Carr-Family-ADA-Leifer Interview Transcript

Carr-Family-ADA-Leifer Interview Transcript

___TRANSCRIPT___

0:00
all right it's october 29 1979
0:06
2 20 in the afternoon we're at 316 warburton avenue
0:11
yonkers new york president this time is myself assist district attorney herbert leifer
0:16
george detective investigator george byrd shield number 901 from his da's office wheat car
0:24
want to identify yourself yeah louis eckert bcker and you are counsel for the car
0:34
samuel carr [Music] we are present here with regard to
0:41
investigation involving
0:48
david berkowitz john carr
0:53
the purpose is to elicit information with regard to
0:59
the above named individuals we have previously spoken to wheat carr
1:07
and there were some additional questions that we had with regard to the incident which occurred in north
1:13
dakota now we when we had spoken to you on friday you had said to us that uh you
1:20
had not spoken to anyone in north dakota since approximately october 5th
1:26
of this year is that correct no i said it was october 12th
1:34
now we had representatives in minot north dakota as
1:40
recently as uh this past saturday who interviewed linda o'connor
1:46
linda o'connor indicated to our investigators that they had had an hour and a half phone conversation with you
1:53
uh as recently as uh wednesday of last week
2:00
i have been trying to locate them have you spoken to anyone in minot north
2:06
dakota between uh last week at all i spoke to craig about ex-husband i guess he is trying to
2:12
locate them i don't really was that last week it may have been
2:19
and did you have any conversations with craig or any representative of the minor
2:24
newspaper with regard to our investigators in north dakota newspapers definitely not
2:31
and with craig the only thing i i did ask craig i said do you believe this stuff and he said no
2:37
would was that possibly last week do you know what i called no
2:44
because i had been trying to get hold of her we had a number that was incorrect and then i had some difficulty trying to
2:49
get it because the name i remembered was connor not ocon so exactly when i spoke to craig i
2:54
honestly don't remember did you speak to terry gardner at all last week oh no i did not
3:07
now your brother michael was killed in the automobile accident
3:12
now was michael a a member of the church of scientology yes
3:20
and could you just give us a little how long he was with the church or mrs carr or mr
3:26
carr for four to five years i see and
3:33
uh we also understand at one time he worked in phoenix house in new york
3:39
michael worked in phoenix house if he did i've never heard about him
3:44
no connection with all of this house no michael's only jobs that i know in new york city were connected with
3:50
professional photography commercial photography the closest
3:56
the closest name to phoenix house is he worked with tommy petra and that was at the time that he first
4:01
started that happens yeah tony petrocelli is a commercial photographer
4:09
and that was at the time that he did do you know whether he ever worked
4:18
through the church of scientology uh at the phoenix house which is a drug rehabilitation center normally the
4:24
scientologists do not work outside of their own building i see so i understand that now
4:32
do you know the location of the uh scientology church that he was affiliated with
4:37
submission on 6th avenue at 10th street
4:43
you would also mention that um you recall john mentioning for you the
4:48
name of a friend of his who lived on long island somebody go to school with steve something or other do you have any
4:55
records i didn't say i said the only steve that i knew of
5:00
was a steve that he went to high school with who i had no idea what happened to him i
5:06
believe that he was killed in the service but
5:14
[Music] you remember his name yeah his name is larry
5:20
larry balom
5:25
i said that he was the only other person i could think of that john had visited during the times that he was here in the
5:32
last three four years you have any idea where on long island
5:37
or spelling his name
5:52
i have 34 chuck boulevard north babylon and it's b-i-l-e-l-l-o and his first name is
5:59
lawrence and very very close friendly giants mr clark there was a
6:06
blue mercury montego that john came down from north dakota in right that i understand was parked here for a long
6:12
time it was very recently sold that's right do you recall what kind of license plates were on that car north
6:18
dakota you know whatever happened to them i haven't you have them could we have the license plate number
6:38
hello yeah thank you
6:43
daddy is picking you up from school you're waiting for your sister all right
6:48
i'm gonna be tied up dad remind daddy kim has to see melted
6:54
no i just i'm not gonna be able to pick her up and i don't want her panicking
7:00
yes i want you to go to her class hustle her out of there get her outside get in the car with daddy and go to dr milton
