Brooks LaPlante, "Bethesda 101" - DPUK 3/23/24 #1 Witness Charts, Key Evidence Summaries

3/23/24 on Dealey Plaza UK, full show 4 hours:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTabsL4AoA0
>Brooks LaPlante & Rick Russo re-examine the events at Bethesda on the evening of 22nd November 1963.
This is the link to Brooks' Powerpoint presentation:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/18C939NFhGiVmRm99m3zZr6nunaJv7irB/view?usp=drive_link
AUTO-TRANSCRIPT OF Full Video:

0:03
okay that's great all right well look I'm delighted that Brooks is back for the third time in about eight months or
0:09
nine months that's probably a record for presentations um in a text in a text
0:15
message uh yesterday he did refer to the fact that he'd spent 400 hours so far on
0:21
this topic um no no since since you asked me to do this presentation I've
0:27
got thousands of hours in this in the last day but um yeah Rick yeah Rick Russo did the
0:36
presentation in November in Dallas which I missed because I was over at Lancer I hadn't been to Lancer in a while but um
0:44
it it's a phenomenal presentation it really gets your head spinning and making you think about all the stuff
0:49
that went on at Bethesda and so NE you asked me if I somehow could arrange with
0:54
Rick to do this presentation for you guys over there in the UK and
1:00
and was happy to oblig so he's on board with us today I mean uh sort of
1:07
independently independently to that um Brooks I heard Rick um uh on a podcast
1:13
with St Patrick uh last year I think it was it was absolutely fascinating so I
1:20
suspect that this is going to be a a talk involving um ambulances and
1:25
autopsies and rooms and and all sorts of shenanigans um so
1:31
uh in terms of the format Brooke has requested that we don't actually ask
1:36
questions in the chat we don't interrupt until there's a convenient break uh in
1:42
the presentation whether that's all done or whether that's uh an interim stage uh
1:48
where we can have a a drinks break or or or a comfort break so please don't interrupt and just uh just save save up
1:55
your questions um but obviously um before we well before we actually start
2:00
the formal presentation if I could just ask both Brooks and Rick to introduce
2:06
themselves uh go over their bios and how they got into the JFK assassination I
2:13
mean obviously we know Brooks very well this is Rick's first um um interaction
2:19
with um de platy UK and and moreover of course this is being recorded and he's going out to a wider audience so if we
2:26
can just get the context and the background for the two research and then get into the into the meat of the
2:32
presentation please I'll go first and keep it short um I got drawn into really the study by
2:40
reading David lifton's best evidence which I'll talk about uh my mother was born on November 26 uh 22nd in
2:50
1931 U the day of the assassination on her 32nd birthday and she was born in
2:55
Southampton Long Island in the same hospital as Jackie Bouvier they were born about a year and a half apart she
3:01
loved the kennedies absolutely adored Jackie my father was a goat Republican
3:09
so they just cancelled each other out at the polls but uh she was devastated by
3:14
the assassination I have
3:20
um she was one of these more than one million people that
3:26
bought Manchester's the death of a president
3:31
when it came out um they sold more than a million copies in a within a few
3:36
months of the release it sat on bottom shelf of our coffee table for years and years and um at some point late life I
3:46
went through it uh and it it's a heavy lift I mean um Manchester waxes
3:53
poetically um he was telling a story really for um I would say the High
4:00
Society set not for us folks in the midwest who quite had to look up about
4:05
every other page would have to look one of the words in the dictionary but um but it was best evidence that lured me
4:10
in um but I I was involved with running a business family and everything and and
4:18
other than paying attention to a few things reading a few articles I really need to get back into it until
4:25
2013 and uh so I've been at it hard now I'm in my 12th year of really really digging into this thousands and
4:32
thousands of hours spent over that period of time and this is one of my key
4:38
topics and so Rick and I collided with one another several years ago um his
4:45
story his experience his knowledge in all of this um eclipses mind in a big
4:51
way but we feed off of each other things that we find we we share we go back and
4:57
forth and that's been highly productive I think and getting this to today so that's my story and I I'll let Rick tell
5:07
his well uh let's see I I guess for me
5:13
it began in uh September of 1991 when I saw a uh documentary series
5:22
on an American cable channel uh A&E uh called the men of kill Kennedy
5:31
and uh I had no idea that this was actually a series produced by a British
5:37
filmmaker for Central television uh because the way that the Americans uh
5:43
were presented this material uh they they had an American do the voiceover narration so uh at the time I thought
5:51
A&E had actually created this series only to find out that was British uh and I found it to be so
6:00
uh serious about the subject matter unlike the way that American News uh
6:06
media networks had treated it uh that I looked I was actually in the video
6:11
distribution business at the time and I looked into seeing if the video rights for this series was
6:18
available and was surprised to find out that it was A&E had only acquired the TV
6:23
rights and I was fortunate enough to to get for uh North America the video right
6:29
for the uh five-part series of M kill Kennedy and uh once I did so I felt a
6:38
certain responsibility uh to the material uh because uh at shortly afterward in
6:45
December 91 the JFK movie came out and all of a sudden for a number of months
6:51
uh into two uh 1992 the entire country is talking about the Kennedy
6:56
assassination unlike the stone film which takes theatrical license with some
7:01
of the information within uh this documentary series dealing with actual
7:07
Witnesses and so forth and so on um was considered uh more truthful information
7:14
and I felt the responsibility to learning more about the subject and and and representing this material as best
7:20
as I could and I can't quite remember exactly how it came about uh but the
7:27
Catalyst for this was in May of 19 1992 uh the Journal of the AMA jamama
7:33
came out with an article interviewing uh uh Dr jumes and Boswell the two autopsy
7:39
doctors of Bethesda and the agenda for this at least in my opinion was to pretty much
7:46
try to put the lid on the momentum that the stone film had created looking back
7:53
you know having people start to learn more and look back into the JFK assassination and and and uh and what
8:00
came out of the Jamma article um you know I felt was aggravating to say the
8:06
least and uh oh by the way a tidbit on that the Jamma article which uh by the
8:12
way was the lead story on all the network news shows that night and uh the
8:18
front page of the newspapers the following day actually came
8:23
out a day before the movie JFK was released on video in the United States
8:29
to the tune of over 450,000 rental copies I don't think that's a
8:35
coincidence but nevertheless the the jamama article spawned a I think a new
8:41
generation of people uh who delved into this uh people like Gary agard David
8:47
Mantic Jim Fetzer I called them the class of 1992 uh and I think I was a part of that
8:53
to a degree as well uh but because of the jamama article that was a Catal and
9:00
through uh the help of Paul Connor who is one of the Beth Bethesda Witnesses uh
9:05
I actually assembled five of The Men Who were at Bethesda that night in Pittsburgh in December
9:12
1992 and that uh that little get together was also attended by uh
9:18
forensic pathologist SEL W and R radiologist uh Randy uh
9:24
Robertson and uh and and from there uh I started to learn more and more about the
9:31
subject and started going to more conferences and meeting more people and talking to more witnesses and and the
9:38
one good thing about having the video rights is that people would contact A&E
