How An Ignored SCOTUS Ruling Led To One Of America's Greatest Sins

Claudio Saunt joins the program to discuss the United States government's systematic removal of indigenous people.

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We have other examples of expulsions in history prior to this. But what was unprecedented about this? Was it the scope or the just sort of the mechanism or the planning? and because obviously it's expulsion when somebody starts to pry the siding off of your house. but it's sort of like it's a state Machinery that is doing this at this point. right. So these sorts of state-sponsored deportations or mass de predictions do go back thousands of years. What's unprecedented about this one is just how systematic it is. just how bureaucratic it is. because the United States dreams up this policy that they're going to move every single person. and then it's not that they're runoff it's not that an army marches in and everybody flees. They sent out census takers and Indian agents as they were called to record everybody's name and to describe their property in detail down to the number of Windows in each cabin. so there's this state bureaucracy now from our perspective today it's minuscule. but back in the early 19th century this was something new. that they were going to turn this into a kind of bureaucratic process. and because it was so bureaucratic they State administrators thought that it was just. that somehow this was going to become a model for other nations around the world about how to treat populations justly. Was that the point? I mean I mean because I as you know you're describing the we're going to take census. of and we're going to write their names down. and we're going to put you know how many windows. Was it simply basically to make it seem like it was a more civilized Act? I think like what would they do with that information at that point? like okay now we have it on the sheet and now we're gonna put you on the Trail of Tears. and you may or may not make it. but if you do we'll know that you were here I mean like I don't like what's the value of that? yeah I mean in many cases the value was to not waste money. There the person who oversaw the operation was the commissary general of subsistence. He's really a kind of glorified accountant in the war department as it was then called. and he monitored Federal expenses that went towards feeding in normal times soldiers in the US Army.