Real Climate Science Founder Tony Heller on the Energy Crisis
Tony Heller, climate expert and Real Climate Science founder.
Jerry Ewalt: Welcome to the First Right podcast, a weekly conservative news show brought to you by restoration of America. I'm your host, Jerry Ewalt chief marketing officer for Restoration of America. Today, we are blessed to have a return guest and a popular one climate expert Tony Heller, as the world is in the midst of energy shortages everywhere we have to weigh in on what's really happening. Tony. welcome back to the show.
Tony Heller: Yeah, it's good to be here at Jerry. Thanks.
Jerry Ewalt: Well for those that have missed the last show, the last podcast, would you mind giving us a quick, quick overview of your credentials? I think it's going to help in understanding the topic we're about.
Tony Heller: Yeah, I've got degrees in science and engineering. I've worked as a scientist and engineer for 50 years. I'm still doing engineering for a living. So that was my collars turned up. So I still do engineering for a living. I became, I first got introduced to the whole global warming thing when I was working at Los Alamos labs in 1980, and I was a true believer for decades until I really started looking into it. And about 15 years ago and started seeing a lot of issues. I started realizing that the science wasn't at all, what they were claiming.
So eventually I ended up writing an article for a publication in the United Kingdom, the register about what was wrong with all the predictions about Arctic sea ice melting and kind of went on from there and became my main interest. Actually, I was doing engineering. I was kind of tired of doing engineering after decades and it's, this was a way for me to get back into science and do something useful at the same time. And the more I looked into the whole global warming thing, I came to realize the whole thing was just a scam. There was really no science behind what these people were doing, and it was, it was politics disguised as science.
Jerry Ewalt: So here's how we see it. Tony, multiple degrees in engineering. You're a true scientist. You know how to critically think about things, not just what people are force-feeding you, you, you can work through all that, the data, the facts, do your own analysis to come up with your own conclusions. And you're a true environmentalist. You want to protect the environment?
Tony Heller: Yeah, I've been, I testified in a congressional hearing 50 years ago. It's part of a wilderness area in Utah. I was active with clean air act, the clean water act. So I basically lifelong environmentalist. I was very opposed to the building of Glen Canyon dam ause it flooded Lake Powell because it flooded Glen canyon. So and so, and I, I ride my bike everywhere. I don't really like cars. I hate cars. I'd love to see 90% of them off the road, but the way they get them off the road is not by lying to people about global warming. There's probably much better ways to help the environment than just engaging in this massive fraud, which had been experiencing for decades under Al gore and James Hanson and people have their elk.
Jerry Ewalt: So, so it's, it's a perfect setup, right? For what we're about to discuss. And I know you were on, this is the second time for you to be on the show. The last time you were on the show was about six months ago and so much has changed since then. I kind of look at that first show with you as being a bit of a primer for the energy crisis that we're facing right now. Right? Because right now we, you know, we have Russia invading the Ukraine and all of a sudden gas prices are through the roof. They have this, all this disruption in the Netherlands. We have chaos in Sri Lanka. We have energy rolling blackouts, California, Texas, things like that. Is there a common thread through all this?
Tony Heller: Well, you really have to go back 50 years to understand what's going on in 1974, John Holdren from Berkeley who went on to be Obama's science advisor wrote an article saying we needed to shut down U S energy. He said that the dangers of too much energy too soon was much greater than the dangers of too little energy. And there was never any rational explanation for this. And this was at a time when America was suffering severe energy shortages. People were waiting an hours to get to, to buy gasoline during the energy shortages in the mid 1970s. So this has been in the works for a very long time. And this guy, John Holdren, as I mentioned, is who Obama picked to be his science advisor. And then in 2008 campaign, Obama said there was an interview he did with the San Francisco Chronicle where he said under my plan of cap and trade energy prices will necessarily skyrocket.