9:43
wanting to purchase a copy of them and they couldn't and a& E would then forward these people to me so they could
9:51
buy them and a few people came out of the woodwork during this time with
9:56
stories and information about the Assassin ation um because they couldn't reach an
10:02
Nigel Turner or an olstone and ended up speaking to me and and I came up with
10:08
some very interesting uh uh information from that as well but uh you know uh and
10:15
then and one other thing because I don't want I don't want to keep you is that uh
10:21
as these people contacted me and I learned more and more about certain aspects of the
10:26
assassination um the A&E created a new channel called The History Channel uh in
10:33
1994 95 and they realized that the video right I had uh actually subl licensed
10:40
the video rights to them by that time and they realized that they needed them for the History
10:45
Channel and so I said okay I'll do that on one condition that we create a new
10:52
episode for the series uh that would run Co coincide with the premiere of the uh
10:58
of the series on the History Channel and and so I co-produced episode number six
11:04
with Nigel Turner uh called the truth shall set set you free and then a few
11:09
years later Nigel contacted me uh in 2003 uh and I was also consulted on a
11:16
show uh called the smoking guns which I believe was episode seven in the series
11:22
and and uh I I think that pretty much brings us up to
11:28
date I don't know if you have any questions um I did actually have one
11:34
question Rick um one of our members suggested that Nigel Turner would be a
11:39
good guest for us um is he still alive and do do you have his contact
11:45
details no uh he disappeared after the whole
11:51
controversy of of episode nine the guilty men and the heat that the network
11:58
received the American Network received A&E and and its parent company from uh
12:04
uh from lbj's former uh uh press secretary uh his name's escaping me
12:11
right now I don't know why I can't remember it because he's very prominent he was je Valen I'm sorry was it Jack
12:18
Valente yes thank thanks Brooks Jack Valente and Valente brings in two former
12:24
presidents Jimmy Carter and Gerald Ford to put pressure in the networks and nether to say after running for about a
12:31
week or so the series was pulled it was banned which in in television history in
12:38
the United States I can't think of any other show that was actually banned after it already had aired you know and
12:45
so after that whole controversy uh sometime after that uh we just lost
12:50
touch with Nigel alog together I have no idea if he's alive or dead or whether they paid him a million dollars to go
12:57
away or what the deal is but it it it's a great mystery to me okay that's great thanks for clearing
13:04
that up okay uh Brooks you want to start [Music]
13:09
then all right let me see if I can't
13:20
um okay we
13:25
good yeah we can see that fine okay
13:31
um to get this effort off the ground Neil asked me um if I could kind of do
13:37
an overview the basics at Bethesda so we we decided to call this kind of Bethesda
13:44
101 this would make a great course at a college someplace you know
13:50
where you got students for a whole semester maybe three hours a week for 14 weeks you know you got 40 hours of which
13:57
to present and you give them ACH of reading material so I'm going to try to pull the nuggets out of this whole story
14:05
and then set the table for Rick to kind of jump in and and take it from there with what he wants to talk about and I'm
14:11
going to try to do it in an hour so we're in the last week of class right
14:16
before spring break and uh we're just going to cut to the to the chase on this
14:22
one um all
14:28
right Neil you already covered this I appreciate the people respecting this
14:34
I've been in in the presentations and the chat kind of tends to take on a life
14:40
of its own and uh so it's running in parallel with the presentation and as good as it is you know to get questions
14:46
out and whatnot there's a lot of chitchat and it ends up kind of being a distraction but
14:54
um all right I think the story basically boils down to
15:01
what you're looking at here what the doctors nurses and people
15:07
at Bethesda at at Parkland saw in terms of a wound in Kennedy's head compared to
15:13
what the people at Bethesda say they saw when they first took Kennedy out of the
15:18
castan and wrapped the head and examined him and there's a huge
15:27
disparity one of the things that we have to consider and I'm not here to impune or indict um the US Navy or any of the
15:36
people involved in this Saga because they're they were following orders so Admiral Galloway on the right
15:42
he was the um commanding officer U of Bethesda the entire complex
15:50
and then he had various captains that reported to him Canada Stover others um
15:57
Berkeley was kind of his peer was an admiral but he was the White House U
16:03
physician and he obviously would in in this whole episode would would have
16:08
Johnson's ear to an extent since he was based in the White House and very easily would be the goet I think on the night
16:15
at the 22nd between whatever the White House was concerned about and the
16:20
proceedings in the morg uh also interacting with the Kennedy family so he everything kind of flowed through
16:26
Berkeley the fellow on the lower left is a NE Aid that's Taswell Shepard the naval Aid to Kennedy and under his um
16:35
command in the White House were the two White House photographers that you see on the right U Robert Newson and Cecil
16:47
stouton you're all familiar with this um the arm twisting that obj did to get um
16:54
Earl Warren to accept the leadership of the commission and The Chariot um same
17:00
thing for Senator Richard Russell and the the early behind the
17:06
scenes banter was all about very much concerned about a communist conspiracy because of oswal's background having
17:12
lived in Russia um handing out proastro literature and so on and so forth uh no
17:19
one quite knew exactly I think um some did some knew what was going on but the vast majority didn't and so this was
17:27
kind of the storyline you know let's kind of keep a lid on this and be very careful what gets out in the stories that are
17:33
told and because we don't want to start World War I three key men that we'll talk about in
17:41
this are Paul o Conor and I got Paul's name spelled wrong in the slide sorry about that um Jim Jenkins the two of
17:49
them were the laboratory texts that had the duty in the morg that night and Dennis David who all three of
17:58
these are are a hero in this host Saga to varying degrees um I've met Jim Jenkins numerous
18:06
times uh interacted with him um was a hard man to get to um I think my take on
18:15
Jim was that he was highly traumatized if you've ever seen and particularly
18:21
observed them in person I think to this day what happened
18:26
in Bethesda on 22nd was
18:32
uh really took a toll on him and William law was kind of his
18:41
um his uh well everything had a flow through William basically um you know
18:49
you couldn't really get to Jenkins and haven't been able to over the years here without getting through William and one
18:55
time it I think it might have been this or another session in in I actually slipped a piece of paper to William with
19:01
my name and cell phone and said hey I just need 10 minutes um and I never got that but I
19:06
think that William was trying to protect Jim and obviously um he's produced a
19:12
couple books and had a lot of U good stuff to Chronicle um what happened and
19:19
did produce some nuggets that nobody else did so it was his effort was worth
19:24
it speaking of trauma and the effect on memory um I found this story now this relates to
19:32
um Veterans of the Desert Storm era but post-traumatic stress disorder I'm not
19:38
saying that um Jenkins was necessarily in that category but my gosh the man was 19 years old he's done some autopsies
19:45
before but he's in there with all this brass you got Admirals gen generals
19:50
that's fairly chaotic and he's just trying to stay focused um and do his
19:57
job
20:04
