97. Chewing the Fat With Alexander and Christanna

Today I talk with a married couple that has been on carnivore diet for about 3 years. They talk about their struggles prior to the dietary change and how much their life has imporoved since eating this way.
Please follow Alexander and Christianna on Instagram at: theredmeatarmy and thecarnivoreRx.
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97. Chewing the Fat With Alexander and Christanna
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Alexander: [00:00:00] I said, look, I'm either going to commit to being fat for the rest of my life, and I'm just going to eat whatever I want because I don't want to be thinking about food anymore. Or there has to be something out there that allows me to drop excessive fat. Feel good, sleep well at night, function properly.

Alexander: What is that diet and why is it so complicated? Why do I need 18 different ingredients to make one dish? Why can't I just have 2, 3, 4? What did we do before? And carnivore brings you back into this, the ancient ways of doing things. Welcome to After Hours with Dr.

Nurse Kelly: Sigoloff where he can share ideas and thoughts with you. He gets to the heart of the issue so that you can find the truth. The views and opinions expressed are his and do not represent the U. S. Army, DOD, nor the U. S. government. Dr. Sigoloff was either off duty or on approved leave, and Dr. Sigoloff was not in uniform at the time of recording.

Nurse Kelly: Now, to Dr. [00:01:00] Sigoloff.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Alright, thank you for joining me again. I want to first give a shout out to my Patreon supporters. I want to thank the anonymous family donor at 20. 20 a month. We have the Plandemic Reprimando level at 17. 76 a month with Ty, Charles, Tinfoil, Stanley, Dr. Anna, Frank, Brian, and Shell.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: We have Kevin, who's made his own level at 10. We have The Refined Not Burned at 5. With Linda, Emmy, Joe, Pat and Bev, PJ, Rebecca, Marcus, Elizabeth, Dawn, Jennifer, Ken. We have Addison Mulder at 3. Thank you. We have Frank at 1. 50. And then we have The Courage is Contagious at 1 a month with Amanda, Jay, Speznazdy, Durrell, Susan, BB King, and Rick.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And one of the benefits of that is you typically get an episode a few days. We're up to a week early before everyone else gets to see it. But today, I have a very special two guests, a married couple Alexander and Christiana. And they have been doing... Carnivore [00:02:00] for when did y'all first start?

Alexander: Oh The first time I attempted it was right around the start of covid so about three years ago right after jordan peterson did his interview with joe rogan that's when I first heard about it And then from then on we started, she started doing carnivore about a month after that but it wasn't true carnivore, it wasn't very strict carnivore, it was like carnivore plus Popeye's, carnivore plus ice cream, but it was obviously better than just, eating out at a restaurant every day and then in the last really month that's when month or two, we've really honed in the diet, been much more strict and, all the, any excess weight we've had, we've been just starting to shed it,

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: and you bring up a really good point because so often when people hear carnivore they're like, oh, I can't be that disciplined And it's not always being so disciplined, it's, let's make better choices today than we did yesterday. Let's do a little bit better today than we did, let's forgive ourselves for when we screwed up today, and let's make tomorrow better than today.[00:03:00]

Alexander: Sure, and even if you're just moving the needle in the right direction, every step in the right direction is still a step in the right direction, right? Because prior to doing Carnivore, we would essentially spend, a morning breakfast having nothing but pancakes, potatoes, eggs and then we'd go for lunch at a ramen shop and then we'd get dessert at a boba tea place.

Alexander: And then maybe there'd be a second breakfast since we're a hobbit. Like it was absurd, the amount of destruction we were doing to our body. And we were also living in a big city where, it's very easy to be too busy to cook for yourself. It's you're too busy to do the right thing.

Alexander: When COVID hit and I was starting to work at home and she, she. Still had to go into work because she's the medical professional. That gave me a lot of time to basically just cook at home. But after a while I started to realize cooking meat is very simple, very easy, very sustainable, very, like you don't have to think very hard about it, especially if it's just salt and pepper.

Alexander: So it's not complicated. It doesn't take a lot of time either. You can't even [00:04:00] burn steak, right? You sear it. So

Alexander: Exactly. So people are like, Oh, I burn water. Yeah. You'd sear a steak burning water. Okay. Now it's your turn to tell your side of the story. How did it go for you?

Christianna: Sorry. Super nervous. Yeah. So my husband told me about carnivore and me work. I'm a pharmacist. So when he first told me about that, I was like, no, you're Crazy, like you need the carbohydrates, you need the vegetables, it needs to be balanced, and as far as diet goes, like what he was mentioning, the ramen shops and the all you can eat Korean BBQ and boba tea and ice cream. Like, when we first started dating, that's all we did. Because it was fun, it was something that we enjoyed doing together. But, we realized soon after, after the weight gain and not feeling so good, that it wasn't going to be sustainable.

Christianna: He mentioned carnivore one day and said, I'm just going to eat steak every day. And I said, no, like at least have lettuce [00:05:00] or spinach or something with it, to be balanced and so he did it and I watched him do it and he showed me all the videos, looking into Jordan Peterson and hearing Michaela Peterson talk about her story.

Christianna: And then I got me really thinking like, wow, this is actually, he might actually be onto something. And that's when we came across Judy Cho's book, The Carnivore Cure and looked into that, read that. And I was like, wow, this is, it's very contradictory to everything that I had learned in school, everything that we grew up learning or was even taught, and.

Christianna: After he did it for a month, I gave it a try. It was very difficult for me growing up because I am Vietnamese, so we eat everything. We from the noodles to the,

Alexander: to the brain, to

Christianna: the and we love our sugar, our fish sauce and everything in between. I think that was one of the hardest things for me to really get into when he was just eating beef, salt, and water I really need my variety [00:06:00] understanding and really looking into the diet and seeing, Judy chose, laid out where yeah, you can have the variety actually there's a lot of different type of meats you can have. You can cook it in different ways, I definitely relied on the seasonings and sauces at first because my palate was, I need variety.

Christianna: I can't eat the same thing every day I think that is how I got into it. As far as the vegetables, I definitely lean into that. So I was more definitely doing keto than carnivore. But the more I looked into it, the more research I did and then just understanding how my body felt. Cause I think one of the really big surprises is as you cut out.