7:06
it's 3 52. no across the hall mr ettinger
7:12
right right a locker is the same locker she had before bye
7:20
when john came back from north dakota in january of 78 we were advised that he had a
7:27
gun with him a 44 caliber cult pistol was that ever found in the
7:33
automobile or any papers regarding that in the automobile no
7:39
i know where and if he had done
7:45
the only gun i know about him having was a pistol 22 air pistol i believe
7:51
that could be wrong but it was 22 and he had that in north dakota and his
7:57
van was burglarized somewhere along the lines somewhere out there his apartment was
8:04
something the van is before this he's talking about when he came back yeah i know but i'm saying this is the only gun
8:09
i have any knowledge [Music] now the automobile you have the plates
8:14
there 462 653
8:20
expiration date 331.78 tag number 56
8:27
57 81. do you want to say the plate number again
8:34
the plate number again please 462 653
8:40
that's not the card right
8:47
was that car registered to john do you know yes was registered
8:54
did you have a copy of the registration did you have when you sold the car yes it was a john c carr
9:01
that's right you did yeah because i got a
9:08
i have a are you asking whether he had the registration the original registration does the police have his
9:14
wallet they have never returned no i had a there was a registration in the car
9:20
okay do you recall what address was on the
9:25
registration it was
9:31
a house in town i don't know i don't recall there was a title on that cartoon
9:39
and i had to send to north dakota and i got a copy of the title and i had it changed over from his name
9:45
i sent the cop death certificate and they sent me a copy the title changing it over where i could sell that
9:52
car and who'd you sell the car to
9:57
[Music] college family down here
10:05
i don't recall the name [Music]
10:11
but copy the title i had i went out with them because they
10:19
to the motor vehicle bureau and i showed them all the papers i had
10:26
with the authorization from the state of north dakota and they accepted that when i sold the
10:33
car now before you sold the car did you go through it completely see whether there was anything in any of john's personal
10:40
effects any papers that he had no papers except for them
10:46
copying you the sheet registration from north dakota
10:54
do you have any pictures of of john we had seen someone we did showed us
10:59
some pictures of john but they were very small snapshots do you have any pictures of john standing up
11:05
no i don't think so
11:11
not standing not full not for one both full face pictures
11:18
in high school i don't believe other than snap shots and this high school picture i think is the only one i don't
11:24
know where it is wait you'd mention that you had some
11:30
samples of john's writing a letter that you've written to you do you have that
11:36
boot camp [Music]
11:48
[Music]
11:59
[Music] what was the name of the uh doctor who treated harvey
12:06
your daughter the chief at the new york animal hospital
12:11
medical center i don't recall his name we might recall his name
12:17
you know where you don't have to have the address of the year uh 60 seconds straight 64 knees
12:33
and the bullet is still in harvey that is correct
12:40
very close to the heart testing freezing we will not have it removed because of
12:46
these it could kill it was still there sooner or later well
12:52
[Music] it is still there
12:58
when john used to come back on leaves from north dakota or from any other military leaves he was in the service
13:04
about 11 years did he have any close friends in town yeah here in yorkers
13:11
the young man he grew up my school where he went to school here in chicago
13:16
you know i know but were there any close friends that he visited with when he came home on leave right
13:23
[Music] somehow the only friend of me uh is larry that
13:30
you mentioned and richard richard folk is he does he still live in town he lives in this area he lives in
13:37
westchester was that f-o-l-k no chc
13:45
and richard yes and they went to school from the time they were in kindergarten
13:52
and uh any recent address no i don't i don't think there's
13:58
somewhere here in west chester yes
14:05
he finds us more often than we find him right mr carr had you ever seen david burke
14:11
what's around the neighborhood new how about you mrs carr
14:17
and wheat the only time you saw him was when he was with freddie in the car that day one day
14:27
since this incident have you ever had an uh occasion to speak to freddie about berkeley's no
14:32
i haven't seen him since june 77. when did that incident happen with that
14:39
you believe freddie was involved with your two dogs at the construction place that was in um
14:46
early in the year it was before harvey was shot so it was early in the year
14:53
and what year was that 77 early 77.