I should have titled this slide differently the article was titled how memory works I should it should have
20:10
been titled how memory evolves one of the things that you encounter as you uh
20:16
study the this entire case and you read a lot of books you see how memories of
20:22
these various people change over time and and some events will merge and
20:31
in some cases they'll claim ownership as something that really it was someone
20:37
else's observation but you know they're latching on to it so it's it's a
20:43
bizarre um Journey that you're on as you read these testimonies and read stories
20:50
and and and read these various books to u to kind of sort it all out one of the
20:57
things I did regarding the um medical evidence and this this is just one page
21:03
this is a monstrous spreadsheet um and I tried to take input
21:09
from lyton ARB uh William laws books the house select
21:15
committee and just make out a massive spreadsheet where you where you see the little red dots here in the corner uh
21:22
Little Triangle that link opens up and gives you the reference so this is massive it's several hundred pag several
21:29
hundred rows down I don't know how many dozens and dozens of rows across it would make great
21:34
wallpaper um I got it about 90% complete and then I got into something else got
21:40
diverted and I actually never went back to it but in this effort as much as I
21:45
tried to get everything in front of me to where I could have quick reference still struggled to try to piece together
21:51
some of the stuff these were the categories as you go through the spreadsheet the casket arrival the
21:57
casket opening and initial observations at the opening x-rays photographs autopsy details the head wound and the
22:04
Brain specifics the back wound the morticians and so on uh finishing up with uh Doug
22:12
Horn's concerns coming out of the ARB um to prepare for this I reread best
22:19
evidence and I went through probably well 7 or 800 Pages maybe a th pages of
22:24
horns five volumes I think they total 1,700 pages so so it's a big lift to
22:30
kind of go through and just make your way through all of this um with the advantage of actually reading what what
22:38
lton wrote and what horn wrote is they they wrote it in well lton wrote it in
22:43
the first person and Horn kind of writes it in the first person on behalf of the ARB so you
22:50
really kind of get some interesting perspectives based on that um the
22:55
reading list if this would be too much for one semester um be lucky to get a college
23:02
kid to read one of these books but um and this is I don't have it all here
23:07
there's a lot but in terms of this particular theme the medical evidence the autopsy the
23:14
forensics um this would really be a tremendous reading list um if you get
23:21
down to agar and Cunningham I think that's on History matters how five investigations uh got it wrong that's a
23:29
very interesting breed um and of course David Mantic had a book
23:35
out that really detailed his take on the wounds and he's got a new one out with Jerome corsy I've not ordered it yet um
23:43
I just caught a quick glimpse of that the other day and he he attempts to do connect a lot of dots that's whether
23:49
it's the tippet murder or Oswald's Escape or what went on in D Plaza or any
23:55
of these rabbit holes you want to go in um it's a it's a real heavy lift to um
24:02
to connect the dots and you get involved in a lot of speculation you get criticized for
24:09
that um it's bad enough trying to fend off the what we would call the lone
24:14
Nutters the warrant commission um apologist but we fight among ourselves
24:21
and and we eat our own sometimes um the investigations reason I'm creating these
24:27
slides when people go back and read they can pause and they can and they they have some references here and some good
24:32
material but after the warrant commission the doj was digging into this uh largely because of all the books that
24:39
were written right you've got inquest you got whitewash you've got countless others that are that are being published
24:46
and a lot of people um you know rush to judgment people who are criticizing the
24:51
warrant commission just beating them down so behind the scenes the doj is
24:56
working on this and they had two military reviews where they brought in people
25:02
that were epithe and had them look at the photos and x-rays and we'll talk about that in a bit um the Clark panel
25:10
um attempted to to take a look at it followed by the Rockefeller commission and so
25:16
on it's interesting that the Clark panel was created because B
25:24
uh Lieutenant Commander Boswell who was one of the two op pathologist along with
25:30
uh Humes petitioned the justice department to take a closer look but then he later
25:35
admitted and I got this out of the five investigations reference that I gave you
25:40
that actually someone called from Justice called him and said hey would you write a S letter asking for this so
25:45
it was kind of a circular um process by which um this so-called
25:51
petition to take a serious look at things um began in the first place um
25:58
the big takeaway is that the Clark panel moved the entry point up and eventually the the Rockefeller
26:08
commission agreed and the house select committee um agreed and the reason they
26:13
did that is because on the left is a drawing of what
26:19
the warrant commission said happened the bullet entered low in the back near the external octobo well EOP tongue twister
26:28
it enter down close to the EOP and it this was kind of the path right coming in downward entering exiting above the
26:35
ear you see it on the right the problem with that is when you take a look at the zap rer film and the black line is true
26:45
horizontal and you check the path of the bullet as per the warrant
26:51
commission it's too flat a shot it doesn't work with the sixth floor of the schoolbook depository so the Clark panel
26:59
moved it up and then the house select committee agreed made a
27:05
drawing and you can see the difference
27:10
now and it's explained by this illustration on the left you see there the har the four fragments at the top
27:17
the Harper fragments on the left which wasn't found until the day after on the 23rd in Dilly Plaza then you have these
27:25
three bones that's supposedly came from Dallas um late in the evening they were
27:34
x-rayed and what's interesting is that Clint Hill testified that when he got up
27:40
on the back of the limo and looked into the car there was a chunk of the of the of the skull with hair attached scalp
27:48
attached sitting on the seat now these three bones from what I have read are just
27:57
pristine bones there's no there's no tissue there's no scalp there's no nothing um so trying to connect dots
28:04
where do they come from um and if you if just one comment if the
28:11
hole in the back of the head was really the one that I showed you early as as seen at Parkland these bones the way
28:18
they're Illustrated coming from the top of the head and if there was any Hanky Panky and alterations done um to get
28:26
into the head to get to the brain and whatnot and that process maybe these bones are were removed so the origin and
28:33
the chain of of custody of of the bones is something to be studied you can find
28:39
JFK's autopsy report um in the warant commission file commission exhibit
28:47
387 this is what they told us um about the wounds you can see the supposed
28:53
trajectory coming in through the back out out the throat and you can
28:58
see um small entry in the back of the head and then this large blowout above
29:04
the ear extending into the parial area nothing similar to Bethesda right
29:12
and they were going to pass that off there were two nurses that when
29:17
after Kennedy was pronounced dead everybody left the room there were two nurses in an orderly that were left in
29:22
there to clean the body clean the room and prepare him for
29:29
wherever he was going if he was going to the morg if he was going to be shipped out where wherever he was going it was just standard procedure they would clean
29:36
the body one of them was a British girl Diana Baron who had signed a contract came
29:42