And he said, he's wanted to put coal companies out of business. So this is something which has been in the works for 50 years. It's, they've sort of been building up with this whole global warming thing over the past. Like I said, my first exposure to it was in 1980. So this, so they started shortly thereafter and they've been just started pushing the global warming scam harder and harder at the beginning. It appeared to be a scientific debate, but never really was, it was always just politicians driving it. And they've been pushing harder and harder. And at this point it's all just completely fake. It's being driven by heck. It's being driven by the media. It's being driven by politicians. And there's really almost no involvement of scientists at all in, in it anymore. It's it's Alexandria Cortez, it's Joe Biden, it's McCrone and France who said today that they're going to start shutting down on their usage of traffic, of straight lights at night because they don't have enough energy. You know, we're, we're seeing this all over Europe. We're seeing it in some states in the United States that this is, this is a plan which has been in the works for decades. And of course, they're trying to blame it on Putin. They're trying to blame it on some climate crisis, but that really has nothing to do with that. It's, you know, us policy towards Putin is probably largely driven towards this has been a way to create an energy crests.
Jerry Ewalt: Th I think that that's really important what you just said, because it, we, we like the hide behind gluten is the reason for all this I know in France, they were saying they're making all these drastic changes to get energy because they feel that any moment they're going to be completely cut off from Russia and gas, we see our prices skyrocketing in terms of gas as well. And you're, you're, you're saying that that's all been in the works for at least 50 years, maybe longer, not as a result of the last six months of what's going on in Russia and Ukraine.
Tony Heller: Yeah. I just posted a video on my YouTube channel from 1997. It was Joe Biden saying the one way you can be sure to create hostilities with Russia is to bring countries from Eastern Europe into NATO. So he's known, he's known for 25 years that he could create hostilities with Russia by doing exactly what he's been doing. So it's going on there as an accidental. He was intentional that they, they, they, they knew they could create hostilities. They knew they could create this energy shortage, which is what they've wanted to do. And they've walked, you know, Obama said in 2008, he wanted to make electricity prices skyrocket. And that's exactly what they're doing.
Jerry Ewalt: No, and you've been, you've been vocal for some time now about it talked about the first exposure in the eighties. You've been vocal about global warming and climate change, the scam that were seemed to be taking on right now and you know, up until now, it's, it seemed very esoteric for most people. But now this ideology that we're discussing is leading to very destructive, destructive policies. And, you know, people are starting to finally take notice. Do you sometimes wish that people would have been listening to you years ago?
Tony Heller: Yeah, well, you know, it was obvious to me there, there was no, no, I was just thinking about why are they doing this? Why are they telling this big lie? And whenever governments tell a big lie there, they have some very nefarious intent. And the only thing that ever made sense about it was, you know, they're demonizing fossil fuels, which our civilization depends on to survive. And billions of people around the world depend on and survive. It's the only things that made any sense, or why are they doing this is one is to shut down the supply of energy. And the other, which is something they've also been quite open about is to reduce world population, you know, without adequate energy during the winter, during the cold snap in the winter, you can kill a lot of people really quickly. And, and food prices are very dependent on energy prices. So we're seeing, we're seeing food prices skyrocket. So, so between very high, very expensive energy and very expensive food, what faster way to get rid of poor people than exactly the actions they've taken.
Jerry Ewalt: So this is just further evidence in controlling people's lives, controlling population, things like that. It's just another cog in the wheel, if you will, of what they're trying to accomplish.
Tony Heller: Yeah. It has nothing to do with science. It has nothing to do with climate. It doesn't have anything to do with bad weather. It's about controlling the energy supply can train controlling the food supply.
Jerry Ewalt: So I like how you just did that. So you connected energy to food. Cause I don't think people always do that. So what we're seeing is these what we'll say green leftists, right? Who are talking about climate change and green energies and all these things, but it's not just energy. They're now coming after our fertilizers, our beef and even our land, right. Are, is this, is this a true threat? Are we sleeping through this? Or is this imagined,
Tony Heller: Oh, I think it's a very real threat. I mean, they've, they've been one of the, you know, something that I became aware of about 10 years ago was how they were demonizing methane, you know, which is cows burp out methane. And it didn't make any sense. Scientifically methane is irrelevant as a greenhouse gas, but they made up all these lies about methane is 30 times more potent greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide is we have to cut back methane and they were tying this into cattle. So it was obvious. They were trying to get rid of the destroy, the beef industry with us using this fake science. And, you know, methane makes up less than two parts per million in the atmosphere. It's completely irrelevant as a greenhouse gas climate modelers frequently. Even it, it it's such a small part, but they've been telling this big lie about methane is 30 times more potent as a greenhouse gas.