14:58
and that was never that instant was never reported to the police or anybody no well i started to make a report and
15:04
they said well too many people had access because there were five keys so well forget it it's just the door same
15:11
thing they said when harvey was shot it's really just a door and who was the uh
15:17
gentleman that you were in the construction business with at that time his name is jim falcon jim faulkner is
15:23
he still around him he's not here he's uh now remarried in lives in new rochelle i don't know
15:30
where because he's married to a very jealous girl okay he is
15:36
very honestly former new york city cop was suspended finally thrown off the job
15:41
because of an incident that occurred off duty five years before i knew him
15:46
so i'm gonna check him that's going to come out i'd rather tell you than have somebody else
15:55
now we we were told that at one time while you were working for the pda in yonkers you had made a request for about
16:02
a thousand rounds of reloads what for ammunition for 44 caliber
16:10
38 caliber 357 magnum and 22 caliber 44 caliber yeah
16:18
that's somebody's imagination working all the time i do own a 357 magnet
16:24
i do own a 25 automatic and
16:29
uh we have several other handguns which i do go regularly and shoot and the reason
16:36
i would i may have asked somebody about the price of reloads that's very possible they're the cheapest thing to
16:41
shoot at a target with but never 44 and they have no use for them
16:48
now if you say you do have a number of guys are yours or your husband's or uh they are
16:54
mine they are yes they're mine they're registered to me and or my father some of the ones on
17:00
my permit are registered are his it's not mine but they're on both permits
17:06
do you have your permit with you or available not really i don't even know where it is
17:11
it's been so long since i carried them carried a gun or carried to commit
17:16
i don't know where it is working right now was it a regular carry permit it was a
17:22
limited carrying current employment only restriction and it has to do with the fact that i do
17:29
transport large sums of money in connection with this business so the current appointment had to show
17:34
that the answer is that the permit prior to being involved being employed by the police officer and
17:40
it was issued in the name of wheat carr wheat michael
17:45
and mr carter you also have a permit can you have it with you also
17:51
could we have a number on it please
18:08
so
18:20
how long have you been last was like 21 21 when i got it
18:27
i think i was only just 21 22. i'm not even sure the original date
18:32
but i was not you know that's about how old i was in my early twenties [Music]
18:38
number 24 yeah some of them are mine though somehow
18:45
do you shoot regularly at range i had them in quite a long time where did you shoot when you
18:51
uh the police pistol range in illinois
18:56
[Music]
19:08
how long were you uh license to carry a weapon it should say [Music]
19:14
no that's the that's the replacement the original permit
19:21
so i asked your question before we go on sure uh i'm getting a feeling from the tone of these questions though
19:27
they're making me uncomfortable yeah uh are these people the targets of any
19:33
investigation or they suspect no the only reason the question about
19:39
the guns came to light was that we herself had mentioned to us on friday that she did have a number of guns and
19:45
she didn't mention 357 i did not mention that to you
19:50
i did not mention anything about what guns i owned i'm sure that if you got that you've got
19:57
that from the office police department which is where the information on our comments is
20:02
okay i'm sure i didn't mention what i've got i don't i don't recall that all right well all right
20:08
can i ask where this conversation will be going from this point on well as we get told we on friday uh a
20:15
lot of muddy waters have been raised as a result of things that have been published in the newspaper and
20:21
our office did not have an investigation going prior to the recent articles in a newspaper but as a result of them
20:28
we have started checking up on a number of the facts which were raised
20:34
as a result of the newspaper articles and detective burt and myself have been
20:40
out here we have spoken to wheat on a prior occasion with regard to just generally john carr you don't know
20:46
friday night friday right now and uh again as i said uh during our
20:52
conversation there had been a 357 mentioned there had been a 22 mentioned that had been a nine millimeter
20:58
mentioned and at that time i had not asked wheat whether or not she was licensed and i
21:03
just asked her now can i ask the question um
21:10
is there any any reason to believe
21:18
that all of this story has any truth in it at all i mean is
21:24
there really some investigation that's going on is there really some police department
21:31
that has brought this to light or is this just the fancy of the reporter that wants to sell his newspapers
21:38
as far as uh before you started you said you did not start until the newspaper story arrived
21:45
do you have any proof that anything he's saying is true or is it all fiction then part of his
21:52
imagination uh as far as what they print in newspaper i
21:58
really can't tell you i have no idea whether he is certainly imagining it or not he's implying that new york city had
22:04
opened an investigation in conjunction with north dakota police is that true i am not aware of any
22:11
investigation of the new york city police department and why is it that nobody from the new york city police
22:17
department has made any kind of uh big splashes on the newspapers that
22:23
there is no investigation and that we have been so badly damaged by it
22:29
if there isn't any investigation presently in progress by the new york city police department i can't see the
22:35
reason why they would come forward in any way and deny it because they there isn't anything
22:40
pending as far as i know my original permit was
22:47
33 891 on the 21st of december 1968.