over and started in September of 63 and was in the ER that day she helped remove Kennedy from the uh
29:49
limousine on put him on a gurnie and and went in with with that group into trauma
29:54
room one so she she was there in the beginning Margaret henchcliffe is another nurse and the two of them clean
30:02
the body years later
30:07
fortunately Herold Livingstone got to Diana bowon and they exchanged
30:13
letters and he got kind of to the bottom of what Diana saw there and she Drew
30:19
this diagram um and clearly she saw exactly
30:25
what everybody else saw but it gets even better
30:31
after cleaning the head and sopping up as much of the fluid that was still continuing to drain out of the hole in
30:37
the back of the head um she had stuffed which she says were Linens in there to kind of sop stuff up after that was all
30:44
done she took large Gau squares and with her fingers pushed and filled this
30:49
massive cavity in the back of the head so she had her hands in the wound
30:56
in trauma room one there's no better witness and
31:02
she and I I took this diagram and then I kind of Photoshopped it with these CL
31:08
squares but you can see how much she said a very large portion of the right hemisphere was missing slightly more
31:15
than half by her estimate and then a little bit on the
31:22
left as Kennedy's laying on the on the on the gurnie the table in trauma room
31:29
one on his back cerebellum is oozing out and cerebellum is way back as you
31:37
can see it in the lower rear part of the of the skull in Caraco mlen Baxter
31:43
Jenkins Clark and other saw damaged C cereum cereum sorry tongue twister for
31:51
this time of the morning what's interesting is that when you look at the actual autopsy photos right of the brain
31:58
there is no damage ladimir was I think the first um
32:03
third party guy to kind of get involved in review the the photos and x-rays he made that comment so did John Stringer
32:10
who photographed the autopsy we'll come to Stringer in a bit okay there were
32:16
x-rays taken at Bethesda and clearly I mean there was
32:23
damage all all throughout the skull but when you look at the X-ray the rear of the head seems to be
32:30
intact um fortunately the incredible work that David Mantic did having made numerous trips to U the National
32:37
Archives he did an optical density test on the various portions of the skull and
32:44
he found that this area back here was several several orders of magnitude
32:51
higher in optical density and the only way that that could be done is it's an artifact in other words they took this
32:57
this X-ray and they filled in the hole that was back there then on the right um there you can
33:05
see the yellow arrow is one of the very small there only two very tiny fragments that were found removed from JFK skull
33:11
there's one of them and then the red arrow is that mysterious artifact um the 6.5
33:18
mimer um arguably could it be a bullet I mean does a bullet's fragment but do they
33:24
really slice right in half or is this the actual bullet Lane perfectly aligned
33:31
into the angle of incidence of of of the X-ray what the heck is
33:37
it um and it and what's interesting is over the years as they were quered on this
33:44
Humes Boswell and thinkink the three doctors at the autopsy all said they never saw this on the night of the
33:51
assassination when they looked at the films okay two photos showing the back
33:58
of the head intact this actually caused a lot of
34:05
problems um as people would come back and and circle back and had access to this um Gerald kuster the X-ray tech for
34:12
one and there were several others that were persuaded and bought into this idea of this is exactly what the head looked
34:19
like um but it arguably it was done through scalp
34:25
manipulation um Boswell has been on record saying that and Doug horn
34:31
actually took the photos up and spent close to a week at Kodak they did
34:37
about $50,000 Pro bonal work and when they looked at these and there were other
34:42
people involved too they did stereoscopic analysis and whatnot they say no the images look okay to us Mantic
34:49
disagrees he studied these closely and he says there's something odd about these pictures in the back of the head
34:56
um but yet the apologist could win the argument to say no no no maybe there was a hole you
35:02
can't quite see the entire womb because they they manipulated the scalp they actually pulled the scalp over to kind
35:09
of cover up the hole to that I say
35:15
hogwash and in the autopsy report in the middle of this slide you see um some
35:20
fine print they're talking about four tears that were in the scalp AB b c d sorry I have a small dog and my wife
35:28
is returning from an errand so hang on one second okay all
35:35
right Lyon um made an attempt to explain how these four tears and Oswell uh and
35:42
Humes actually has it in the in the report they created essentially four
35:47
flaps two of them coming towards the front part of the head and according to
35:53
Lion's interpretation two of them going toward the the back when you read the
35:59
detail if you go down in the fine print here and you look at a it says from the right inferior temporal prial margin
36:06
anterior to the right ear that means in front of the right ear to a point slightly above the tus the tus is this
36:14
little tab right here if you can see on where I'm touching here on um some of
36:22
you uh it's that little tab there in the kind of the middle in the front of the ear so the tear actually extends down in
36:29
front of the ear so lifton has it in the wrong place the other one went forward and came um within
36:38
uh came down just beyond the hairline over the right eye so I repositioned b
36:47
as well so but the point being is there were four flaps so if you study this for a
36:52
while you know people can look at the diagram and say well the scalp was manipulated but if you take Humes at his
36:58
word that when he got the body magically there were the these four tears in in
37:04
the scalp and of course the big defect um you essentially had four flaps
37:10
which you could in theory peel back retract and see a lot have a lot more
37:17
access and he goes on to say and Boswell did too that as these flaps were pulled back pieces of bone of the skull were
37:25
attached to the flaps and other pieces of bone just simply fell
37:31
away that's their story but
37:36
conveniently when they get the body for the first time there's there's four
37:41
tears in there and you one can surmise that it was sufficient that if there was
37:47
some hanky panky going on prior to them having the body in the morg that these
37:52
tears were sufficient to open up the head and get the brain out get to whatever fragments were there and do
38:01
what they needed to do the last comment is just look at the basic geometry of
38:07
all of this you've got four flaps that all meet around the defect my might this is comical if
38:15
unless these are made of spandex you can look at this there's no way to take and
38:21
turn and move any of these flaps to cover up the defect
38:28
it's impossible one of thing that Bon did is
38:35
is and looking at the back wound this is key too she said as they were cleaning them they kind of rolled them over on
38:41
his side to wipe off the back and everything and she recalls that there was a small hole she thinks it's lower
38:48
um this is an image that Livingstone sent to her and he's marked it up he's pointing different things goes where was
38:53
the hole her one comment and this is her handwriting this is not the back I
39:00
saw but she thought the ho the hole was lower in the back it was
39:05
small and comparatively she says it was actually a lot smaller than the hole in
39:11
the front and the throat the official
39:18
timeline um Rick asked if I would definitely have a slide on this but uh so you can see if
39:27
Force One lands at 6:00 um and you can see the rest of it unfold here the two highlighted
39:34
lines um Rick is going to get into this delivery of a casket at the rear of the
39:40
hospital and it happened before the amulance got to the
39:45
front now depending upon who's watch if you're talking the FBI if you're talking news reporters there's a lot of sources
39:52