And it's going to multiple polarized gaps and destroy the planet. And the reason was to target the beef industry. Now they're doing the same thing with nitrous oxides, which is even less important than methane and nitrogen is the excuse they're using to shut down all these farmers in the Netherlands right now. So we have a fallout war on beef going on right now. Bill gates has heavily invested in the fake beef industry. He's the number one home owner, a farmland in the United States. So he stands to gain a lot of money by shutting down the beef industry. So he's been supporting all of this anti beef propaganda from NPR and, and these other fake news agencies.
Jerry Ewalt: So they start off with methane collecting devices. I feel bad for these, these cattle. And now, now we're shifting towards just eliminate them altogether and let's just have fake beef, right? Artificial.
Tony Heller: Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's, it's totally ridiculous. There were in the 16th century, which was the coldest century of the last 10,000 years, there were a hundred million bison roaming. The great Plains where I live there there's was just as many bovines in the 16th century as there are now, but it was extremely cold. And so this whole thing of trying to say that we have a hundred million cows in the United States now, and they're causing global warming as absurd. You know, the historical record doesn't provide any evidence for their claims, but it doesn't matter because nothing in nothing in this whole scam is about science.
Jerry Ewalt: It's absolutely true. And I, I need to go then to this next topic, cause this is, this is probably the hottest topic that I get asked this question all the time, right? Electric vehicles, they're clearly going to save the environment. If we just stop using fossil fuels and buying those cars with those traditional engines and move to completely electric vehicles. It's amazing. There's no a car. There's no emissions coming from these cars. It's completely clean. The environment will be saved. How the audience, where the, the electricity comes from, where, where it's, how it's powered. And then where does the actual battery itself, the raw materials, where do those come from? Are they really environmentally friendly?
Tony Heller: Well, the funny thing is, you know, California's has made this mandate that they're not going to sell any new gasoline powered vehicles after such and such time. So they, they have to get there. So everything will have to be electric vehicles. They're telling people that if you can't afford $6 gas, you should buy a $50,000 electric car, which will never pay for itself. But the big problem California is running short of electricity as it is. They're shutting down the Diablo canyon, nuclear power plant. So they don't have enough electricity for their current needs. And they're trying to hugely expand their electricity demands with all these electric cars. And there there's all kinds of problems with this one thing, there just won't be enough electricity. Another thing is if you take the millions of cars, which are currently driving on California highways and try to make them electric suddenly have a huge problem. You can refill a gasoline powered vehicle in five minutes, but an electric vehicle, even with a fast charger takes 40 minutes. So now you need eight times as many pumps, you need a huge infrastructure. You need to be able to deliver huge amounts of electricity to these stations. I saw a video recently of people waiting for hours to recharge their Tesla in California. Now suddenly you increase the number of electric vehicles by a factor of 50. Now people are waiting for days to recharge their electric vehicle. So what happens is essentially traveled long distance travel becomes impossible. What they're doing is they're, they're, they're creating a permanent lockdown where very few people will be able to travel. I mean, he had a huge amount of electricity. This means putting gigantic transmission lines all along scenic roads right now, you know, you can, you can transport gasoline and diesel in a tanker to a remote gas station, but you can't do that with electricity.
Now you have to have massive power lines along all of the scenic roads in the west. So it's an environmental disaster. And the batteries themselves are an environmental disaster. A lot of materials that are being used are in very short supply. The mining of them as is environmentally destructive. A lot of it has been mined by people who are essentially child slaves in Africa. So they're, they're using child slaves to create an environmental disaster. There, there isn't enough raw materials to do what they say they want to do, and they don't have enough electricity to begin with. So what's going on in California behind the scenes is, is they shut down their own electrical spy. The California government is making deals with Wyoming, the state of Wyoming to purchase coal-fired electricity in the future. So what they're going to be doing, is it going to be recharging these in the public? Isn't aware of this, but so the, the they're going to be recharging these electrical vehicles in California with coal fired electricity. So what they're actually doing is creating more pollution because the coal, the transmission of the, of the electricity from Wyoming, they lose a lot of electricity. So they're actually generating more pollution than they would've been had. They just left everything alone, back in California. The whole thing is it's, it's a huge mess. Now, nothing they're doing makes any sense, environmentally engineering wise, or from an economic point of view.
