How To Sell Socialism To Rural America

Raina Lipsitz joins Sam and Emma in discussing how best to achieve socialist policies in America. One way is to not use the word "socialism", the argument being it has too much of a stigma. If you can convince people that the policies are correct without using the word, does it matter as long as the goal is achieved?

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The folks in your book wanted to focus more on people on the ground. and like the left from the front I guess the ground up. What were some of the disconnects that you might have observed between say politicians Like Bernie Sanders and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and maybe what their focus was? I'm sorry rhetoric sorry from did we lose her okay from a rhetorical perspective versus what maybe some organizers were focused on? So I think I mean the best example of that probably was Jonathan Smucker who's been doing a lot of organizing in Lancaster County in Pennsylvania which is where he's from. And he is somebody who taught me a lot about organizing in that context where it's not I think that people who are doing this work, particularly in certain communities that are more conservative it's very disconnected from the Twitter discourse right? They're not out there chanting slogans. they're not saying things like defund the police. In many ways they're shying away from labeling themselves as socialists even when they are socialists right? so virtually everybody I talk to for the book actually is a socialist or had said at some point to me I am a socialist but I don't necessarily lead with that in my organizing. and that includes even some socialists in New York City who were trying to organize in communities like the Bronx and in certain parts of Brooklyn where they just felt like the word was not serving them and was not something that they could really meaningfully connect to the policies that they were promoting. So I think that you know that's one thing that really gets lost in the reporting on our politics right now is that so much of it is just about things that happen on Twitter and people are not really paying as much attention to what's happening in different communities on the ground. I'm from Buffalo New York I end the book talking about India Walton who won the Democratic primary for mayor in 2021. which was a truly stunning moment for me as somebody who you know was born and raised in Buffalo which is a very different environment than New York City. much more conservative. and then she was crushed by the Democratic establishment in the general election.