for this information Secret Service and their times vary a little bit you know the amulance it get to the front at 655
39:59
658 7:00 it varies a little bit the interesting thing is that um there's in
40:07
order to make the timeline work because autop the the autopsy
40:12
started according to Humes this warrant commission testimony at 7:35 that's when they received the
40:18
body well if the body is in the Dallas casket at the front of the hospital
40:24
around 7:00 there's plenty of time for it to come around to the the back be brought into the morg the body taken out
40:30
put on the table that all makes sense and to make that work you have to have
40:36
the two FBI agents cyber and O'Neal along with
40:41
Kellerman and Greer the two Secret Service guys that were in the front of the limo in Dallas the four of them
40:47
carry the casket in at 8:00 supposedly the military honored guard who's been searching for
40:53
the casket all this time uh finds it and they bring it into the the back of the
40:59
mor and that's when the pathological exam begins OK Conor gosh I spell it
41:05
wrong again here I was doing some of this late last night so I'll have to make some editorial changes here but
41:10
Paul o Conor enters the time in the morgog he specifically specifically recalls I put it in at 8 o'clock of
41:17
course the morg log disappears as does the log and Radiology um so we have no way to go
41:25
back to that the first incision was made at 8:15 now was that the Y
41:30
incision or was that an incision on the head because there are there were people
41:36
there that saw Humes actually take a scalpel to the head and then do some
41:42
additional cutting lifton's hypothesis when he gets
41:47
to the to the end of his journey um he proposes that the casket
41:55
when it lands in and Andrews is empty he doesn't know how the body was removed
42:02
when and where but he has two theories in this one it
42:10
was empty it was already out of the coffin when it was loaded onto Air Force
42:15
One at Lovefield in Dallas so the images on the left that's an empty coffin that's option a option b they took it
42:22
out of the coffin during the flight back to Washington
42:28
and that's a rabbit hole you can go down to a lot of people have worked on that but either way by the time it lands at
42:35
Andrews the coffin is empty there's the great mystery we're
42:41
not going to solve that today I have real quickly I and I'll
42:48
make this I can send this file to Neil and anybody's interested in having access to some of these spreadsheets and
42:54
whatnot but one of the things I did to try to get all the data in front of me is is
43:01
I took all these Witnesses both at Parkland and bethesa and just made a a
43:10
um I got a wrong slide in there sorry about that I have to correct that that's
43:16
not the that's not the Parkland Witnesses but um anyway the
43:22
um hold on let me see if I can find that just give me couple couple minutes
43:41
here no it's still wrong I got a bad slide
43:46
so okay here's the correct one if you can see this I'll get that corrected in
43:52
the slide deck I'm sorry but here are the witnesses at Parkland and you can see how many the
43:58
warrant commission in uh interviewed or deposed um you can see the ones at the
44:03
bottom here that William Manchester spoke with he doesn't really talk to any
44:08
of the doctors or nurses he talks to the administrator Jack Price the assistant administrator Steve landrian Earl Rose
44:16
of course the Undertaker the three priest
44:21
Earl Cabell and Henry Gonzalez several there's a longer list too but he's talking to political and and
44:28
administrators and whatnot he never talks to any of the doctors or nurses uh the house Select Committee
44:34
just a disclaimer in these slides the house select committee um is
44:44
um it's an incomplete list um and I need some help with that that's part of I
44:50
think the followup research that can be done on this um Rick may want to comment on that
44:56
at appropriate time but these house select committee depositions and interviews um we need to
45:03
create a database on those um some have been transcribed you can find some of
45:09
them on History matters but it's it's really an incomplete list some of them were hidden of course all of those were
45:15
designed to be kind of kept under wraps for for 50 years you know so we were never supposed to see any of
45:21
that okay the DC Witnesses this one is correct um
45:27
Manchester you can see who he interviews to create his book who lton does that
45:33
the assassination records review board talks to a few of them deposes the two FBI guys and here's the Le the rest of
45:42
the witnesses a lot of but does the people and so on so it's just a good convenient place to go one thing that I
45:48
wanted to show you um okay this First Column right here that's the do not talk
45:53
order the yellow column and lift in basically through a Freedom of
45:59
Information type request was able to get a document that def find the 13 people
46:06
who signed the order at Bethesda and so they're identified here unfortunately when he is talking about
46:13
this he doesn't give you the name he says the three p pathologist the two x-ray texts and he describes them by
46:20
their position not their name he lists the medical illustrator where you can see I have the question mark I didn't
46:26
know if that was SK skid ryberg and then he also says number 13 was an unknown
46:31
Navy officer whose name he had never heard of I found that very perplexing
46:36
but he doesn't in best evidence he doesn't give us the name of either the medical illustrator or the Navy
46:45
officer so it's a good reference page now at some
46:52
point they had to take the autopsy report and convince uh everybody at
46:59
Parkland that what's in the report is accurate so I believe it was the Secret Service who took the report made a trip
47:04
to Dallas and spoke with these guys and one of the things I thought about well you've got doctors and nurses in
47:10
Parkland you got Pathologists and and Professionals of of that trade in Bethesda you've got civilians in
47:17
Parkland you've got military people at Bethesda so you know what kind of um
47:23
standoff do we have here and what kind of Discord and it's you know you're really trying to sell these people in
47:28
Parkland who are experts in their Craft um and it was a it was a teaching
47:36
Hospital these guys were highly skilled and highly trained you're going to try to tell them that the autopsy got it right
47:45
so couple years back watching a baseball game or whatever with nothing to do I
47:51
started this process of just looking up all these buys at at Bethesda it's amazing to see
47:58
now it's less than 20 years from the end of World War II and a decade removed from Korea right these guys were all
48:04
largely military except for the the uh the residents and and the younger guys
48:11
um almost all your senior people there were all military and I'm going to highlight a couple Malcolm Perry served
48:18
in the Army his ultimate boss if you go down to the bottom was Tom shyers okay
48:25
shyers was not there on the day of the assassination he was away at a conference when he was given news he
48:31
commandeered a airplane at a local airport and hurried up to Dallas he got in around 3 o00 so he arrives at
48:39
3:00 and he he's the chief over all of the surgery surgery that's performed at
48:45
Parkland reporting to him are uh km Clark who was over neuros surgery Robert
48:52
Shaw who was the chair of thoracic surgery and Charles Gregory who was the chair of orthopedic surgery so he's got
48:57
this big bureaucratic um flow of of doctors
49:03
underneath him but ultimately it's it's it's Malcolm Perry who's a general and
49:09
vascular surgeon his ultimate boss is shyers and again shyers is not there he
49:14
does ultimately get involved in the treatment of Connelly who's recuperating um when you look at Tom
49:20
shyers he's ex-navy he's done two tours and he was stationed at Bethesda prior to the events of November
49:29
63 you go up to Robert Gman the second red little box coming down he worked for
49:36
Camp Clark and he had he was Army and he had done a stint at Walter Reed so it's
49:43
