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LAL — Jordan Neely, Trump & Carroll, Use of Bogus Experts, Prisons and Mental Health (May 4, 2023)
Day 84. Day seven of jury deliberations. Hang on to your seats.
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LAL — Stream of Consciousness Tucker, Hunter's Black Box, Gaetz/AOC Team Up (May 3, 2023)
Day 82 of United States v. Joseph Biggs, et al., and Day 6 of jury deliberations. Roger Parloff reported via Twitter about the jury notes and questions sent to the court, which indicate that a verdict may be very close at hand. Norm updates.
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Today:
› Judge in Hunter Biden's Child Support Trial Laments Biden's Heavily Redacted and Sealed Disclosures of His Financial Information — Sound Familiar?
› Tucker Carlson 'Leaks' — Media Baits Race in Text Messages Surfacing from Carlson's private conversation on the topic of political violence. What, if anything, can we learn?
› An Unlikely Alliance: Rep. Matt Gaetz and Rep. AOC Have Co-Sponsored Rep. Brian Fitzpatrick's Bill, H.R. 3003, to Restrict Trading and Ownership of Certain Financial Instruments by Members of Congress and Their Families — Perhaps Too Little Too Late?
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LAL — Mike's Definitive Statement on Bud, CT Prisons & Immigration, Death Penalty (May 2, 2023)
It is Day 81. Raise your hand if you remember when Kobe dropped 81 points in a single game. Not that those two things have anything in common beyond the potential for something miraculous. Jury deliberations in United States v. Joseph Biggs, et al., enters its fifth day. Scheduling issues with various jury members portend an extension of Norm's stay in DC for another couple of weeks.
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Today is one of those days that will probably run well over the normal time:
› Mike makes his definitive statement on the controversy surrounding Bud Light, the nature of the beer industry, and how your favorite talking heads are not doing right by you.
› Connecticut's Sentencing Commission released a report that reveals a staggering statistic for our consideration: 95.5% of incarcerated inmates have or had a history of mental health disorders, substance abuse disorders, or both. What does this report say about the nature of community in America? Can Norm and Mike weave a delicate thread here to immigration?
› From yesterday, a Massachusetts middle schooler claims to have been sent home from school because his t-shirt, which read "There Are Only Two Genders," somehow violated the student conduct policy. What is the state of free speech in the American public education system?
› Death Penalty: Senate Bill 450 ("Death Penalty") was signed into law yesterday by Florida Governor Ron DeSantis. What is the role of capitol punishment, and does broad absence from modern American life partially explain a broad decline in public morality and accountability?
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LAL — Eric Trump Deletes Tweets, Justice Alito Knows Identity of Dobbs Leaker, More (May 1, 2023)
We have done it. We have reached Trial Day #80 in United States v. Joseph Biggs, et al., in which five (5) members of the Proud Boys are charged with seditious conspiracy in connection with the events of January 6, 2021. The jury has been deliberating since early last week. Norm has planned to be in DC for yet another week more.
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Today:
› The Washington Post Reports that Justice Samuel Alito Claims to Know the Identity of the Leaker of the Dobbs Decision — What Can We Learn?
› President Donald Trump's Son, Eric Trump, Has Deleted Tweets After the Court Sitting for the Civil Trial in Allegations of Rape Against Donald Trump Warns of Legal Consequences
› A Middle School Student Has Been Allegedly Sent Home from School for Wearing a Shirt that Reads, "There Are Only Two Genders" — Free Speech in Public Education Appears to be a New First Amendment Battleground
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LAL — Why Trump Will Be Indicted in #J6, Forestalling Cashless Commerce (April 28, 2023)
It is Day 79 in United States v. Joseph Biggs, et al., the trial in which five (5) members of the Proud Boys are charged with seditious conspiracy in connection with the events of January 6, 2021. Today will mark Day 3 of jury deliberations. Will deliberations spill into next week?
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Today:
› Norm makes the case for why President Donald Trump will be indicted for his role in the events of January 6, 2021, and what the resulting impacts will be on the United States of America
› North Carolina has introduced legislation to require businesses to accept cash as a form of payment — Mike breaks down the current state of federal law on the subject and why this legislative intervention is useful for an informed public
› Former Vice President Mike Pence testified before a federal grand jury yesterday in Washington, D.C.