Christianna: So many different fillers and ingredients. Your body really is intuitive and it tells you exactly what it is that it needs. And so

Alexander: It also tells you how sensitive you are to something, if you're just shoveling everything in your mouth at the same time, it's like you're overloading the senses and in your digestive system.

Alexander: And when you're used to feeling a certain way, having a food coma after every meal, you just [00:07:00] think, Oh that's a signal that I ate really well. When you're, when you don't realize you have now overloaded your glucose system, your blood sugar spiked real high. Now you're crashing really hard.

Alexander: And you're about to pass out because your body thinks, Oh God, if I don't put you out, like you've done so much damage, I need to start repairing now. And then when you cut all that out, I went, when I went down originally, it was just salt and pepper. And then I realized I was starting to get really sick from the pepper.

Alexander: And I was like, it's black pepper. It's not even that much of it. It's ground. And it didn't matter. So I cut that out and this, okay, I guess it's just salt now. And it wasn't until more in the last three or four months we started introducing sodium, potassium, magnesium as a supplement and. One of my friends had told me that he found a doctor that talked about how if you have sodium and potassium present in your stomach at the same time, it actually helps to relax the sphincters that let you produce sulfuric acid.

Alexander: So if you have more of the acid in your stomach[00:08:00] you can actually digest and process a lot more things. So I said, okay, let me give this a try. Sure enough, after having some sodium and potassium in me it ended up completely changing the sensitivity that I had where now I can actually have like I can go get like a barbecue rub or something like that, I can sprinkle it on the crust of my steak and I'm not going to feel sick I'm not going to have stomach pains, I'm not going to overreact.

Alexander: It's just that's how my body responded. Now most people use that for the electrolyte because sodium is an electrolyte but for us we were just trying to feel better eating. I guess what is the point and that was the whole reason why we wanted to do carnivore Was you know, I said look I'm either gonna commit to being fat for the rest of my life And I'm just gonna eat whatever I want Because I don't want to be thinking about food anymore Or there has to be something out there That allows me to drop excessive fat feel good, sleep well at night, function properly.

Alexander: What is that diet and why is it so [00:09:00] complicated? Why do I need 18 different ingredients to make one dish? Why can't I just have 2, 3, 4? What did we do before? And carnivore brings you back into this, the ancient ways of doing things. When we were all hunter gatherers and we did not have agriculture, what did we have to do to survive?

Alexander: And that's the answer to that.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, I think that's a really good point is that with as fast pace as everything is these days, slowing down, taking those few extra minutes to cook at home. Taking those, cooking like we did 10, 000 years ago, where maybe we had some salt, maybe we didn't, and we cooked meat.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And, I think people probably ate plants only when there wasn't enough food to sustain them. But the food that they ate, was the only food source available across every continent that humans live on in every season. It's animals. It's clearly animals. And you had mentioned with some of your...

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Familial history, cultural history, background, you have, y'all eat some strange things. I grew up Hispanic, I'm half Hispanic, and we eat some strange things, too. Cheeks of cow, tongue of cow, eyeball of cow. I've [00:10:00] had sheep brain. I won't eat brains of animals now because of Creutzfeldt Jakob disease, because of my concern for that.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: But the internal organs, those are considered strange things to eat. They're actually one of the healthiest things to eat, and they're one of the most cost effective things to purchase. And so it's really interesting how so many of these cultures, they eat those. Like manudo. Maybe without the pepper these days but the stomach lining is very good for you.

Alexander: Yeah.

Christianna: Yeah, that's definitely something that we in the Asian culture, too. Like pho, you have tendon, you have tripe, it makes a really good soup. So

Alexander: I grew up a lot more whitewashed. So it was mostly like bread, potatoes. I'm half Hispanic too, but it was mostly like the arroz con pollo and all that kind of stuff.

Alexander: I, I didn't have a lot of the exotic wild foods until I met her. I didn't even grow up eating shrimp or pork or anything like that. It was basically just beef and chicken and Turkey my whole life. And then I met her and then, with. I sit down at a meal with [00:11:00] her family. It's like there is no chicken.

Alexander: There is no beef. There is no turkey. It's all shrimp, crab, crawfish the whole nine yards. It is just one of those little differences. And I did find some sensitive sensitivities to food that I didn't eat growing up, but for the most part, as I've tried all the different meats, it seems as though and I've heard this from a lot of people have a similar reaction.

Alexander: It seems as though beef is king in the sense that not only is it king nutritionally has the most nutrients per pound of meat that you're going to eat But, I just feel way better. If I ate nothing but chicken, I think I'd feel very famished. If I ate nothing but shrimp, I'd feel very famished.

Alexander: Even if I soaked it in butter, I'd feel famished. But beef, it just seems to settle everything, and then I'm not going crazy hungry, and I'm not, wanting to throw her off a building because I'm so hungry because she doesn't want to let me eat yet.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: One thing I discovered with beef, there was this [00:12:00] one particular place that I would, when I was living in Alaska, I'd have to go work at a distant site. It would be, hour and a half drive and I'd be there for a few days and I'd go to The PX they have there or the commissary, I'm sorry, it's like a grocery store, and buy their beef, and I'd cook it, and I always get sick afterwards.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And then one time I did a reverse sous vide, where you put it in some water, and, actually, no, I just, it's not a sous vide, but it's yeah, I guess it is sous vide, where you boil it in water to cook it a little bit, then you sear it. Yeah. And I didn't get sick that time. And I did some research into it, and they, some beef, they'll actually spray things on it to keep from growing.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And so if you notice you're getting sick from beef, look into it, see if that might be the issue. And so from then on, I'd always soak it in water, boil it a little bit first to cook it. And then I'd sear it. And I never got sick again. It was the strangest thing because beef had never made me sick my entire life until I started going to this remote place.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And it's very remote Alaska. And I guess they put that on there to keep the meat. To make it last longer.[00:13:00]

Alexander: Yeah, it's very interesting. We, like I said, we used to live in a city and on the East coast and now we're in the Midwest, there's more cows and people out where we live now. And so where we're shopping, we actually shop at a local butcher shop as opposed to the grocery store. You know the one we have in town But we shop at a butcher shop and most of the meat, we know the butcher We know exactly what they do with it.