fascinating to look at all of this these people's background and at the very
49:48
bottom the FBI agent cyber O'Neal were both exair Force they both flew for the
49:54
Army aircore in World War II O'Neal was in the in the Air Force for a long time he's he served through
50:00
Korea um so it's fascinating to look at the background of all of this given that
50:05
the autopsy was done at a military in in installation but uh let's move
50:11
on all right as you sort this database here are the ARB witnesses there were 10
50:17
of them that were deposed all three of the doctors the two
50:22
X-ray techs two of the photographers and so on they also o depos the two FBI guys
50:29
um the rest of these are just interviews some in person some were
50:35
taped I have to do I get all the cows in the barn get it organized so ultimately you you know I have a quick reference to
50:41
kind of go to so I can understand exactly who's being um interviewed and
50:48
who isn't um and who's who's missing from the entire thing
50:54
um more on that in a bit okay there were two military reviews as I said that were
50:59
done in the mid-60s U to kind of stem the tide of um of
51:06
descent on October 29th the Kennedy family who had been in POS possession of
51:12
all the oopsy materials photos x-rays the brain in the stainless container the
51:17
slides that were prepared all of that they turn over to National Archives
51:22
archives to a deed of gift and that same
51:28
day William Pitzer commits suicide in his office in
51:34
Bethesda couple days later is when they do the first um military review think is in
51:41
Vietnam at the time so it's Humes Boswell the radiologist everol and
51:48
Stringer they come back couple months later they bring think back from Vietnam
51:53
and they do a second review so this is serious stuff and the first one you could say might
51:59
have sufficed but think wasn't there and they said after some consideration I'm sure they thought you know we can't kind
52:05
of pull this off and say hey we we had the the key people involved with the autopsy review all this stuff and
52:11
everything's copasetic well the problem is thinkink wasn't involved so they had to do it again but through both sessions
52:17
everybody involved said no everything looks great these are the photos and the x-rays that were produced from the
52:24
autopsy everything's authentic after five volumes and 1700 pages and
52:32
Doug horn does a phenomenal job of taking us through everything that the
52:38
ARB was able to accomplish his biggest regret and he fought hard is he wanted
52:44
them to interview he actually probably would have preferred a deposition he would like to have seen a sworn deposition of both Paul o Conor and Jim
52:51
Jenkins he couldn't even get an interview they never spoke with either one of those men
52:57
um but the the key takeaway I would put at the top of the list from the ARB is that there was an
53:05
examination of the brain that was done on Monday the 25th which was the day of the funeral and I think they were
53:13
actually maybe under the gun to try to get it done normally after you um put
53:19
the brain in Formula you a couple days isn't really sufficient you you'd be better off waiting maybe a week maybe at
53:26
least Le five days you know typically give it a good week right because it it sets up it gets firm and then it's
53:32
easier to to slice and and uh and take your sections but anyway they did it on
53:37
the 25th John Stringer took the photos and the brain was sliced for
53:44
examination several days later maybe as early as the 29th which
53:51
would been a full week after the assassination after the autopsy and perhaps a couple days later they I don't
53:56
know the exact date there was a second exam that was done think was not there
54:02
at the first one he was there at the second one and the brain was not
54:07
section um and then in July of 96 here's the Lynch pin the ARB puts John Stringer
54:16
under oath and they take his deposition he looks at all of these images of the brain of the photos and he realizes he
54:24
didn't take one of them cu there's a film pack involved the film type isn't correct it's just a Litany of things
54:31
that are wrong with this whole thing and of course the brain photos that he took included in the collection were photos
54:38
of the brain being sectioned um there's none of those but
54:43
in the second review that was done um near the end of November uh those photos
54:49
include the bottom of What's called the Bas view of the underside of the brain which Stringer said he never took that
54:55
photo he is so perplexed by all of this and again he's under oath at the very end he says he could not testify that
55:02
the brain that he's looking at and all these photos is actually the brain of the
55:12
president okay Jenkins and oconor again unfortunately had no contact with the
55:21
ARB they have different stories to tell the biggest takeaway in this and
55:27
there's there's a lot but I'm I'm not going to go through all of this but um
55:32
OK Conor said when the head was unwrapped and he got a good look at it essentially there was no
55:38
brain um the skull was empty and then he gets pinned down and he says well there maybe there was you know a little bit of
55:44
material maybe clinging to some parts of the inside of the skull but essentially the the the brain is gone the skull is
55:51
empty and he's he's been quoted numerous times as saying there was quote qu no
55:57
brain in the skull now Jenkins says there was a brain and it got removed and he and
56:04
Boswell took it over and to the um container that had the formula in it and
56:11
they infused it B uh Jenkins talks about and he did this at Lancer in 2013 and
56:18
and you can you can find this there's a lot of material out there but he says there's all a bunch there's a lot of
56:23
strange stuff about this brain particularly the on the underside where you would stick the needles in because
56:29
you just don't so immerse it and soak it in formul in you actually put needles in
56:35
some of these vessels and you infuse the brain like you would Infuse the body with IM bombing fluids the same concept
56:41
right so you want to basically have all this formin flowing throughout the entire brain all the vascular structures
56:49
uh to help preserve it and he says those vessels were
56:54
retracted and he says that normally doesn't happen until several days or a
56:59
period sufficient period doesn't it's not a it's fresh thing in other words you C you cut those you remove the brain
57:04
you take it over you infuse it these were pulled back and there's a there other damage to the brain that that
57:11
Jenkins is confused and he basically says it was a bit smaller than I would have thought and so on and so forth uh
57:17
so he doubts it actually is the actual brain that's what he told us that was the big takeaway at Lancer
57:24
2013 and um he Chucks up the difference between OK
57:31
Conor's take of the no brain in the head and they being a brain quote unquote
57:37
he's on record saying well Paul I kind of discussed this and we we just chalk it up the timing differences um I think
57:45
that is exactly what happened um I I may double back as part
57:50
of the Q&A and kind of give you my version of what happened there but I think they're seeing the head at different times
58:00
um at the bottom and I think many of you are wear this but when they look at all these
58:06
photos they're both on record of saying this doesn't appear to be our morg um the big takeaway from that is
58:14
that the right lateral view of Kennedy's uh head during in in one of these photos
58:20
shows a phone on the wall and they said that phone is in the wrong place that phone was not there in our
58:28
morg it was on the other side on the other wall of the and there's this passageway that leads out of the morg to
58:35
the back area where they have lockers they have a specimen room um the various
58:41
little small rooms in the back of the morg and that's the passageway he's talking about and the phone is actually
58:48
uh and their morg was on the left side of that passageway whereas in the photos it's on the right um and they go into
58:54
other things the big one also being the photo that shows this metal Stirrup this this u-shaped thing that's kind of