22:57
get out of the date again please 21st of december
23:03
1968. the original number was thirty three
23:08
eight nine one because the the permit you showed me now
23:13
shows original permit number three five three four nine that was due to the fact that it was uh
23:22
uh i just wanted i just want to read this onto them the the weapons listed on the rear of the permit
23:28
uh attached on a typewritten piece of paper cult 22 caliber
23:37
[Music]
23:46
25 caliber number od 25941
23:53
we have a bower 24 25 25
23:58
uh number zero one one five nine five we have a
24:04
smith and wesson 32 82530
24:10
we have a cult 38 906
24:17
6 colt 38 f31292
24:24
snw 0.357 serial number 2k2
24:34
uh snw 357 serial number
24:39
n11668
24:45
[Music]
24:50
you have these guns around the house yes now we are any of those guns that we
24:55
mentioned you had said something about some of them for yours you know which one's yours and which ones you have and which one your dad doesn't have
25:06
i'm just trying to think which ones you wear okay the bauer 25 is mine
25:12
the smith and wesson with the k serial number 357 is mine
25:18
and one of the cults there's a cult 38
25:24
i'm not sure which serial number but one of them is mine and you have those weapons that you mentioned in your home
25:31
they're here to say do you have any guns in your house aside from the ones your husband may have
25:38
they're one of the only guns in the house right now that i can think of both hands i could be wrong it may be one of mine up there for whatever reason
25:46
but very honestly i think they're all here and the only other ones would be his and they'd be in the house and you know which guns those are or any type
25:52
guns that your husband they have in the house can i guess why this is important yeah only in that
25:58
they were mentioned to us the other day okay why would it be important john mentioned why would they not you know then why
26:04
would they be just trying to clear it up [Music]
26:10
what is confusing about them it's just that there are a lot of guns involved
26:16
and we're just trying to track down and know where each one is and who hasn't that was it okay well i really don't even know what
26:23
he has i'm sure he has a service revolver i believe he has two other ones
26:30
uh they're rarely in the house unless he's there and i think one of them may be in his
26:35
locker you know i'm sure his service i've never seen a service involved at home except once i was to clean it
26:42
i did not want to fix that was uh
26:47
john licensed you know in new york not in new york now how about michael yeah michael wanted
26:54
nothing to do with guns
27:02
now you had brought down a card with the handwriting sample uh that's a personal letter i don't think it's important
27:12
did you obtain copies of his handwriting no we've been unable to obtain any copies of your brother's handwriting
27:18
all right i don't mind punishing you with a copy for his handwriting but i i will pick it out for something that i
27:24
have i would appreciate any sample that you might give us something that you would feel would not be personal except
27:30
that you would not want to leave the house
27:35
and again if you have a picture of a full face picture uh again something that would not
27:41
uh something that you wouldn't not mind parting with temporarily we could make a try to make a one-on-one
27:47
picture with it we have a polaroid with us today i don't know if we could come out with or not why
27:53
um i'm the kind of person who does not like to remain minded and this sort of thing and i put all these coaches away until
27:59
such time that i feel that i can take them out so it's not convenient for me to give you one right now
28:07
now which you would mention that uh there were some there was a box of your brother's
28:13
papers that your father had they're all bills that sort of thing bank statement bills
28:20
you're not any personal papers and my brother didn't write letters he's just that kind of person if we have any
28:27
letters it's maybe six of them and the whole time he's in the service if we still haven't we're also not for
28:32
people like save letters so you notice we're in telephone business
28:37
yes we have to talk to each other we talk on the telephone we have very high telephone bills but very few letters
28:43
around so uh most of our uh john didn't like very letters and he said that he had cobwebs
28:49
in his mailbox because i never wrote to him so we did most of our conversations here on
28:56
the phone [Music] tell me something i asked you
29:01
you said you try to check into it i don't know if you've had time about some letters that we had received from burglars that were having difficulty
29:08
having returned to us supposedly because of a da's whole whether it be from
29:14