› Olympia School District in Washington State cut funding for stringed instruments and band for 4th and 5th grade students — a culture of excellence is exclusionary, don't you know?
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Law and Legitimacy — Tucker Speaks with Echoes of Vivek, A.I.'s "heart on my sleeve" (April 27, 2023)
Day 78. The first day of jury deliberations in United States v. Joseph Biggs, et al., ended without a verdict. Norm shares some initial thoughts about the case. One of the five (5) co-defendant's, Enrique Tarrio, sat for an interview now published in Politico.
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Today:
› Tucker Breaks His Silence via Twitter with a 2-Minute Video — What is America Building?
› Generative Artificial Intelligence is Poised to Disrupt the Music Business — While There is Little Sympathy to be Had on This Side for the Record Label Cartels, LAL is Taken with the Question of Where Humanity Fits Between the Poles of Federal Copyright Law and A.I.'s Training on Individuals' Bodies of Work
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Law and Legitimacy — April 26, 2023 — The Fight to Gag Trump, Kohberger, LGB Hoodies, Music Banned
Gilligan has finally gotten off the island. Norm will get to leave Hotel California. The case of United States v. Joseph Biggs, et al., the trial in which five (5) members of the Proud Boys are charged with seditious conspiracy in connection with the events of January 6, 2021, has been given to the jury. Norm delivered his closing argument yesterday, the prosecution presented its rebuttal, and both sides have rested.
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Today:
› The Fight to Impose a Gag Order on President Donald Trump is Officially On, as Predicted
› A Surviving Roommate, Bethany Funke, is Resisting Bryan Kohberger's Defense Counsel's Call to Testify
› The State of Washington's Olympia School District is Getting Rid of Music Classes to Combat 'White Supremacy'
› FIRE (Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression) Has Sued Michigan's Tri-County School District for Violation of Students' First Amendment Rights — 'Let's Go Brandon' Hoodies are a Bridge Too Far, Apparently
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Law and Legitimacy — April 25, 2023 — Tucker'd Out, Lemon Zested, Fox the Behemoth, DNC Says No Primary Debates
Day 76 is here. Norm is set to deliver closing arguments in United States v. Joseph Biggs, et al., the trial in which five (5) members of the Proud Boys are charged with seditious conspiracy in connection with the events of January 6, 2021. It has been a long and tortured road. Monday's proceedings were fraught, as if anyone expected anything less. Mike will overrule Norm's objection one more time and he'll be on his way home.
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"Bloody Monday" is how Norm described the news as it was breaking:
› Fresh of the heels of its landmark settlement of the defamation lawsuit with Dominion Voting, Fox News announced the departure of the magnanimous and prolific Tucker Carlson. Combined with last week's departure of Dan Bongino and with the 2024 Presidential Election rearing its head, one must wonder whether Fox News and Rupert Murdoch are walking over their own land mines.
› The most insufferable, Don Lemon, announced his termination from CNN yesterday as well. Lemon's most notable recent moment was an on-air moment of incredulous stupidity brought about by one Vivek Ramaswamy. Are the two events connected?
› President Biden's Domestic Policy Advisor, Susan Rice, has also stepped down. The federal executive office veteran is attributed with many of the Biden admin's most public policy faux pas, notably the failing policy of America's southern border. What does the timing signal about the future of the Biden administration?
› It has been reported that the President Joe Biden will not participate in the 2024 presidential primary debates. Is this the most credible criticism of federal election legitimacy?
› May elected public officials block users on Twitter? The Supreme Court is set to finally answer the question that originates back to the Trump administration.
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Law and Legitimacy — April 24, 2023 — Bragg Settles, Pomerantz to Testify; the "War on Words"
We're live from Day 75 on Gilligan's Island aka Hotel California aka United States v. Joseph Biggs, et al., the trial in which five (5) members of the Proud Boys are being prosecuted with charges of seditious conspiracy in connection with the events of January 6, 2021. Closing arguments are set to begin today, with Norm trending to bat cleanup on behalf of the defense.
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Today:
› Manhattan District Attorney Alvin Bragg Has Dropped His Lawsuit Aimed at Precluding former Manhattan Prosecutor and Author, Mark Pomerantz, from Testifying Before Congress Pursuant to a Congressional Subpoena by Chair of the House Intelligence Committee, Jim Jordan
› The American Library Association is Set to Announce Today the Most Banned Books of 2022 — How Do We Best Understand What Advocacy Groups, like Moms for Liberty, Intend for American Public School Students Through Efforts to Preserve Titles in Public School Libraries that Represent the Crux of a Uniquely American Cultural Conflict?