59:01
suspended under the head that's holding it up he said we didn't use that in that in our morg that wasn't in our morg we
59:07
used a a chalk Block in in and it was a metal structure that sat underneath on
59:12
the table and supported the head um so a lot of problems
59:19
um with um all of this in terms of what OK Conor and Jenkins saw quick look at
59:26
the two X-ray techs um they were hostile Witnesses by the time the ARB got to
59:33
them in the mid 90s they didn't want to talk and they had to be subpoenaed put under
59:39
oath they jointly agree that after the body was placed on the table they were
59:45
asked to leave and they were sent back up to Radiology on the fourth floor and told to wait
59:51
um again they had to be subpoenaed and they both agree after looking at all the x-rays that there's an x-ray of the neck
59:57
that is missing from the collection but there their stories under
1:00:04
oath to the ARB are radically different Reed said they came back from R Radiology after about 15 minutes he
1:00:11
never saw the Y incision in the Torso he says all the x-rays were taken before
1:00:16
that's Reed he took them all by himself he took them up to the fourth floor all by
1:00:23
himself without an escort but he also says he saw Humes use a saw to cut the
1:00:29
skull kuster on the other hand said the white and R Radiology was an
1:00:35
hour they took all the x-rays after the body was open after the Y incision into
1:00:41
the Torso and he took the x-rays with Reed as his assistant together they took all
1:00:48
the x-rays up to the fourth FL to be developed and on his first or second
1:00:53
trip up there he says as he was carrying the so you got to go all the way back to
1:00:58
the front of the hospital up to the fourth floor and the main part of what is building one to get to Radiology
1:01:04
that's where it's at and in that process of making that trip he sees Jackie enter
1:01:10
into the the uh Lobby or the retunda there at the main entrance but he's
1:01:16
already taken x-rays okay John Stringer the medical
1:01:24
photographer um he actually was the instructor he taught at Bethesda for 25 years he was the go-to guy and what's
1:01:32
interesting is he he knows how to position the body how to identify it put
1:01:37
you know put little markers in there you there's there's a protocol you follow in taking all these pictures right but in a
1:01:43
lot of these photos that isn't followed um he took only color photos no
1:01:50
Black and Whites but there are black and white photos in the collection he Sur surmises
1:01:55
well maybe they they made those Black and Whites from some of the collar photos he says Pitzer was never present
1:02:02
everybody knew who Pitzer was piter was in charge of all the audio visual in the hospital and he ran what what was called
1:02:10
the television operation within the hospital so again all the AV stuff um
1:02:16
this is a problem you get into because everybody knew Pitzer but none of these guys can remember him ever being
1:02:23
present he was in the morg with reey FL Reby a Corman who also took some
1:02:28
pictures but he took some pictures of with in the background he had various
1:02:33
people in the background so the Secret Service took his camera opened it up and destroyed his film pack um he did tell
1:02:40
while they were in line eating lunch at Bethesda he he confided in Horn and said
1:02:46
that his son who was a captain was up for promotion at that time to be an admiral um and again when he was put
1:02:53
under oath he told the ARB that the he doubts that the photos are
1:03:00
Kennedy's okay mystery man is Robert kutson who was the lead photographer at
1:03:08
the White House and according to the story he was
1:03:14
rumaging around in his garage midweek and he got a speck or something in his
1:03:20
eye and he had to get it treated and so he did not make the trip to Dallas he
1:03:26
would have been on that trip Cecil stouton took his place and took all those epic
1:03:33
photos um there's a lot of speculation whether or not uh kuten took these photos he he
1:03:40
looked at the photos uh and told the house select committee he was greatly Disturbed he
1:03:46
said there were long probes the body was sat up horizontally on the autopsy table and they took long probes roughly two
1:03:52
feet in length and they ran them through the brain from using several different uh through the back of the body using
1:03:59
several different angles one of them actually involving the upper part of the chest so they were trying to in this
1:04:07
effort that according to nson they were trying to ascertain the the the
1:04:12
trajectory the the path of these bullets through the body but yet there isn't one
1:04:17
photo in the collection showing any of these probes but yet he was adamant that
1:04:23
he had seen them he helped devel veloped that's part of what he did to uh he he
1:04:30
kind of supervised he was the go-to guy over the White House Lab at the
1:04:36
photographic Center uh in Anacostia which will come into play here in a minute but all these photos eventually
1:04:41
ended up take being taken over to NPC Anacostia where they were developed they had a a color lab they had a a black and
1:04:50
white area and um there's an officer over there but
1:04:56
SRA Spencer who comes into this because she she ends up being deposed by the ARB
1:05:01
and and tells her version of events but the question was always um Stringer was
1:05:07
in the morard with reeby they both confirmed that they they were there together and they were taking photos no
1:05:13
one can account for newson's presence however um he didn't tell the house of
1:05:21
collect committee he wasn't asking he didn't tell them outright that he took the photos
1:05:26
but he was very familiar with the photos and obviously was part of the group uh involved in the in the development of
1:05:32
the films at the naval photographic Center um but his he had died before the
1:05:39
ARB was able to speak with him but they did interview his wife and family and
1:05:45
she said that he told them that he took the photos and to prove it they put in
1:05:50
his obituary
1:05:59
okay I don't know how long this has been maybe maybe maybe five years ago four
1:06:04
years ago um there were things in Manchester's book as you're reconciling this and I go all the way back to that
1:06:11
chart and you're comparing what Manchester's saying to what lon's able
1:06:16
to dig up and and of course they're they're they're interviewing different people um I was very curious to find out
1:06:25
when he went to Bethesda he only spoke with Berkeley Canada and a lower ranking
1:06:33
officer by the name of Weir and we don't know who that is Rick and I
1:06:40
have talked about it that would be something to okay Joe hold on we're not
1:06:47
chatting um oh okay well I'll answer that question um all of Manchester's
1:06:54
interviews are under wraps at Wesleyan University in Connecticut and I took a
1:07:00
trip I went back east and I went out of my way I spent a couple days there I went into the Olan library in the
1:07:06
special collections area and you actually can see which boxes which
1:07:11
interviews are in you can see that online nothing's available online but by
1:07:16
emailing back and forth I was able to give them a list of boxes so when I got there on the first day they brought out
1:07:21
a big cart and I think I there were 12 boxes in total and I'm actually going
1:07:27
through these interviews it was interesting when he interviewed Robert Oswald they weren't transcribed he
1:07:33
actually had his yellow tablet you know his legal pad type yellow pieces of paper
1:07:38
um and I I could I'm holding in my hands his actual notes whereas most of these
1:07:44
are transcribed okay but there's a wealth of information in there because a lot of this stuff doesn't end up in in
1:07:50
in the book unfortunately you can't get the interviews with any the Kennedy family
1:07:56
members and you can't get any of the Secret Service interviews they're all they're all
1:08:02
locked up um I was interested in looking at um the interview that he did with the
1:08:09
Undertaker Vernon O'Neal at uh who was at Parkland