Jerry Ewalt: So Tony, you, you said a lot in that and I want to repeat some of this because it's, it it's so valuable that learning, right? So one thing, the more electric cars we put out there, the more it's going to cause a disruption to the energy grid, right? Because it can't handle all this charging. What used to be done by gas is now done by charging. That's one thing too, you talked about cars, not being able to go very far. You have without another charge, right? So there's a, there's a control aspect, which we talked about earlier, right. Of how the government is trying to control. What, where people go, what people do, what they put in their bodies, what they eat, all of these things. So there's another control aspect to this. Then you're telling me that there's not enough raw materials to make the battery. And when they do make the battery, it's coming from different foreign countries, sun that might not be very friendly to us and used child labor and slave labor and all these types of things. There's still not enough of that. Right. And then, and now there's people waiting in line to get the charge that they need and they can't do it. And then we're buying electricity from what maybe other states, if you're in California or wherever you are, where they're using coal electricity, and then transport that electricity across state lines for miles upon miles, where you have energy loss along the transmission lines. And therefore we're creating even more pollution than when we started with just gas cars,
Tony Heller: Right? Yeah. Yeah. And, and it's worse than that. Then you've got this huge waste disposal problem of the batteries, which are made from toxic chemicals. They use lithium, which is explosive. There's a lot of problems with that. Yeah. It's, it's a massive mass. Nothing makes any sense. You know, they want people recharging their car batteries with solar power, but they're telling them to recharge them at night when there's no sunshine in. So there's no solar power or failable. The whole thing is, is, is a complete disaster from one end to the other. And it's based on junk science. It's, there's, there's no legitimate science behind what they're doing. If they just left everything alone, we would have been fine. There was, we've got huge amounts of fossil fuels. And the only reason we have energy issues is because of interference by government. If government got out of the way, there wouldn't be any energy shortage, the energy would be cheap. It would be abundance and available. So this is a completely government created crisis,
Jerry Ewalt: Like progress to me. No, I'm kidding. I like what you just did to me too. Right. I said, you know, as I kind of outlined everything that you just said, you go, but there's more,
Tony Heller: So
Jerry Ewalt: The question is, is this good at all? Like when you're, here's the way I look at it, right. I, I don't think anyone's against renewable energy energy. That's going to produce less pollution in the air. I mean, nobody's against that. Everyone is, would be for that. The real challenge that we're seeing is that the technology and infrastructure is not there yet. It needs to advance progress over time, but we're just not there yet. So we can't be pushing this on people.
Tony Heller: Well, I would just, I guess I'm going to have to disagree with what you said a little bit. There, both solar and wind are very environmentally destructive. They take up huge amounts of space, the wind power, you know, the ones one wind farm in California has killed about 10% of the golden Eagle population in the United States. They're, they're, they're terribly destructive to Raptors. They take up huge amounts of space. They, they involve toxic chemicals. There there's all kinds of problems with them. And frankly, fossil fuels are less environmentally destructive than wind and solar are. The hydroelectric is incredibly distractive form of energy. I, you know, as I mentioned at the beginning of the show, Glen canyon dam was the most beautiful Glen canyon was the most beautiful canyon on the Colorado river. And they flooded it to build lake pal. The are, they destroyed hundreds of miles of the Colorado river ecosystem when they built it and downstream from Glen canyon, the grand canyon before, before 1963, the grand canyon, the water in the grand canyon was warm, muddy water. They had totally different ecosystem. Now it's called Clearwater. So they changed the ecosystem, the grand canyon, they changed the type of fish what's lived there. So basically they destroyed the entire Colorado river in Arizona from one end to the other by building lake, pal and Glen canyon dam. So yeah, it's everything, everything they're doing is wrong.
Jerry Ewalt: Okay. I mean, I think we could probably be here for another hour and you'd find more and more that that's wrong. So I guess your solution is ride your bike and stick with fossil fuels when you can't get there by bike.