Alexander: The cow was probably killed yesterday. It was probably killed that morning. We're getting something super fresh You know if it's been frozen, it's in that negative 30 degree freezer so even if it's been sitting there for a week, which is unlikely because people just buy that stuff up like it's water, we're very fortunate to be right next to a lot of access to something that's literally farm to table in the truest sense.

Alexander: But if we were back in the city, I'd be looking for as close to that as I could find. So instead of in the beginning, what we were doing was going to Costco and just getting the [00:14:00] bulk whole. whole New York loins. And then I would take it home and cut it up myself, right? I'd sharpen my own knives and then I'd cut my own steak so I could have them as thicker, as thin as I wanted.

Alexander: And then I think the next step for us at that point would have been to find some kind of either local butcher in the city or find a butcher that operates out of a ranch just outside the city. So maybe we have to travel 30 minutes to an hour one way to get there. But now we have the farm there and we can talk to the farmer.

Alexander: We can buy cow in bulk. So if we need half a cow, if we need quarter of a cow and then whatever comes with that, all the ground beef we can even ask for the organs. We can ask for the the beef tallow, which is fantastic to do because they normally throw that stuff away. So if you ask a butcher or rancher, or even if you go to the grocery store, sometimes they just have all these trimmings just left over.

Alexander: You can ask for that. Stick it in some heat, whether it's oven or I like using a crock pot cause that seems to not burn it [00:15:00] and ends up coming out really nice. And then you can use that as your cooking grease. And I use cast irons almost exclusively. And I season my pans with beef tallow. So I'm not worried about, introducing vegetable oils or flax seed or rapeseed or anything like that.

Alexander: Into the cooking process. We've gone as far as we could to basically make sure if it's in our body, it's coming from an animal. And then there are exceptions to it on a rare occasion. Whether it's for social or where we've been traveling and we don't have access to what we would normally want to have.

Alexander: And if you go to a steakhouse, sometimes you can ask them to cook whatever they're cooking in butter, right? Because they normally don't have tallow but if you wanted to get, your steak seared, you can ask for them to, cook it with butter instead of with canola oil, which is what you would normally find, either canola or vegetable oil.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, and I think that's a very good distinction that you're making is get all the vegetable oils out of the foods that you're eating, out of even seasoning the pan. Because it's, that's what causes a lot of the metabolic disease that we're seeing. [00:16:00] So when we get those seed, nut oils, and the vegetable oils, it causes metabolic problems.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And that's what leads to metabolic disease, leads to diabetes, leads to hypertension, leads to all these disease processes. Leads to facial swelling. You can usually tell how fit a person is. Even if they look thin, they'll have lots of facial swelling around the neck, around the cheeks. And you can tell, and there is an episode I did with someone that I went out to eat, I made the best choice I could, but for three weeks my face was swollen from the amount of vegetable oils that was put in the food that I thought I was making a good choice, but I clearly wasn't.

Alexander: Yeah, it taxes on you pretty quick, especially once you've eliminated for a while. And you start reintroducing some things, you sit down at a nice steakhouse and you start saying yes to the bread and then suddenly you realize, Oh my gosh, my, I'm sleeping different. I'm feeling different. My brain feels different.

Alexander: You could even start having just symptoms of slight depression or you're just a little more moody and maybe you're upset a little easier, more irritable, [00:17:00] so there's a whole, Swath of things that change when you've eliminated everything and you start reintroducing these foods, you start to see how much your body can really tolerate that stuff.

Alexander: And some people can tolerate some stuff fine, right? They'll reintroduce fried chicken and be like, oh, this is fine, I don't care. Or they'll reintroduce something simple just white rice and they go, yeah, I probably wouldn't do it every day, but it didn't make me feel sick.

Alexander: Other people, they'll have, a total At the borderline anaphylactic reaction to this kind of stuff, they'll start, feeling dizzy. They'll go to the hospital, stick it up. You put it in your arm. It's like what is going on, right? Because you suddenly are having a much harder reaction to the food now that you've gotten it all out of your system.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So what are some physical health changes? If you don't mind, as in depth or as shallow as you want to go to, I don't want to pressure to say anything that you don't want to say about your personal health, but what are some things that some changes that each one of you have seen?

Christianna: Yeah, for sure.

Christianna: For me, I think the biggest, as far as health issues, I [00:18:00] would say acne was one of our, my big ones, acne my quality of sleep. And I actually had, I think one of the biggest motivations to do the carnivore diet is for the anti inflammatory benefits. In 2021, I was actually on my one wheel on my way home from work.

Christianna: And I had fallen the day right before Thanksgiving and I thought it was no big deal. I had gone over that bump countless times, million times, but I had fallen on my elbow. Just perfectly so that I fractured my the head of my radius. I ended up having surgery on it. I have a couple screws in there now.

Christianna: They're permanent. The doctor had recommended that I get surgery so that it would hopefully prevent arthritis in the future. But knowing so, just moving on from that, I realized I'm going to have to change my diet if I want to make sure that, I can use my arm. And it's my. Right arm, which is my main preferred arm.

Christianna: I think [00:19:00] that was one of my biggest motivations for that. As far as acne. completely clear, completely fixed. I know I've done something wrong or had something or indulged when I do have acne. And that's very rare now. And then sleep. I would say, I think when I first started carnivore, I think that was one of the biggest things I wake up in the morning.

Christianna: Deepest sleep, completely refreshed, didn't have to sleep too many hours either. Growing up, I've always not really slept too much. Maybe about six, seven hours and I was good. But as I got older, six or seven hours started to get really... I still felt really exhausted, in the morning but after switching to that diet, I, six, seven hours, got up in the morning, completely fine, refreshed didn't need any coffee, didn't need tea.

Christianna: I started to rely a lot on tea. I'm very sensitive to caffeine and coffee, so I never really got into that, but I started to drink a lot of tea prior to getting onto Carnivore, and after I went on Carnivore, I pretty much don't need anything to really wake up anymore, and I wake up, So I think that [00:20:00] was some of the biggest benefits for me

Alexander: and it's fast too.