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and okay I'm getting to that Joe this is the actual these are copies
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of the actual now i' I blocked that out um the portions here because I signed a
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non-disclosure agreement you have to do that in order I but what's interesting is they let you take photographs of all
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of this but you can't reproduce these images okay you can argue maybe I'm I'm a little bit on the edge of the line
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here but this is I think there's seven pages
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um that I that I photograph I i' I've got dozens and dozens of these interviews I spent several days there
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this this is just three of the seven pages you can see how heavily redacted these are and they're largely Berkeley's
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comments so I don't know if Manchester did that or at some point I I think there was a a a checkpoint if you will a
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clearing process and somebody went through these with a with a black market and just
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redacted a lot of the Bethesda
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interview but again a very he didn't talk to any anybody that actually um was
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involved in performing the autopsy firsthand okay this is relevant this is
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one of the main reasons I went there Manchester has a chain of custody in his
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book The Death of a president and at Parkland he he basically tells this
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story that to prepare the body for shipment in the in the 's casket that
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Vernon O'Neal got a rubber sheet and some plastic bags and he wraps the head
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with roughly a half dozen six to seven bags over and over again he's wrapping
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the head shrouding the head with bags to contain any type of
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leakage um well he he basically also got a rubber sheet Doris Nel Nelson brought
1:10:22
these materials to trauma room one they laid a rubber sheet into the
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casket and then he wraps the head six times over over and over again with these bags and then when he's done he
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takes a rubber sheet and he folds it over the top of the body now at Bethesda
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when you're reading the book he says there's a point where General wheel
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is in the room standing at the foot of the table looking at the dead
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commanderin-chief um again it gets a little poetic here he
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just says he's a marvelous specimen has a has you know I I won't go into it but
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it's it's over the top but as part of that story that Manchester is presenting
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he says while he standing there looking at Kennedy's body the doctors are
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cutting the bags off the head so if you connect the dots one to
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the other what Manchester has done and this book was sold to millions of people
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he's proven the chain of custody of the body it left Parkland with bags stred around the head and when it got to
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Bethesda the bags were there and wheel of all people the commanding officer of the military District of Washington was
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standing there watching them cut the bags away lton then interviews wheel and
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will says that never happened I was not in the morg at that
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time I was elsewhere he was was making funeral Arrangement he's he's he's he's worried about the stuff he's got to do
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the next day the upcoming funeral where's he going to be buried what do we got to do big responsibilities so he's
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not in the Morgan the early phase of of the operation so um lifting then
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surmises that Manchester wrote his book just kind of by connecting the dots and leaves it at
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that but in his interview with wheel when you look at the actual
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interview there's no of it so it didn't come from
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Wheel so is Manchester involved in a coverup in this whole process of writing
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this book what you'll be amazed at the people he didn't talk to outside of a
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few employees in the Texas schoolbook depository the only people he talked to who were Witnesses in D Plaza were
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Ronald fiser and Howard Brennan that was the extent of the people that he
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interviewed I mean so you and and it again when he gets to Bethesda he's not talking to Humes and
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Boswell and everol and the rest of these guys right um so you you got to wonder
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what's going on now he's fed this information um we really don't know where they're coming from um was
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Berkeley The Source on that maybe what's interesting is that
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O'Neal does get I think the casket costs about $3,500 he gets close to $4,000
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he had to wait a long time he had to go to Washington to get paid Earl Cabell
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who's now a congressman actually helps facilitate that and and gets O'Neal
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paid which made me wonder in this whole process was O'Neal the
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one who was put up to maybe creating the story about putting the six bags on
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because dianaa Bon and Margaret hinchliff who were in there cleaning the body they never mentioned the six bag
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Audrey White never mentions the six bags Baron who was questioned repeatedly exchanged several letters with Harry
1:14:03
Livingstone never mentions the six bags um so it had if it happened it
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happened it had to happen very late and what's interesting about Parkland real quickly is that everybody involved was
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Act was requested to um to produce a after action report so they all
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basically wrote a report gave it to price the administrator this is this is what I did this is what happened that
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day basic stuff and um again in that report they never
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mention um anything about the six bags they did say that when the body was all
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done and put in the casket they said everybody left tr