the times of India. But if, and if you, uh, it is interesting. I, I searched this on w Wikipedia and they actually had an article in Wikipedia about COVID and Uttar Pradesh, and they had a very detailed timeline.

Dr. Robert Apter: Of the, what was going on in the pandemic and what treatment was being used, and it absolutely stopped in April of 21. So they started with the beginning of the pandemic, and then this article has nothing beyond April of 2021, which is when they instituted that program.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Wow. That's incredible that they would just cover up that like, it's like they want to destroy lives.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's like they want people to die from this.

Dr. Robert Apter: Well, it, it certainly seems that way. It's, um, [00:31:00] I, you, you, you can't look at all the things that have been done wrong from, uh, truly people's health that have been done wrong by the public health agencies since the start of the pandemic. Almost everything they've done has been wrong and it has killed people.

Dr. Robert Apter: Uh, I think the data is correct that has, that has looked at. Um, the mortality data, it seems like the best data I've seen is estimates that maybe one in a thousand people that get the, or one per thousand injection causes a death in the Covid vaccine, and that there may be 17 or somewhere between 15 and 20 million excess deaths from the Covid vaccine worldwide.

Dr. Robert Apter: I think that's, that's correct. Plus the suppression of early treatment. 90% of the deaths that we've had from Covid were certainly preventable by early treatment. And you know, in my case, I, I started in 20 April of twenty-twenty-one doing telemedicine for Covid [00:32:00] and not having, you know, been a primary doctor in my career either.

Dr. Robert Apter: I was working in emergency medicine. So I was a little unsure of myself at first, and I was, and, and the protocols were less. Well-developed at that time. One of the things that I. Uh, I did a little differently from some of the doctors, so I couldn't see why an antibiotic was included in some of their early treatment protocols, so I didn't do that at first, in the first month that I treated patients, I did have two patients that didn't respond well.

Dr. Robert Apter: They were both very high risk, like one was eighty-four, one was sixty-two, and a cancer survivor. And, and, and had, and the sixty-two-year-old also came to me late in the illness. So neither one of those two patients responded very well to my treatment. They kind of smoldered along and when their oxygen level dipped, their families took them to the er, and then they got admitted, and then they both died in the hospital.

Dr. Robert Apter: So I looked at those protocols and I, and I changed them a bit. One thing is I added an antibiotic. That was one thing I hadn't done for those two patients. [00:33:00] And, and then since then, I've not had anybody I've treated die to my knowledge. And, and they almost universally do well if they're following the recommendations I give them.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: You had mentioned something earlier about research that I want to kind of go back to for just a second. You had talked about, you know, how nowadays everyone needs randomized controlled study, you know, needs these meta-analysis to have to, to be able to call anything evidence. And, and I would say there's probably some truth to that.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Um, cautiously say there's some truth to that because like, we wanna make sure things are, are safe, but I think we should as doctors. Listen to and watch for any safety signal, any small study that shows a significant safety signal. I think that should be huge on the list and, and we're not seeing that,

Dr. Robert Apter: well, it's been evident from very early on, from the VAERS database, the Vaccine Adversity reporting system, that there are huge safety signals. [00:34:00] With, um, with the shock with Covid vaccines. Yeah. It's, and yet it's horrible. They, they have been ignored. Uh, I looked at some, and, and even the governor's even corrupted that database and hid some of the adverse events from that database, refused to add cases, uh, that were reported.

Dr. Robert Apter: Uh, early on. I looked at that data and uh, looked at the deaths per. A shot that were reported in the database in VAERS and compared to influenza, which had been given hundreds of millions of times to patients, uh, the rate was about 150 times greater for deaths, uh, being reported per vaccine for the COVID-19.

Dr. Robert Apter: So that's obviously a very strong signal, and, and we don't, I'm not even sure anymore that the flu vaccine is safe, but it's certainly not as dangerous as the Covid vaccine.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Oh, absolutely. And, and the DMED data, the Defense Military Epidemiologic database, that is [00:35:00] a database that the government holds. Uh, and it's all, it shows all of the active duty military and their, the symptoms or the, the problems that they have, and they've taken that entire database down, changed it because of a, a so-called Glitch and then put it back up and changed every single safety signal and reduced it from hundreds of percent down to 3% in testicular cancer for, for instance.