Tony Heller: Yeah. Fossil fuels for the, from the environmental point of view, fossil fuels are much cleaner. We did have in the 1960s, we had terrible problems with pollution from fossil fuels. Cities here, pollution in cities was horrible. Coal fired power plants. We're putting out huge amounts of smoke. And they w we had a lot of environmental problems, but we clean those up 50 years ago. They put electrostatic precipitators on, on coal-fired power plants, which reduced the emissions by 99%. We'd put all these emission controls in automobiles. So now fossil fuels are very clean and they have a much smaller footprint on the ground, but, but we're replacing them with much more environmentally destructive forms of energy, which they, they try to sell as green energy. So the whole thing's a fraud.
Jerry Ewalt: I didn't even think of it in that, that perspective, but that's, that's a, that's very good information. So my last question for you, Tony, this is, this is important for us in the political realm here. So are Republicans making a mistake by trying to finesse this climate change issue right there? They're trying to get around it or get by without really taking on the fundamental issues that the earth has rapidly. If the earth is rapidly warming, why are they afraid to argue the point and kind of hit this one head on?
Tony Heller: Yeah, that's, that's a really good question. You know, Winston Churchill said an appeaser is someone feeds the crocodile, hoping it will eat him last, which is exactly what the Republicans are doing. They're not solving any problems. You know, Alexandria Cortez made a very good point. She said, the world's going to end in 10 years. And Republicans are saying that it's too expensive to fix it. And that's exactly right. If, if you allow people to believe that there actually is this existential crisis, the argument that it's too expensive to fix it, it's meaningless. You know, you, you have to get to the root of the problem you have to, the Republicans needed to along time ago, just say this whole story is fake. It's junk science. There is no climate crisis and, and attack it from that point of view. But the, the approach they've taken is it's too expensive, which makes no sense. If people think they're going to die, then the cost of fixing it is meaningless. So I've been trying to get this message across to Republicans in Congress. And I've met with many of them. If you've got to drop this, you've got to stop doing this, you know, Alexandria light routine. You've you've, you've got to directly confront the issue and say, this is junk science. It's fake. We've got to stop this agenda cold, but they're afraid of it because this perception has been created that 99% of scientists believe this in anyone who goes up against it as a knuckle dragging Neanderthal science denier. And that's where they're stuck at. They don't want to be can con Republican congressmen don't want to get called out on CNN as Neanderthal science deniers, right? Because then they look bad and then they lose. They're afraid they'll lose votes.
Jerry Ewalt: No, I'm hoping we get to that day where that becomes a badge of honor to go on and see going to be called that Neanderthal knuckle dragger. But we're not quite there yet, but I, I think we're, we're moving in that direction. Would you say,
Tony Heller: Well, hopefully, I mean, the people who've tried to go there, like Ted Cruz a few years ago, he did a Senate hearing and he featured one of my graphs, but unfortunately didn't talk to me before I did that. And he didn't really understand the graph. And then he was unable to follow up. He got his first point. Right. But from then on, he wasn't able, he wasn't able to proceed further in the hearing with, with coherent arguments because he didn't really understand it. So what they need to do is they need these politicians. They need to sit down with me for a few hours so I can teach them not only the first question, but the second and third and how to keep responding. And so I think it's a lack of education. And I think there's a lot of these Republican congressmen have, have good intentions, but they don't have enough knowledge. And they don't, they don't know how to play a complete chess game. They can make the first move, but then they don't know how to respond to these very well organized people on the democratic side who know how to follow up and make them look bad.
Jerry Ewalt: Well, well, Tony, I think it could be a little intimidating and, and you're right. I mean, th the amount of science that goes into this, there's, there's a lot there. And you said a lot of it's been misled and confused. Right. And it's easy to be, you know, for, for someone to come against you and say, you're that Neanderthal. So I, I do agree. I think they need to spend some more time with you. Cause I know our, our audience just learned a lot on the second go round. So we'll have to have you back again for third one, cause there's a lot here, but I do want to thank you for your time and thank you for all that you're doing and, and just, just keep driving forward. We need you.
Tony Heller: Okay. Thanks Jerry. I enjoy talking to you.
Jerry Ewalt: All right. That's our show for today. Thank you so much for tuning in and supporting conservative media. Don't ever forget that by working together and staying diligent, we conservatives can bring our country back to true greatness until next week. Let's all keep praying that God will continue to bless America
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