Alexander: She's waking up within, she pops up out of bed and within two minutes, she's fully alert and ready to go. I'm trying to have conversations with him and he's I can't even do it. Don't talk to me. I'm not ready yet. Let me at least shower and brush my teeth or I don't want to feel better before I open my mouth.

Alexander: But for her, she's just, she's up and she's asking questions. It's Oh my God what the heck is this? Yeah. So it's a total difference. And as far as the arthritis goes, like whenever she had her surgery initially, there's a lot of inflammation, obviously after an initial surgery. And so she could tell right away, why don't you tell them about it, the, when you'd have a little flare up and you could feel the stiffness in your arm.

Christianna: Oh yeah, it would get really stiff. I wouldn't say it was very painful or not, but it was just very stiff and sore and hard to move. And I would say therapy, oh my gosh, I had never done physical therapy before. I'd never broken anything until that day. And gosh, therapy was terrible.

Christianna: It hurt. They had to stretch it. Actually, it got to the point where [00:21:00] I had to use, oh gosh, it was the contraption where you put your arm in and there are like little tiny screws that you had to tighten. And you would just continually tighten

Alexander: Until you finally,

Christianna: right. And I had to do that for a couple of weeks.

Christianna: It was awful. Yeah. My therapist really didn't want me to have to do it, but it wasn't really budging either way. So I'm pretty sure being on that diet helps recovery at least much faster. And I have full range of motion now, weight bearing everything and I have no issues with it. Yeah.

Christianna: And I, yeah. It's funny. One of the first things he made for me after I had gotten out of surgery was an oxtail soup. I would say probably that helped me a lot. He basically just cooked broiled oxtail, made it into a soup with some salt, and that's what I lived on for a couple days. I'd say that probably helped a lot.

Alexander: Yeah. She also, basically gave birth to a [00:22:00] carnivore baby, went through a whole pregnancy carnivore. Yeah,

Christianna: that was really interesting. Yeah, the first trimester was really difficult. I had actually reached out to Judy on that one, because, so I got pregnant with our son last year.

Christianna: And there really, I couldn't really find too much information about carnivore pregnancy, or if there was, it was... There were a lot of disclaimers and whatnot, and there was nothing really definitive about it. When I actually looked at it recently, a month or so ago, I found out that Dr. Kiltz has something now, and I think Judy came out with something else too, but Navigating that during my pregnancy was, it was actually difficult, and so I, we just went with how I felt.

Christianna: Doing carnivore impregn When pregnant, that first trimester was really difficult. I had a lot of meat aversion and I found out now that it's basically because the stomach acid has reduced and so you need that to digest your meat and so your body tries to stay away from that just mainly because of it.

Christianna: But yeah, so that first trimester [00:23:00] was tough. I definitely stayed, I still stayed away from the grains. But I relied heavily on dairy. My husband actually would make me this Alfredo sauce with just Parmesan, heavy cream, and some salt.

Alexander: Yeah, that was it. Parmesan, heavy cream, salt, a little bit of butter.

Alexander: And and then we'd pull apart a rotisserie chicken and just put it in there like it was a, like it was a soup, you

Christianna: know, I had that basically on everything. So like the ground beef. Yeah, it was awesome. I think that's what really helped me. So I, what I found is increasing the fat. And the dairy and then, after the first trimester, I was able to eat steak again, couldn't definitely could not stomach the medium rare that.

Christianna: It's how I usually like it, but yeah, for the well done

Alexander: seared giving birth is a very bloody experience, very traumatizing,

Christianna: but after that I would read it to, how well that pregnancy actually went, [00:24:00] I was a little nauseous, I think the first trimester, but that was pretty much it. I didn't have any vomiting issues.

Christianna: I, in the second trimester, it was wonderful. I probably worked and functioned as if I wasn't pregnant obviously my stomach was growing. And so that was an obstacle. But other than that, I felt great. Every time I went to the to talk to the doctor about, how I was doing and updates, blood work, et cetera, like everything looked fantastic.

Christianna: My blood pressure stayed great throughout the entire pregnancy, and we really didn't run into any issues. And I would say, being on that. More protein and fat based diet helped me a lot tremendously, and as far as the weight gain for the pregnancy, I did gain about 40, 50 pounds, but I felt great, and lost it immediately right after the pregnancy, pretty much lost all of it.

Alexander: And it's most of it's water weight, you're trying to. Keep the baby alive. You're trying to give the baby its body. And who knows, maybe some of the, the fact that she was a very boring patient for a doctor, right? Maybe some of that is a little bit of the genetic gift that she [00:25:00] has.

Alexander: But, she, like she was saying, the glucose was steady. The blood pressure was steady. There was, they check it and they'd be like You're normal, there was nothing wrong. They were looking for something to be wrong and they couldn't find it, right? So at the very least, what we can know from our personal experience is that at least we were doing something that we know wasn't harming the pregnancy in addition to that.

Alexander: It because it was good for her body in general, regardless of the pregnancy, we assume that it was eliminating small factors. And, instead of having a super clean, super boring pregnancy, maybe she could have had a little bit of morning sickness and that could have been as bad as it got if she was on a normal diet.

Alexander: But we would have never known because we never did it before. We don't plan on, sticking her on the traditional American diet for the future, pregnancy. So it's not really experiment we're trying out. Yeah. But that's just how it worked out for us.

Christianna: And we were really lucky that I had a really open to it too.

Christianna: Initially I was a little scared to tell her. I was like, Oh yeah, no, [00:26:00] we wouldn't

Alexander: tell her.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Usually advise patients. To say the modified Mediterranean diet, they're going to tell another doctor that they're doing

Alexander: something like this. We told them it was a non restrictive ketogenic diet

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: What's amazing is you know, so many doctors will get so upset by this because there's little known There's not a lot of research on it. But if you look at a, like a newborn baby, one hour after they breastfeed, which is the normal way to do things, that's how the, humans have been doing this for 10, 000 years is breastfeeding, not some man made stuff we've been using, and obviously there are some women that have difficulty with breastfeeding, and so it's not possible for everyone, but when a baby, less than a year old, is breastfed, they're in ketosis within an hour after breastfeeding.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: How can you make the claim that it's dangerous if a newborn baby is in ketosis [00:27:00] within an hour after breastfeeding? And, they eat pretty often, but at some point they get within four hours of eating and they're still in ketosis. And so it's, to make the claim that ketosis is bad for the human is, it's pretty tough to make that claim.