Dr. Robert Apter: Right. I think there's a lot of data to suggest that, uh, the covid vaccines are carcinogenic or causing, uh, what we call turbo cancers and increased rates of cancer. Um, it hasn't been as thoroughly studied as, as, uh, we'd like, but because the government doesn't wanna study it, they don't want, they don't want anybody to see that data.

Dr. Robert Apter: So we rely a lot on, on anecdotal things and data coming out of other countries that are less, less corrupted and less hidden than what we have here.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And it blows my mind how so many doctors are spiritually [00:36:00] blind to the fact of the safety signals with the covid shot. But then they'll turn around and say, well, I don't want my patient to get a dangerous medication like Ivermectin.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's, it's mind-boggling. And it's, it's a PSYOPs that's been done. It's a psychological operation and it's worked. It's worked to the nth degree.

Dr. Robert Apter: And even those doctors who, uh, recognize that the government narrative is, is a lie, are, are unable to fight the organizations that they depend on for their livelihood. Um, by going against the narrative I.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And, and for any doctor out there that that's questioning and wondering, you have to ask yourself, and this is the time to do it, because at some point it may be too late, but are you gonna sell your soul for money or are you gonna treat patients the right way and use evidence-based medicine.

Dr. Robert Apter: Yeah, I, I hear about young people that wanted to [00:37:00] go into medicine now that are having second thoughts and, and, uh, having a real difficult time with reconciling what they're seeing in, uh, medicine and what they would have to, uh, deal with in terms of corporate medicine and, and their. Goals. So that's, it's creating a real conundrum for a lot of young people and and that's unfortunate for us.

Dr. Robert Apter: And unfortunate for them.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. And, and if I had to do this over, I probably would've gone more of an, uh, a different route, maybe a naturopathic doctor. Um, as a do, it's a different philosophy to begin with, but it's still not different enough to, to be outside of that and be able to see patients, patients who, they're in this system where they're trapped in having to pay for.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: For healthcare with an insurance company. But then if I wanna open up a place myself, I would benefit from not accepting insurance because there's so many regulations that go along with that so that I'm not beholden to insurance companies and eventually beholden to the government.

Dr. Robert Apter: [00:38:00] Right. MyFreeDoctor was established on that, uh, principle. We do not accept insurance, but it's all donation-based too. It's not really, uh, a very profitable way for, uh, a doctor to, to practice. It is, uh, to a large extent volunteer.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. And, and people don't understand like how much it. How much time, effort, and dollars you give up to become a doctor and it's hard to just, to start accepting chickens and eggs again.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Uh, I wish we could do that, but I, you know, I'd like to be able to provide for my family too, and not just chickens and eggs. We got plenty of those.

Dr. Robert Apter: Well, when you look at things like the NIH, IHI think, I think they have, what, $50 billion a year under their budget. Um, and they're funding all this stuff to support big pharma, when really that's public money. Big pharma should be paying for [00:39:00] their own studies and their own investigational work. Uh, and that money should be spent on things that, that are not so profitable, like naturopathic and homeopathic medicine.

Dr. Robert Apter: But instead, those, those branches of medicine have been under active attack for a hundred years now, ever since the Flexner report. Yeah, I just got off. I, I now consider myself a recovering allopathic doctor, so I, I don't trust anything in allopathic medicine anymore after, because of my experience with Covid and the regulations and the corruption of the data, the corruption of the, of the guidelines, the corruption of the protocols, the corruption of what's in the medical journals.

Dr. Robert Apter: It's all corrupted to fit a narrative where there's, there's censorship and propaganda in order to promote. The interests of big pharma, big tech, and big government. And so I'm trying to learn as much as I can about alternative medicine, but I'm not in a general active practice anymore. I'm not trying to, I [00:40:00] I'm really at a point where I could be retired, so, uh, uh, I'm in a little different position.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. And I just, before we had this talk, and I'll probably publish it the week before this talk, but I was on with Dale Saran. And when I was talking with Dale Saran, he was saying that the government, so not just the FDA, not just the CDC, but also the DOD has immense contracts with these pharmaceutical companies.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And so these pharmaceutical companies are getting hand O money hand over fist to do research with FDA, CDC, HHS, and the DOD. And the problem with this is unless they're developing weapons, there should be no DOD money going to them, which makes you think if their contracts are bigger than Boeing, bigger than McDonnell, Douglas, then they're probably making weapons that are bigger than the F-thirty-five.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Bigger than nuclear weapons, bigger than missiles.[00:41:00]

Dr. Robert Apter: Well, the, the pharmaceutical industry is actually, um, a, uh, spends more on lobbying than, than the military. Or the, the military-related industries. It's the largest single, um, contributor to, uh, lobbying and congressional and, uh, governmental camp campaigns.