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Law and Legitimacy — April 21, 2023 — Biden's HUD Reparations, Baldwin Skates, Priests Vow Jail Time
It is Day 74 on Gilligan's Island aka Hotel California aka United States v. Joseph Biggs, et al., the trial in which five (5) members of the Proud Boys are being prosecuted with charges of seditious conspiracy in connection with the events at the Capitol on January 6, 2021. Closing arguments are anticipated in short order. Norm lays forth the coming days.
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There is much to discuss today:
› The Biden Administration is Building Back Better — As of May 1, 2023, New Homebuyers with Good Credit Will Pay More for Mortgages Than Those with Poor Credit and Less Cash for Down Payments
› Alec Baldwin is Due Back on Set in Montana to Finish Filming His Latest Movie, "Rust." That's Because the Involuntary Manslaughter Charges Against Him in Connection with the Death of Halyna Hutchins on Set in October of 2021 Have Been Dropped by the Sante Fe, New Mexico, District Attorney
› Catholic Priests in Washington State Have Vowed to Risk Jail Time for Any Violations of a Potential Law Promulgated by the State Senate That Portends to End the Seal of Confession
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Law and Legitimacy — April 20, 2023 — Babylon Bee Sues California, North Carolina is Hot Hot Hot
It is an unofficial holiday for many people across the country, but over here at Law and Legitimacy we are high on life and the pursuit of a better future for our shared and sacred republic. Pace yourselves.
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Day 73 begins in Gilligan's Island aka Hotel California aka United States v. Joseph Biggs, et al., the trial in which five (5) members of the Proud Boys are prosecuted with charges of seditious conspiracy in connection with the events at the Capitol on January 6, 2021. We may be on the cusp of closing arguments. Norm updates.
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Today:
› The Babylon Bee Announces a Lawsuit Against the State of California — Reminiscent of Rumble/Locals Suit Against the State of New York?
› North Carolina's Legislature is on Fire — Rep. Tricia Cotham Remains in the Spotlight as the Republican Veto-Proof Supermajority Introduces Bills Aimed to Restructure Primary Education Funding, and to Regulate Participation in Middle School and High School Athletics
› BONUS: "Incentivizing Space Spirits" Anyone? Bill Before North Carolina Legislature Portends to Authorize the Aging of Distilled Spirits in Space
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Law and Legitimacy — April 19, 2023 — Was Norm Right? Fox & Dominion Settle, Texas, Russia and Leaks
Day 72. Buckle my shoe. United States v. Joseph Biggs, et al., affectionately known to LALiens as Gilligan's Island, the trial in which five (5) members of the Proud Boys are being prosecuted with charges of seditious conspiracy in connection with the events of January 6, 2021, continues apace. And it will likely continue through next week. Norm provides a brief update of how Tuesday transpired.
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Norm made a prediction on Monday that the Fox & Dominion defamation lawsuit would settle on Tuesday. He also wagered that the settlement amount would be in the neighborhood of a quarter billion. Dominion is reported to be walking away with a bit more than that, but let's give credit where it is due. Norm called his shot—like the Great Bambino—a knocked one out of there.
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Today:
› FOX & Dominion Settle — What Does It Mean?
› Amarillo, Texas, Judge Kacsmaryk and the FDA
› Is the US Courting Hot War with Russia? The Latest Intelligence Leaks Tell a Grim Story
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It's Hump Day. Let's get it.
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LAL Daily — April 18, 2023 — AB InBev's New Commercial, Justice Clarence Thomas, Judge Kacsmaryk
The sun rises on Tax Day and Day 71 of United States v. Joseph Biggs, et al., the trial in which five (5) members of the Proud Boys stand prosecuted with charges of seditious conspiracy in connection with the events of January 6, 2021. Norm expressed some belief in yesterday's stream that the trial would likely extend beyond this week and into the next. Did Monday's events do anything to change that?
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Today, Norm and Mike carve LAL's path back to two topics that were slated for yesterday's stream before taking a backseat to the FOX & Dominion lawsuit discussion that electrified the live chat. They also make room for a new topic:
› AB InBev—parent company to the embattled yet ubiquitous light beer maker—debuted a new commercial. What does that new theme convey about the events of the last several weeks?