brooklyn bronx queens manhattan i don't even know are you able to find out anymore i have not uh since i saw you on friday i've
29:21
been able to come up with any information with you whose home it is
29:27
and uh we're trying to we are checking through the other police department in an attempt to find out who's holding up the letters and why they're being held
29:34
i don't know where they are at the present time it really doesn't have anything to do with this conversation no well it's just
29:40
a request well i just assume we you know do this and nothing else uh in the
29:45
personal property that came from minot john's you never received any of his personal property from minority police
29:51
had not given us a coroner's report nor have they given us back his wallet which apparently was the only thing was on his
29:58
body well how about any of the other personal things he may personally affect you
30:03
john uh he did it was only gone from here what 24 48 hours three days
30:12
okay and he only took his clothes with him he was you know so uh the only papers that we have are
30:20
those that substantiate his air force um
30:25
the things that his air force papers he had and he went to school in the meantime
30:32
he didn't work or you know i mean he went to college all the rest of the time since he got out
30:37
so there was there was nothing of any importance in what we had except
30:43
those things we needed to get for his daughter social security and
30:49
and hopefully va benefits you know personal effects on my clothing
30:54
or anything of that nature for example he had a uh card mentioned a buddha necklace
31:02
is that
31:09
no there was a buddha necklace we had discussed it was in a picture that he had with he and his door what was that
31:16
what it is it was did it have three parts to it uh it was very it was a very small
31:22
picture and right there speaking about it and it's a thing that he brought back which he told me was a
31:30
like a good love charm it has three different uh figures on it it is the thing that he
31:36
gave me and i don't think that he took that back to north dakota well this was only one
31:43
uh well they were not
31:48
[Music]
31:59
was there were trees and i couldn't tell exactly and he may have had the necklace on at
32:05
that time but i haven't seen it i don't know if you even are familiar with it yeah i see
32:10
something that is normally kept in a house and hung above the bed or something like that but it is a
32:16
religious artifact that he brought back from his one of his space in the air force when he was sent overseas well this is
32:23
what i'm referring to is a necklace that which was a buddha which was found hanging in the closet of the o'connor
32:29
apartment after john died i was wondering whether it ever got here no
32:35
no they only had the one that i know okay then we're not talking about the same this was a good luck piece that he
32:41
always wore except when he was upset and he would take it off i don't know what you're talking about
32:48
i was wondering whether that might have come no i thought you were talking about it no nothing like that
32:54
in other words nothing of his personal effects ever got to you from north dakota no his bag
33:00
his wallet is being held out there
33:11
georgia uh getting back to uh the mercury uh were there any artifacts or anything
33:17
in the glove compartment of that car uh papers receipts anything like that you
33:23
know there were builds in the registration
33:30
you don't recall a receipt for a 44 cult
33:37
my analogy didn't know what
33:42
since we've been told by linda o'connor that there was a receipt in the glove compartment which he always kept locked
33:49
and she had gone in there to get some something for him out of the apartment she'd seen a yellow receipt
33:56
made out of the name of john c carr for a 44 caliber colt
34:03
my knowledge he never owned one
34:08
was he into shooting wheat like as you were or uh yeah he did uh
34:14
what since since we were 12 we've been going up to the range since we were kids john spent a lot of time with the
34:20
westchester police rifle range 22 rifle first
34:28
he did some hunting down in texas [Music] now at one time in front of this
34:34
building there was a sign uh cars illustrated graphics or graphic illustrations michael is a
34:40
was that michael's graduate from the rochester institute of technology and professional photography and that was
34:47
that his business that he ran out of this house
34:54
[Music] it was in one of the police reports that had been assigned in front of the house at one time yeah there was a sign in
35:00
front of the house and said private property cars will be told weight owner's expenses we have never for the answering service
35:06
or for my studio all the signs exist are the ones that
35:11
are over they just ask you did we have the sign out okay
35:18
[Music] now as we had discussed