Dr. Robert Apter: And there seems to have been a lot of, uh, of defense department involvement in the whole covid response. If you read what's written by Paul Alexander and Sasha Latikova, it seems this, it seems like the entire, uh. Covid public health response was actually orchestrated by the military. I don't know that for a fact, but I don't discount it.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I've had Sasha Latipova on my show before and also, um, for about a year, I was reading this line in, it's called [00:42:00] Fragmentary Order number Five, and it's a, it's a order that the military put out and one of the portions of that, it says, and this is a paraphrase that. I'm gonna read what I thought it said, and I thought it said that Commanders are required to make sure there's enough FDA approved vaccine on hand to give to their service members.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: But in fact, after reading that multiple times over the course of a year, I finally realized, and this is what my frame reference did to it, this is my, I put my thoughts into it, what it actually said. It actually said that. Commanders will ensure there is enough DoD approved vaccine available on hand to provide to the service members.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, the DoD is not in the business of approving vaccines.

Dr. Robert Apter: I didn't hear the end of what you said there.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: The DOD is not in the [00:43:00] business of approving vaccines for anyone, so why would it say DOD approved vaccines on hand?

Dr. Robert Apter: Right? So you, you have to ask, you know, what's really behind all this? Why? Why are we doing things that are killing people and that is giving them vaccines that are killing people or so-called vaccines, which are really, you know, genetic altering injections.

Dr. Robert Apter: And why are we suppressing early treatment with mul, with, uh, multiple repurposed drugs, which in my opinion and experiences should be the standard of care. Well, I, I think you might be interested in the story of how I got, uh. Part of how I got interested in Covid, uh, I, somebody very close to me, uh, back in June of twenty-twenty, so this was before vaccines, this is early in the pandemic, uh, became very ill with Covid.

Dr. Robert Apter: I was still working in emergency medicine then, and, [00:44:00] uh, by very ill, I mean she, within forty-eight hours of onset, she had an oxygen saturation of eighty-two percent. And wouldn't go to the hospital. Uh, we had a lot of stuff for treatment at home. She, we were able to treat her with CPAP, which would normalize her oximetry, and she was dependent on that for about forty-eight hours.

Dr. Robert Apter: But I got her started on, um, what was then the Zelenko protocol was, uh. Zithromax and hydroxychloroquine and zinc. Uh, she started that about twenty-four hours after onset, and in another twenty-four hours hadn't improved and was hitting that oxygen saturation of eighty-two percent. She, she described it as being, like having an alien inside her body and she was convinced she was gonna die, but she still refused to go to the er.

Dr. Robert Apter: So at that time I was not, not convinced she was responding to that, those three medications. And we were just [00:45:00] starting to hear about Ivermectin. There was really, FLCCC hadn't come out with any protocols at that point in time, and there was very little written, I'd seen a, a few anecdotal reports about it, so I thought that's something we should try.

Dr. Robert Apter: I, I wrote her a prescription. I had to say it was for worms to get her the ivermectin and, but I didn't really know how to dose it at that point in time. There was nothing out there written about dosing it. So I thought, well, we should just give her what's used for worms, which would be a single 12 milligram dose.

Dr. Robert Apter: Now today, I would give her 30 milligrams a day for a couple of days, and then 15 milligrams a day until she's better. Some people would give her forty-five milligrams a day for five days, but I gave her a single dose of 12 milligrams, and then unbeknownst to me, she didn't really trust it, so she only took six milligrams.

Dr. Robert Apter: And then a few hours after that, she started to feel better, like maybe she wasn't going to die, so she [00:46:00] took the other six milligrams so that that actually seemed to turn her around and she recovered completely from that episode. So I, at that point thought, this is a miracle drug. We, we saw this kind of miraculous turnaround.

Dr. Robert Apter: Early on with the original bio weapon and some of the early variants, I don't, I haven't been seeing that more recently. I think actually Hydroxychloroquine may be more effective than Ivermectin with the current variants, but back, I still use the Ivermectin, but back then we were seeing some anecdotal reports that were just amazing like that, and I thought, you know, this is the most miraculous medicine I've used in my career.