› Justice Clarence Thomas is under media fire for what some may describe as ethical conflicts with a long-time wealthy friend
› Judge Matthew Kacsmaryk is similarly in the news for the pro-life decision handed down out of Amarillo, Texas
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LAL Daily — April 17, 2023 — FOX & Dominion Lawsuit
Day 70! Gilligan's Island aka Hotel California aka United States v. Joseph Biggs, et al., the trial in which five (5) members of the Proud Boys are being prosecuted with charges of seditious conspiracy in connection with the events of January 6, 2021, continues apace. Norm updates the LAL viewership as to what the week may hold.
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Today, Norm and Mike discuss:
› Dominion Voting's Defamation Lawsuit Against FOX
› Justice Clarence Thomas's Recent Media Tribulations
› Washington Post's Reporting on Judge Kacsmaryk out of Amarillo, Texas
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LAL Daily — April 14, 2023 — #AMA with Norm and Mike!
Court is paused today in United States v. Joseph Biggs, et al., the trial in which five (5) members of the Proud Boys are being prosecuted with charges of seditious conspiracy in connection with the events of January 6, 2021. It seems, then, that we will be stuck on Day 69 all weekend long. Have a nice one!
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Today is a special one-hour stream! This is the second installment of Law and Legitimacy's Q+A format—#AMA. Norm and Mike will take questions from livestream viewers, particularly those submitted by way of Locals members and subscribers! Type your questions in the chat, send them via email, or mention @PattisPodcast on Twitter.
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LAL Daily — April 13, 2023 — Religious Liberty and the Workplace; First-Grader Shoots Teacher
Uh oh. Do we do it? Dare we?
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It is perhaps the nicest day of Gilligan's Island aka the Hotel California aka United States v. Joseph Biggs, et al., Day 69. Five (5) members of the Proud Boys are being prosecuted with charges of seditious conspiracy in connection with the events of January 6, 2021. How nice will the day be? Could we finally be seeing light at the end of the tunnel?
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Today, Norm and Mike take up a couple of legitimacy-themed, nonalcoholic topics:
› SCOTUS is set to render an opinion in Groff v. DeJoy—the case that implicates Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which requires that employers make accommodations for the religious beliefs of employees provided that such accommodations are not an undue burden for the employer. In 2015, the United States Postal Service entered into a contract with Amazon which broke the long-tenured history of USPS employees not having to work on Sundays. Gerald Groff, the petitioner, was terminated from his career with the USPS for refusing to work Sundays, the day which holds sincere religious significance for Groff and which was worth the risk of being terminated from employment. How will the Court define or redefine precedent which illustrates the notion of "undue burden" with a standard of anything more than a de minimis accommodation?
› Remember when we covered the case of Ethan Crumbley, the Michigan high schooler whose parents were charged with negligent manslaughter after Ethan brought a firearm to school and killed four of his peers? Well, a first-grader in Newport News, Virginia, has reportedly brought a firearm to his elementary school and shot his teacher. The first-grader's mother, Deja Nicole Taylor, has been indicted by a grand jury on charges of child neglect and child endangerment. How do the cases compare?
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LAL Daily — April 12, 2023 — Alvin Bragg Sues Jim Jordan; Daniel Perry Seeks New Trial in Texas
It is Day 68 in what Norm affectionally refers to as Gilligan's Island aka the Hotel California aka United States v. Joseph Biggs, et al., the trial in which five (5) members of the Proud Boys are being prosecuted with charges of seditious conspiracy in connection with the events of January 6, 2021. Two (2) of the defendant Proud Boys have taken the stand as the trial nears its completion. Norm opines.
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Mike sent Norm a text acknowledging how frenetic it all seems. Today, the two discuss:
› Embattled Manhattan DA, Alvin Bragg, has retained an outside law firm and is suing Jim Jordan and House Republicans, and is also seeking a temporary restraining order from the court in an effort to block the House Judiciary Committee's subpoena of none other than former Manhattan prosecutor and author of the book for which Norm just this week tendered an on-stream review, Mark Pomerantz.