Alexander: Yeah, that's true, and a lot of doctors would probably argue you can't breastfeed your whole life. And you could argue that's because mothers give up too soon, right? The 33 year olds, they should be breastfeeding too. But no, obviously they're, your body does change as you get older, but there are some foundational things that don't, right?

Alexander: Like you're saying, the being in the state of ketosis inherently is not bad because it's something you do from the beginning in the same way. Eating something is not inherently bad, right? We may be eating bad things, but the actual process of, eating food at all is not actually detrimental to your body.

Alexander: We have to eat. The second you stop eating, when all your muscle and all your fat stores are gone, you've got a few days left to live and then you're gone.[00:28:00]

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: What's really interesting about newborns and, I think yours is probably too young for y'all to start seeing this. Our kids are a little bit older.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And it really hits you when you're eating this way and you're breastfeeding and you're like, Okay, so the child is eating, nature's way of feeding a child is It's sugar and fat. That's breast milk. It's got sugar, so carbs and fat. Humans, adult humans don't typically eat sugar or carbs and fat together.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: But it's a great way to gain weight. That's why cows, baby cows do it, baby sheep do it, baby humans do it. Because it's a great way to put on weight quickly. And you have... Those babies get teeth, and then those teeth eventually fall out by the time they're, 4, 5, 6, they start falling out, and they get their adult teeth.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And that's around the time that they quit breastfeeding. So it's interesting that you quit eating sugar, and then you get a new set of teeth to last you for the rest of your life. And most human diets, if you look back at the traditional diets, they didn't have a lot of sugar or carbs in them, because if they did, they wouldn't have any teeth, and then they wouldn't live very long.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: If you don't have teeth, you don't have a blender, [00:29:00] because it's 10, 000 years ago, you're dying. It's that simple. And if you look at humans, and you look at the skulls of humans 10, 000 years ago, their teeth were pristine, perfect, strong, straight. Their jaws were actually bigger, so they didn't have to have their wisdom teeth taken out.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: That was just the next set of teeth that they got as they got older.

Alexander: Isn't that amazing that the, as far as we've come as a civilization, we've become weaker than we've ever been?

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's, yeah, we think we're stronger, but we're... Most likely, not as smart as we were then, because we're not eating as much saturated fat. And the brain is the fattiest organ in the body. We're giving people statins to reduce, or to change how they metabolize saturated fat.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And one of the obvious side effects is a brain fog. As a pharmacist, you... You know that, you see that, and then we're confused as to why are they having brain fog when we give them this medication that alters how we metabolize fat when our brain is the fattiest organ in the body.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: It's like taking your computer out in the back, kicking it around, plugging it back in, and expecting it to work the

Alexander: same. It [00:30:00] might if it's a, if it's a Mac, it might work. That'll piss off all the Microsoft people, but... PC Master Race, yeah, whatever.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: So as a pharmacist, I'm sure you're wanting to do this. And I don't know what the legalities of this, because I'm not a pharmacist, but coaching patients on diet and how they can potentially reduce their medications, Since no one here is a patient of yours, I want to give you the platform to talk about how changing diet can help one reduce medications.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And again, there is no medical advice given here because there is no patient, there's no established patient relationship here. So this is just two people talking and take the information as you will.

Christianna: Yeah. As for my journey and my husband's journey and just learning about this diet, Carnivore is what they call the ultimate elimination diet.

Christianna: And when you are able to eliminate a lot of the different factors that you're putting into your body is able to heal.[00:31:00] And fix itself, fix that lining in your gut fix the microbiome in there so that you're able to digest and whatnot. And a lot of the diseases that you see today, diabetes, hypertension are caused by our body not being as effective, after all the damage that it has taken, like you had mentioned the seed oils and whatnot, right?

Christianna: So it's not as effective anymore. And so by taking medication, sure, you can take a medication to help fix something. But the way that I see it now is that a lot of medications are just bandages, You can take something to help bring your blood pressure down. But, to actually fix the root cause of why your blood pressure is high in the first place what we're finding is that diet can fix that, or, for example type 2 diabetes. Being able to fix your diet so that you can actually have your body function to its fullest is... going to help you in the long run versus having to, just take the typical pills or take insulin[00:32:00] to help lower it. And it's just temporary.

Christianna: It's not going to fix it. And so what I've learned is that if you're able to get onto a diet carnivore in particular you're able to allow your body to heal itself. Once the body is able to heal itself, and reset itself then you don't need the medications anymore. You don't have to rely on taking something every morning or every evening or in the middle of the day.

Christianna: Your body is actually fully capable of doing that itself. You just have to allow for it, give it the opportunity to do so for you.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And so a couple things that I want to talk about with you is. I completely agree with carnivore to heal, and I think for some people that it's sustainable, they can do it for the rest of their lives with no problem I think some people can be a little difficult. And so I think that they give and take on that because we have to look in a real world and make life better for people, not just make something that's unsustainable.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And so for patients that have significant medical illnesses I'll suggest carnivore and if they're willing to do it, [00:33:00] I'll tell them, Hey, let's just try it for a month. Many of them at the end of the month are like, life is so much better, I'm never going back. But some of them, they want to start introducing new foods, which I think is fine.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: But... I have this kind of tear step approach. Keep the processed foods out completely, like none of them , right? If you wanna stay healthy, and then you know if you can keep the vegetables out, okay, keep the vegetables out because they make poisons and toxins, which can hurt you. Introduce some fruits, see which ones don't bother you, and then, and see which ones you can enjoy that way and see if that gives you the variety that, that some people.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Feel they require,

Alexander: right?