Dr. Robert Apter: I've never seen a patient who is dying, take a few pills and recover completely. I mean, that's insane. And so, uh, but we were seeing that kind of thing. And it, it's hard to deny that [00:47:00] when you see it. Maybe. I know that's just one case, but there's a lot of, there's a lot of data about the benefit of Ivermectin and of course.

Dr. Robert Apter: Uh, there's probably a hundred published studies or more on, on Ivermectin. Maybe all but two or three of them show show benefit, but one of the tricks the pharmaceutical industry does with the complicity of big media, I. Is if they'll, they'll game the studies in such a way that they're structured so that they get closed before they reach statistical significance.

Dr. Robert Apter: Most of the, uh, the two or three studies that did not show benefit of ivermectin, supposedly, generally they were showing benefit, but it didn't reach statistical significance. And so the study gets terminated so that it doesn't show statistical significance, and then they trumpet it as proving that ivermectin is not effective.

Dr. Robert Apter: When it hasn't done any such thing, all it did was fail to reach statistical significance of benefit.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Another tactic I've seen them use and then that gets trumpeted through the meat. [00:48:00] Another tactic that I've seen them use is they will wait until the patient is so sick, so late in the course that ivermectin is no longer effective because it's, it's at a different point in the illness where it's a cytokine storm now rather than whatever toxin it is in that the ivermectin helped prevent from binding.

Dr. Robert Apter: Right, and, and using single drug, uh, comparisons, that, that doesn't really show the benefit of, uh, there seems to be a synergy, for example, between ivermectin and doxycycline and between, uh, hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin. So that's not being picked up by these studies at all.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Do you have any other patient stories where you saw a significant change in a patient, like, like that one you just described?

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And I love those stories. They're amazing.

Dr. Robert Apter: Well, I've had, I've had a lot of patients come to me who were hypoxic and then they turned around, although I've been using, you know, uh, combinations of, of, of drugs [00:49:00] for them. I think one of the, one of the biggest factors in the, uh, media collusion with Big Pharma has been the whole, uh, legalization of direct-to-consumer advertising.

Dr. Robert Apter: So that means that. Uh, I forget when that was started in the United States, but there's only a couple of countries in the world that allow that, of course in the United States being one. And because of that, uh, the pharmaceutical companies are a huge source of revenue for the media through that advertising.

Dr. Robert Apter: And that's a big part of why me is. So on board with the, the narrative for big Pharma.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Well, sir, thank you so much for coming on. Is there anything else that you wanna leave us with a way that people can get ahold of you if they need to or if people wanna support you?

Dr. Robert Apter: Yeah, I would encourage, as I said, I, I think every adult should have ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine in their medicine cabinet so that if they do [00:50:00] become sick with Covid, they can.

Dr. Robert Apter: Start early treatment, which is so, so important in preventing it from, from worsening, and uh, I can help them through MyFreeDoctor.com. I'm personally only licensed in Arizona and Washington, but we have doctors that are licensed in all 50 states. So it's MyFreeDoctor.com. You can, uh, go online, find us and register as a patient and get help.

Dr. Robert Apter: Uh, you can get help to prepare for covid and preventive medication. Uh, and we treat long covid as well.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Thank you. And vaccine injury. Yeah. Long covid and vaccine injury are the same symptoms and treated very similarly. Yes. Thank you, sir. Thank you so much for, for your stand. It's an honor to be on this side of this battle with you, uh, shoulder to shoulder.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I appreciate all that you're doing and, and I hope that, uh, you have success in these outcomes and, uh, [00:51:00] and the losses that you're in. Actually allowed me to be contacted by some lawyers who, who want to sue various entities on my behalf and make me a plaintiff in a similar incidence like you're in because of what the FDA said and how it's just a joke.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's just a joke. Uh, and so I, I greatly appreciate the position that you've, you've put yourself into with all the difficulty that comes along with it. And I, I certainly understand that and appreciate your stance.

Dr. Robert Apter: Well, thanks very much, Sam. Uh. Thanks for having me on. It's been a pleasure talking to you.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Thank you. God bless.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Just a reminder for everyone out there due to uniform of the day, the full armor of God. Let's all make courage more contagious than fear.[00:52:00]

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