› Texas Governor Greg Abbott announced his intent to pardon Daniel Perry, the Austin, Texas, man convicted of the murder of Garrett Foster in connection with the events of July 25, 2020. The Washington Post now reports that Perry's legal team has petitioned for a new trial, citing evidence of jury misconduct and other evidentiary deficiencies of the criminal trial.
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LAL Daily — April 11, 2023 — Generation Zombie, White Collar Bullets, Rep. Tricia Cotham
It is Day 67 at the Hotel California aka Gilligan's Island aka United States v. Joseph Biggs, et al., the trial in which five (5) members of the Proud Boys are being prosecuted with charges of seditious conspiracy in connection with the events of January 6, 2021. Norm predicts that closing arguments in the trial are to occur later this week or early next week, with jury deliberations thereafter.
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Today, Norm and Mike have a lot on the slate:
› In Louisville, Kentucky, one Connor Sturgeon—a 25 year-old banker—livestreamed via Instagram his "alleged" slaying of 5 individuals inside of a Kentucky bank.
› Gen Z or "Generation Zombie"? The coalescing of the disquieted minds of the nation's youth appears to be approaching critical mass.
› Mike felt left out last Friday when Norm briefly covered the news out of North Carolina involving Representative Tricia Cotham's party switch from Democrat to Republican. The implications are meaningful and perhaps shed light on the broader crisis of legitimacy within the country's obviously dominant cultural forces.
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LAL Daily — April 10, 2023 — "Candy Ass" Norm on Pomerantz's Book and A.I. as a Threat to Objective Truth
Good Morning, LALiens! We hope all who celebrated had a wonderful Easter weekend.
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Norm remains in our nation's capitol of Washington, D.C., providing legal defense against the criminal prosecution in United States v. Joseph Biggs, et al., the trial in which five (5) members of the Proud Boys face charges of seditious conspiracy in connection with the events of January 6, 2021.
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Today, the duo meet to discuss:
› Norm's review of Mark Pomerantz's book entitled, "The People vs. Donald Trump." Norm picked it up over the weekend and has thoughts to share.
› The DailyKos's Mark Sumner published an article in late March called, "The wave of 'large language model' AI isn't just a threat to jobs, it's the end of objective facts." Well, is it?
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LAL Daily — April 7, 2023 — This Bud' for They/Them, State Politics Chaos, Life Expectancy Drops
The channel is on pause at the Hotel California aka Gilligan's Island aka United States v. Joseph Biggs, et al., the trial in which five (5) members of the Proud Boys are being prosecuted with charges of seditious conspiracy in connection with the events of January 6, 2021. With the court dark until Tuesday, Norm has a few days to enjoy in the Capitol over Easter weekend.
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Happy Good Friday to you all! There is no shortage of legitimacy-themed headlines to discuss. As time affords, Norm and Mike will tackle:
› Anheuser-Busch InBev aka AB InBev aka parent company to the manufacturer of Budweiser products—including Bud Light—is under tremendous fire after an influencer campaign with Dylan Mulvaney went viral. Mike jumped on a few grenades in the trenches of Twitter yesterday and has some insight to share.
› State legislatures have erupted in North Carolina and Tennessee. Albeit for very different reasons, each represents a sign of the times in American politics.
› A column in the Los Angeles Times reports that life expectancy is falling in the American south. Loyal listeners of LAL know that we have discussed what are termed "deaths of despair" at length on this show. What do we observe via the LA Times column?
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LAL Daily — April 6, 2023 — Veto-Proof NC Legislature; Prof. Jonathan Turley and #ChatGPT
It is Day 65 at the Hotel California aka Gilligan's Island aka the Most Important Trial of the Century in which five (5) members of the Proud Boys stand accused of seditious conspiracy in connection with the events of January 6, 2021 — United States v. Joseph Biggs, et al. There is light at the end of the tunnel, but the court may be sealing it.
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Today, Norm and Mike focus on a couple of items that had been previously planned but took a backseat to the Trump indictment news and developments earlier this week:
› Democrat Representative Tricia Cotham of Mecklenburg County is Reported to be Switching Her Party Affiliation to Republican, Affording the Republicans a Veto-Proof Supermajority in the North Carolina Legislature — What are the Short-Term Implications?
› Professor Jonathan Turley Penned a Piece in USA Today About the Dangers of OpenAI's ChatGPT, Which Has Reportedly Manufactured Fake Reporting Claiming Allegations of Sexual Harassment — How Should Liability for Such Defamatory and/or Libelous Statements be Apportioned?