35:24
with regard to michael you had said that you'd spoken about one o'clock in the morning that he died about ten o'clock till
35:30
somewhere we have to twelve and before one did he give you any indication where he was going at that time down the city
35:36
to party and relax he'd work since seven o'clock in the morning he has a little rest
35:42
a little fun but he never mentioned where he was going or where he was heading for
35:48
anything of that nature you know
35:53
about when michael became uh involved with the church of scientology
35:59
i would say roughly four or five years ago and did he go down to new york to the church of scientology on a regular basis
36:12
well did he go there every wednesday thursday tuesday was a regular schedule where he would go to the uh surgeon
36:18
every week he took a lot of courses he spent a lot of time
36:25
well i know we worked here full-time is that right it's not like yes
36:31
well he's been out of college for a long time since 1973.
36:38
when did he first become involved with the church was that while he was in college or after he graduated
36:45
afterwards and when he got out of college when he was back home again in yonkers did he
36:51
work he worked here is that correct
36:57
no sir he has only worked with me since
37:02
january of 1978 james whenever we incorporated in
37:08
about a year and a half right he was trained to be a professional
37:13
photographer and he worked for several photographers in the commercial photographs in new york city
37:19
and for a while he was actually on the staff at the church of scientology
37:24
in what capacities staff member whatever they do
37:30
was that related to his photography or was that no no
37:35
now did he go when he was on the staff did he go it was a regular nine to five job did he go in there every day and
37:41
return every day or yeah [Music] and when did he
37:46
leave the staff at the church of psychology um
37:55
1977. i don't know the date i really don't know the day but he did
38:02
leave the staff and there came a time when he started working here with the answering service when he left the staff
38:08
he went back to work for tony peterson right and when did he start working here full
38:13
time 1978 okay and when he worked here full time was he
38:19
still very active with the church of scientology he was active with the church in scientology until the moment
38:24
of his death he is he is very proud of being part of it and as an active member did he go there on a regular basis why
38:31
are you asking this i've already answered you no yes he did well it's not a nine to five job they are they have
38:38
they are open at ten o'clock in the morning till ten o'clock at night nobody works those long hours
38:44
he worked whatever his schedule was could you give us a couple of minutes to
38:49
ourselves sure sure [Music]
38:54
time is now uh 307. we took a short recess that i could have
39:00
a conversation with my clients
39:05
uh us leader question before about having a conversation with linda o'connor last week
39:11
and uh we would like to clear the air in our little piece of business yes i did talk to linda
39:17
okay i explained to you previously linda's very concerned about her job
39:23
linda asked me not to mention speaking to her she wants no connection with us she feels it will
39:29
endanger her position obviously linda didn't hesitate to tell you or your people in north dakota that
39:36
she spoke to me so i don't feel bound by that anymore okay did speak to her and we did go over
39:44
much the same things we had gone over at the time of john's death could you just tell us the substance of
39:50
the conversation as best you recall and when was the conversation conversation was last week i honestly am
39:56
not sure of which day okay what day did i see you on friday
40:02
friday it may have been either wednesday or thursday evening
40:08
uh basically what it was was i asked her if she had been contacted
40:14
and i asked her to tell me everything she could think of that was important
40:21
i asked her if she had been notified about michael's death and she told me yes and she described that
40:27
terry gardner telling her about michael's death the other thing was just basically
40:33
i said do you think do you you think this is true what they're
40:39
saying she told me that 90 of it no about john being involved in
40:45
drug obviously that's a matter of public record yes he is i think that's really about all it was
40:52
now before you spoke to linda had you spoken to anybody else up in north dakota craig in order to reach linda
40:58
and did he tell you uh who the investigators we had were what their names were no
41:04
because linda indicated to our investigators that you had told her that one of the gentleman's names was
41:11
mike no and we were just going i have no way of knowing that i didn't even know that you