Christianna: Yeah, I definitely agree with you on that too. I understand even through our journey doing the whole carnival. Like we, we have, there are days where we get it perfect. And then there are days where we're not as perfect. And it's a work in progress and it's learning and It's really just, getting to know yourself because I think one of the coolest things about this diet is just really getting to know your body, going back to like side [00:34:00] effects.

Christianna: So we know we've had something or indulged if we have gas now or constipation, when we're on the diet I probably have a bowel movement every couple of days and it's normal and it's, and I feel great. When I was on a regular standard American diet, it had to be every day, maybe twice a day.

Christianna: If I didn't, I felt terrible, but on this diet, if I go every couple of days, no big deal. I don't feel any pressure or any pain or anything like that. It's just, you go when you need to go and it's completely fine. For anyone who wants to go on this diet, like you had mentioned, some people continue, have done it for 10, 12 12 plus years and love it.

Christianna: And then there are some people who just do it for a couple of months, just so that they can get to a good place, a good weight, feel better and then may try to want to incorporate foods back into to their diet. And that's okay too. The important thing is being intuitive about it and listening to your body.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: I agree. I think one of the interesting things about the poop part of it is really interesting, especially since you have a newborn or a very young one, is with kids babies is [00:35:00] when they're breastfed, they digest everything and they turn it into a lot of urine and a little bit of poop.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And yeah, sure, some babies can poop seven times a day or once in seven days, but you'll notice that they don't poop very much for as much as they take in. And the reason is. Their GI tract absorbs all of the stuff and they turn it into their body. And when you're eating this way, it's almost like it was designed this way, but your body can digest everything.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And there's very little waste that comes out of you when you're eating carnivore, even if you're eating, a two pound ribeye, there's not a lot of waste that's left over from that. Most of it is taken and used. Yep.

Christianna: Yeah I 100% agree. With our, so our son right now is nine months old and he.

Christianna: When he was first born, it was, he probably had two or three big poops a day. But once he got to about three or four months old it was maybe just once a day. And now, I'd say for the past month and a half, two months, it's been probably every three days is when he would actually have a really big poopy diaper.

Christianna: But, he has a wet diaper [00:36:00] everyday multiple wet diapers, but as far as the actual poop or fecal matter, it's every couple days. And he's fine. He's not complaining or dis it, having any discomfort or anything like that,

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: yeah. And that's one important thing with people who try this eating way is they go, Oh no, I haven't pooped in a day or two and they're like, I must be constipated.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Constipation is more than just the number of. Bowel movements you have in a day or in a week, it's are you uncomfortable? Do you feel backed up? Do you try and go and nothing comes out? That's more of the issue or like

Christianna: the urge to need to go, right? So for me and my normal every couple of days, but I don't have that urge to go.

Christianna: It's just, okay, I'm going to go and then you go and. Relieve and that's it. But there's no dis, you're, like you had mentioned, there's no discomfort or pain or anything associated, or I really have to go, but it's not coming out.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. And those are issues we see with people who have IBS or irritable bowel syndrome.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And this can cure a lot of that for [00:37:00] most people. And personally, I know if I eat something I shouldn't have, I know I'm going to pay for that with bowel discomfort.

Alexander: That's very true.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Interesting thing I was listening to another podcast where a doctor was talking and he was talking about blood pressure problems and how, you mentioned that we're just putting band aids on it.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And he brought up an interesting idea that blood pressure is actually elevated to compensate for whatever injury is happening. And so perhaps trying to lower the blood pressure to get rid of that compensation may not be a good thing. It may be best to get to the root cause and fix it that way.

Christianna: Yeah, I definitely agree with you.

Christianna: Just going back to your body is, your body knows what it needs to do. And so when it's trying to fight decrease your blood pressure because it's really high or release a lot of insulin because there's a lot of sugar floating around or glucose floating around, it's trying to compensate for something that's going wrong in the body.

Christianna: And so going back to the diet, if you're able to fix. You allow your body to heal and fix itself and essentially you don't need to have to worry about it.[00:38:00]

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And I think before when we spoke, I told you about this, but I had a patient who was taking 80, that's 8 0 units of insulin every day. And on the first week of carnivore, and just want to throw a little disclaimer out there that every time I have a patient that's on anything that lowers their insulin or is injecting insulin into a patient, anything to lower their sugar or increase their insulin, sorry, I always make them be on a continuous glucose monitor.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And the reason is, this patient went from 80 units down to 10 units in the first week of carnivore. Wow,

Christianna: that's incredible, actually.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And within two months was off all pills, all medications, all insulin, all everything, including blood pressure medications. Wow,

Christianna: that's fantastic. And has the patient

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: continued? Sorry, did I say two weeks? I meant two months. Oh, okay. It's been over two years now, and it was at a different duty station, so I would imagine they've continued.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Okay.

Christianna: That's super exciting. I so going back to [00:39:00] the continuous glucose monitoring, I was actually on that during my first pregnancy. I guess what's really interesting and I did some research on it but I guess I'm not too sure I have a specific answer. Maybe you might have something to add to it.

Christianna: But as far as the glucose intolerance test, right? So I had done this during the pregnancy. I actually failed it. And then I actually did the three hour test and I also failed that as well. But I mean the only thing I could really. Who come to reason with is, my body isn't used to, the shock isn't used to that amount of glucose and it doesn't have a reserve of insulin ready to just pull it out of the system.

Christianna: When I looked at the numbers, I was pretty much normal after I would say, 'cause if you fail two measurements, I think is when you fail the test completely. I would fail the first two, but shortly after that it would, my blood sugar would go back to normal. So if you have an answer to that'd be super great as to why that happened, or if that's something that does happen if you are on Conivor, or if you even should be [00:40:00] doing a glucose tolerance test in a pregnant patient if you are on Conivor, and if it is even reliable.

Christianna: But I ended up being on a continuous glucose monitor for the rest of my pregnancy. And what was really interesting that I found is that, my blood sugar levels were... consistent throughout the day. If I had a little bit of sugar, which I experimented with, because I did have one, I would have some honey, you'd see the spike.