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LAL Daily — April 5, 2023 — Trump Speaks, Indictment Revealed; NC Legislature; Chat#MeTooPT
It is Day 64 at the Hotel California aka Gilligan's Island aka the Most Important Trial of the Century in which five (5) members of the Proud Boys stand accused of seditious conspiracy in connection with the events of January 6, 2021 — United States v. Joseph Biggs, et al. Yesterday saw a significant portion of the day covered by sealed proceedings. Norm updates.
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Today, Norm and Mike have a lot on the agenda:
› Manhattan District Attorney 'Fat Alvin' Bragg's indictment has been made public, and perhaps the only surprise is that the public still has no idea what underlying crime in which President Donald Trump is alleged to have engaged that would elevate an otherwise paltry series of misdemeanor falsification of business records charges into first degree felonies.
› Following his arraignment in New York City, President Donald Trump flew home to his Mar a Lago estate, where he delivered a wide-ranging speech. That speech illustrates what Mike has been foreshadowing, which is that the alignment of the four (4) independent legal investigations into President Trump will manifest as a multi-front effort to forestall his presidential campaign in 2024. Mike has an idea of what this may all be about.
› Professor of Law at George Washington University and constitutional scholar, Jonathan Turley, wrote in USA Today about artificial intelligence's—namely ChatGPT's—threat to individual personal lives through completely fabricated allegations of sexual misconduct and harassment. Norm and Mike revisit parts of the Future of Life Institute's policy objectives. Specifically, what is America to do about the legal liability for such obvious threats to personal safety and well-being posed by ChatGPT's apparent willingness to fabricate such damaging stories?
› North Carolina's legislature is making headlines. Last week, the legislature voted to override Governor Roy Cooper's veto of a bill passed aiming to strengthen second amendment protections for citizens in the state of North Carolina. That vote to override was thanks to a supermajority in the state legislature only made possible by the absence of one key Democrat representative, one Rep. Tricia Cotham. Yesterday, it was reported that Cotham intends to switch her party affiliation to Republican from Democrat, thereby handing the Republicans in North Carolina legislature of veto-proof supermajority for the remainder of Governor Cooper's term. Mike updates on both the second amendment bill, as well as the impact on the new push for education reform across the state.
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LAL Daily — April 4, 2023 — The Bill of Rights 'Trumps' the Separation of Powers
It is Day 63 at the Hotel California aka Gilligan's Island aka the Most Important Trial of the Century in which five (5) members of the Proud Boys stand accused of seditious conspiracy in connection with the events of January 6, 2021 — United States v. Joseph Biggs, et al. Norm updates.
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Today:
› The Case Against a Gag Order on President Donald Trump — the American Constitution
› False Allegations of Sexual Harassment of Students Against a Teacher — Who Made the Allegations? Artificial Intelligence and ChatGPT
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LAL Daily — April 3, 2023 — Conspiracy Against Rights, Jury Nullification ,and Judicial Gag Orders
It is Day 62 at the Hotel California aka Gilligan's Island aka United States v. Joseph Biggs, et al., the trial in which five (5) members of the Proud Boys face charges of seditious conspiracy in connection with the events of January 6, 2021. Weeks ago, Norm predicted that he'd be lucky to be home in time for Easter. Just on the other side of Palm Sunday, how close will his prediction be?
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Today, Norm and Mike are fresh off of a rare Sunday livestream. If you were deprived of the nearly two hours, do yourself the favor and play that video back. This morning, the two discuss:
› Jury Nullification — Anons on Twitter hate it, but Norm seems to think there is a reason to believe the right of jurists to return verdicts contrary to evidence and/or established legal standards should be more popular. We look at the case of Douglass Mackey aka "Ricky Vaughn", who was just convicted under the Conspiracy Against Rights federal statute for conspiring to deprive people online of their rights to vote in the 2020 presidential election. Using memes. You read that correctly.
› Norm expects the first and most pressing legal issue attending to the Trump legal defense team in New York to be the potential of a judicially issued gag order. Especially with a Trump press conference tentatively scheduled for this week, how will this likely play out?
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Sunday Brunch Stream — April 2, 2023 — Norm & Mike
Current events abound. Lots of them. Norm and Mike convene late on this beautiful Sunday morning in early Spring to discuss.
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