41:16
had people out there but you had spoken to craig prior to speaking olympia and the only conversation i had with craig
41:23
was to get linda's phone number and again did you do you think john could have done these weird things they're saying
41:30
what do you think his frame of mind was at that time you spoke to her a long time you spoke about an hour and a half yeah
41:38
and it was just just going over the uh circumstances of john's death and uh
41:44
and that was it i told her a little bit about the
41:49
publicity here you know just the way they were wording it here as opposed to the way it was worded in north dakota
41:55
she read me some newspaper articles because of course as you know she spoke
42:01
to our investigators at length with regard to this and of course told them about her conversation with you she
42:08
did tell me that she had an appointment she was very nervous about it she had told them to call her at a
42:13
certain time of day and she was going to set up a meet with them but she said she didn't want them to
42:19
know that she'd been in touch with us recently just because she's so afraid of losing
42:25
her job and have you spoken to her since that time no definitely not have you spoken
42:30
to anyone in north dakota since big new london no i have not is it somebody else that
42:37
she's supposed to have talked to no that's why i'm asking no
42:43
day i spoke to terry gardner and to this whatever the sheriff's name is swan
42:49
and this past week when i spoke to linda other than that i don't and correct i
42:55
haven't talked to anyone else in north dakota when you spoke to terry gardner and sheriff schwann
43:00
did you question him about what happened to john's property his wallet his clothing
43:06
any of his personal effects yes and what did they tell you they told me they were impounded they had an open investigation
43:11
they didn't have to release until the investigation was closed that they were not going to release it
43:18
did you discuss with them at all any question with regard to whether or not is in fact john that died in north
43:23
dakota i don't remember but i would imagine my
43:30
conversation with down the state police department well that i don't know whether it wasn't i do not remember
43:36
specifically discussing it does terry gardner believe that your brothers would want to die in north dakota
43:43
apparently i can't answer for him no but has he ever mentioned
43:49
i i don't remember anything specific about that obviously he's investigating my
43:54
brother's death that's what he told me so i'm assuming he thinks it was john
44:01
mr carter you have any reason anything you know to back your mind you can think of why david berkowitz picked on your
44:08
family can we walk in the backyard
44:16
we know where it is no no no i know where the apartment is and i i've seen no i've seen pictures don't
44:23
tell them no in my mind i was trying to thank them the answer you must have had enough
44:28
times by now or is the person you've never seen i have never seen it never spoken to never
44:35
though and uh and of course you've read all the articles john wheaties
44:42
and your name certainly mentioned a number of times can you think of anything that was there
44:47
any possibility that somewhere you might have run into them somewhere
44:52
that you know something that the back of your mind you know never really clicked because no one really ever asked you about it
44:58
not to my knowledge had wheat you had never been
45:07
not at all did he ever call here
45:12
that you know that any one of the three of you ever received a phone call
45:35
okay you know we had threatening phone calls you know all of them you know all the letters that you see
45:41
how would we know whether david brookwood's made those calls well that's why i'm asking you he never identified
45:47
himself as david berkeley so in any of the threatening calls that she did receive there were no there was
45:52
no indication there was no names they didn't say i'm so-and-so okay now
45:58
when you ask me haven't i read all the reports there were many reports there were thousands of pages i haven't i can
46:04
assure you that i have not read every one of the many thousands of pages of reports that were given to the various
46:10
police officers who were involved in the investigation and the reason i'm asking the questions is so that you can because
46:18
you're the first-hand person so that you can let me know about them all right no
46:23
we did not ever know who was making the threatening phone calls the person making the calls
46:30
never said i'm david berkowitz i am calling you to annoy you or any such thing as that
46:35
when you got the phone call from the casaras mr mrs casara you knew rochelle
46:42
with regard to having received a card get well card
46:48
and you contacted them
47:29
you