Christianna: But it would come back down. My blood sugar was always higher in the morning ranging, like on average, about 99 to 100. And then it would decrease throughout the day. Just settle about 65 to 70 towards the end of the day. It, as I ate. What I guess what I learned from that was they call it a dawn phenomenon, that sometimes when you are very low carb your glucose level tends to be a little bit higher in the mornings, but then it regulates throughout the day.

Christianna: But I guess that's not really a question, but yeah, that's interesting. That's something that I learned from my pregnancy. Yeah.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah.[00:41:00]

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Okay. Can I tag team you with Alexander?

Christianna: Yeah, so he's actually our son just woke up.

Alexander: So our screaming baby, you know how it is when he wakes up and he goes, Mama, there's nobody that can... Yeah. Not dada, not grandpa.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah, the blooper reel at the end. Yeah. Okay, so now that you've we've switched off so we can take care of the little one.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Yeah. So tell me some of the health benefits that you've noticed, some, things that for some people may not seem like a big deal, but it could be a life changing thing

Alexander: for you. If we're talking big macro before we get to the specifics, the big macro is that my body just feels better.

Alexander: It's a very difficult way to explain it. But the overall is I sleep better, I wake up better, I have better energy throughout the day. I'm not, when I'm hungry, hunger is different. Hunger is, it's closer to a suggestion, not a demand, right? Like before it, hunger [00:42:00] was somebody has a gun up to my head and if I don't eat, the trigger's going off, right?

Alexander: And that's just what it is. But When you're eating high protein in general high protein, high fat in general, but especially when you're getting the nutrients you need, my body seems to be much better off with beef than anything else. Suddenly hunger is no longer a demand.

Alexander: You get this sense that, okay it's telling me that I'm hungry, but if I wait a half an hour, It's not a big deal. Or if I'm busy, right? And I can't eat right in two hours past, I'm not angry that I haven't eaten. I might feel like the suggestion is getting a little stronger. Hey, it's been a couple hours.

Alexander: Can you at least drink water, please? And then drinking water may actually pacify me just a little bit. But but on the specifics yeah, sleep was definitely much, much better. One thing I was doing for a long time up until this last couple of months was I was having a lot of coffee, mostly drip coffee about, I don't really know how much.

Alexander: When I [00:43:00] say a cup, the mug could be, this big, so I'm having one or two of those, so it could be a lot of coffee, but, I was just having black coffee. I wasn't having any dairy or sugar or stevia or nothing with it, just straight black. I could have espresso on occasion if I was out and about, and I wouldn't want a big latte or anything like that.

Alexander: And, there was a point very early when I started the diet I had gone to an endocrinologist to have my hormones tested and she said, congratulations, everything with your thyroid and your hormones are normal, except, it looks like there's something going on with your adrenal glands I want to get some imaging.

Alexander: I want to take a look at it. And I ended up never actually getting the imaging I needed because none of the clinics or services for imaging could provide the images that my doctor wanted. And then she couldn't change her mind on the type of imaging before I ended up moving. I never got the conclusion on that, but What I started doing, I bought a book, I can't remember the name of the author, it's called Caffeine [00:44:00] Blues and it goes into the details of how caffeine reacts with the human body and how some people have greater tolerance for caffeine and how some don't, and because everyone's threshold is on a sliding scale not everyone can have.

Alexander: Three cups of coffee a day and some people can have Ten cups of coffee a day and it not have a huge negative impact on their system And one of the things that you mentioned was That your adrenal glands are responsible for producing cortisol and I always knew that caffeine does Create a cortisol response in your body.

Alexander: It is a stressor to your body And so I said I remember a couple of years ago. I was having You know, what may be at its very best, just adrenal fatigue. Why don't I cut out the coffee, see how that goes. And I saw an Andrew Tate video recently where he said he cut out coffee in prison and he was like, yeah, I just felt sleepy.

Alexander: It sucked. I went back to coffee. I'm going to be caffeinated all the [00:45:00] time. And and I had tried that, and yeah, that's exactly how I felt. I was sleepy all the time. The headache, I only had a headache for a day, and it wasn't even that bad. So I didn't even take anything for it. I just dealt with it.

Alexander: But for an entire month, I felt like I could not wake up. It would take me an hour to get out of bed. It was absolutely awful. Terrible experience, but the book was talking about how that could be part of your withdrawal symptoms. You could actually have legitimate exhaustion for a month, two months, three months before you actually feel normal again.

Alexander: For me it was about a month and maybe about a week. So after about that four or five weeks I woke up just about as fast as my wife does. I still don't want to talk because I want to brush my teeth, but at least I'm alert, right? She says something and I hear it. It doesn't just sound like a ringing symbol or anything like that.

Alexander: The coffee made a, cutting out the coffee for me made a big difference. My body does seem to be very sensitive to food in particular, more than a lot of people. I have terrible seasonal allergies on the East coast because of the [00:46:00] density of trees and the amount of flower pollen, tree pollen, grass pollen.

Alexander: I'm unbelievably allergic to all of it. Moving to the Midwest actually did help that because we do not have the trees out here. don't even have the density. If there is a tree like these, there's not even that many of them. And, that's just how it is. So I don't really suffer from the seasonal allergies this far, if you were to draw a line from Kansas city, basically West of that, it seems to be okay for me.

Alexander: And then just food in general, right? All it took was I think after some time during the carnivore diet when we were doing carnivore plus ice cream I started noticing that when we would go out to Dairy Queen and I would just get, the same blizzard that I would always get and I wouldn't be having three of them a day.

Alexander: I'd eat perfectly throughout the day. And at the end of the day, I would have a dessert, right? About an hour or two before I went to bed. And I started noticing that My heart felt like it was about to jump out of my chest, and it was an awful feeling, and I knew it was the sugar. I knew immediately it was the sugar.

Alexander: So I [00:47:00] stopped getting Dairy Queen, tried to find a lower sugar alternative, and then that's when I realized this has gotta go too. And I tried doing the no sugar, make your own ice cream. I bought an ice cream maker and everything. It's just not the same, so I said, you know what I will mourn it a long lost dog or something like that, and hopefully I can get another one later.

Alexander: But I ended up having to cut that out too. And cutting out the sugar, cutting out the inflammation. It's all these little things add up to the larger picture of you feel better. And I could go on for a long time about what things made me feel what way. But I'd say that the biggest ones were sugar and caffeine.

Alexander: Alright, so when I cut out caffeine, even green tea, I even tried decaf coffee for a little while. I was like, let me just try two weeks of decaf. This'll be great. Nope, can't even do that. And then I found out that decaf coffee is used as a pesticide. And then I was like... Yeah. I don't want to do that.

Alexander: So it just, it didn't work out for me to be able to have a little bit of sugar here and there, a little bit of caffeine here and there for other people. It may [00:48:00] be totally fine and it may be totally fine for some people to, once once a week have, a bowl of rice, no bigger than the size of your hand, maybe, but it depends on your lifestyle.

Alexander: It depends on your goals. It depends on your level of activity. It depends on your genetics. There's so many things that it depends on. I know if I was working out three hours a day, I could probably be eating fruit and honey all day and be totally fine. But I'm not working out three hours a day.

Alexander: I don't have a physical activity that I enjoy for three hours at a time. So you know, maybe 30 minutes, 45 minutes. And you're alluding to

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Saladino, how he calls himself the carnivore doctor, but he's eating piles of fruit and honey a day, which is fine. He eats an animal based meal, which I think is good.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: But he also surfs three hours a day, which is an incredibly physically

Alexander: active sport. It is. And I think it should also speak to the What does your body do when you are exercising? I think Saladino actually does I don't [00:49:00] think he's self aware of it. So he doesn't preach it in his message. But one of the things that I do seeing is the fact that if you are working out three hours a day, That makes a difference.

Alexander: There is a physiological change that happens within you when you build all this muscle, when you are enduring this activity. And I'm not saying you can't endure that level of activity on just a pure carnivore diet because Dr. Sean Baker actually proves that. Otherwise, right?

Alexander: Because he works out like a freaking monster. Now, he does not, he's not working out like Liver King does, so he's not doing it every day, but the intensity is there and it shows. The guy looks like a freaking bodybuilder. He's...

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: He's also not using steroids, exactly! Liver King,

Alexander: Liver King stopped it, but, we all get to make fun of him for a little bit for that.

Alexander: Ha!

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: And they're not disparaging. There's people that take testosterone, and if you take it, that's okay. As long as you're doing it with a doctor who knows what they're doing and you're honest about it. That's the biggest thing, is just being honest with [00:50:00] what you do, and there's Paul Saladino, which is too far one way for me to try and preach exactly how he does it.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: Because it's too strict for most people. Same with Sean Baker. Too strict for most people. I'm more in line with Dr. Ken Barry, who's yeah, make a better choice today than you did yesterday. That's the family medicine approach. Let's make it better today than we did yesterday. Okay, so you failed today.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: We gotta redo tomorrow. Let's make it better tomorrow.

Alexander: And I think another element of the what is better could also be subjective to where you live as well, because, and I don't just mean are you in the cold of Alaska versus, the the jungle of the Amazon. That's not what I mean.

Alexander: What I mean is what western country are you living in? Because the food and the quality of the food that you're going to get, let's say, in Germany, France, and Italy is very different than what you're getting in America, and it's very different than what you're getting in Japan, and it's very different than what you're getting in Venezuela.

Alexander: And you have to take a lot of that into consideration. We're here in America. And so we have to understand what is going on with our [00:51:00] agriculture and you have to understand that corn is not what it used to be, at least not here in America. We genetically modified it so that way it can resist the pesticides that are based on Roundup that we've known about since the eighties.

Alexander: They did the same thing to soybean, right? And so a lot of people are saying, Oh, so it's killing all of our testosterone is killing off our body. It very well could be. It could also be. And it could be the wheat too, because they desiccate the wheat with the pesticides as well. So meaning that they spray the pesticide at the end of the season when they harvest it, not at the beginning.

Alexander: And so when you actually go out and buy a bag of flour in America, you're getting trace elements, of whatever was on the farm, right? If they sprayed any kind of pesticide, regardless of what it was, you may be getting a trace element of that spray, which is a good advocate for, community gardens and, growing your own food.

Alexander: food in your backyard and all that kind of stuff, because you can micromanage and control down to every element how these plants live and how these plants grow. And if [00:52:00] I think that would be a fantastic thing to be more culturally normal for us to be totally responsible for our own food and not outsource it to a massive industry.

Alexander: Not saying there isn't a good place for it but I think if you really want to master your health, I think a lot of that has to go back to those times of when we actually did have to master our food, whether that was we had to go find it and kill it. Now, obviously, there's no such thing as a wild cow, so I can't exactly get a hunting license for cattle.

Alexander: That would be hilarious if I got to do that, but... A really angry farmer with a really big rifle standing right next to it. But aside from, the cattle aside from, the chickens, you can hunt things like turkey, you can hunt things like deer, you can hunt elk and, you can grow.

Alexander: Any kind of food that you want as long as you have a little bit of a backyard, I live in an apartment. I got neighbors that have just, not very big. They have some pots and they grow herbs in it. It's come on, if you live in an apartment, you can at least grow some [00:53:00] herbs.

Dr. Sam Sigoloff: You're getting a little less of those. A little less heavy metals, maybe a little less appeal, that's, getting put on many produce now. Doesn't take a lot of acreage to own chickens, if you're able to do that, if you're outside of city limits. In most cities, consider getting a North American dirt parrot if you live in the city limits.

Alexander: Don't get me wrong. Like I'm not much of the wild animal kind of guy, right? Like I don't want to deal with, cow poo and poo all day long. I don't want to get dirty. I'm very much a, a well groomed human being because I grew up in the city, if push came to shove, I would do it now.

Alexander: Since I don't have to do it, I at least try to find the best alternative, right? Is somebody else doing it right next to me that is doing it at the quality that I would be doing if I had to do this job? And that takes a little more diligence, right? You actually have to pay attention. You have to ask questions.

Alexander: You have to talk to people, get to know them, build a relationship with your butcher. Get to know their name, figure out, how long they've been doing that, why they've been doing that, [00:54:00] what are some of the things that they've seen in the industry, the, they can tell you all the stories about, when this storm hits and this many animals died, ground beef was so cheap

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